Prediction Predict end of 2015 position finish For Geelong

Select predicted finish at end of 2015 season for Geelong.

  • 1st

    Votes: 12 16.4%
  • 2nd

    Votes: 3 4.1%
  • 3-4

    Votes: 23 31.5%
  • 5-8

    Votes: 32 43.8%
  • 9-12 (doomsayers out in force)

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • 13-16 (doomsayers right - everyone retire!)

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • Total voters
    73
  • Poll closed .

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I'm on the 5th-8th wagon too. Age profile still NQR, not enough midfield quality, suspect rucks, suspect gameplan IMO. More to the point, at least three teams are better than us with two others probably too.
 

vinum coupe

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It's all gameplan and team selection for me CE

I want to see it. I'm fine with the list.
 
Mar 6, 2014
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If you look again, you'll see that I commented only on his claim that "Rest of comp will also improve 10-20%".
Just had a thought, Fred- if the rest of the comp ALSO improves 10-20% (guess that means the Cats included), that leaves us finishing 3rd and dropping both finals. Groundhog Day! Damn!
Makes you wonder if we should all just give it up ;)
 

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It's all gameplan and team selection for me CE

I want to see it. I'm fine with the list.
I reckon a flag with our list age profile happens once every 20 years or so. Very unlikely. Other issues just compound it.
 
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Just had a thought, Fred- if the rest of the comp ALSO improves 10-20% (guess that means the Cats included), that leaves us finishing 3rd and dropping both finals. Groundhog Day! Damn!
Makes you wonder if we should all just give it up ;)

It also means that if it's true every year, then this season Hawthorn will be twice as good as they were in 2008. :rolleyes:
 
oh hell. I wasn't talking flag.

I'm 45. I'll be surprised if I see another.
Haha. I'm still greedy from the glow of recent successes.

I think we are on the right path list-wise, but will need to make good list decisions in the next few years and land at least 2-3 good trades or FAs.

Then I think we will need to uncover some more dynamism in the gameplan which is too predictable and easy to play against right now.

If that all happens I see us potentially being back in the frame in a few years.
 

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It also means that if it's true every year, then this season Hawthorn will be twice as good as they were in 2008. :rolleyes:

I dont want to be a smart alec Fred - but the current Hawthorn team IS A FAR SUPERIOR UNIT to their 2008 team - thats Geelongs and the Rest of the Comps main problem

They had blokes like Osborne Bateman Ellis - they were ordinary players - they were weak in the ruck - and Croad broke his foot - Campbell Brown who is a CollingwoOd 6 footer at best - was opposed to Mooney in parts of the 2nd half- giving away about 5 inches

You look who theve added - Lake - an All Australian fullback at the Dogs - and know a Norm Smith medalist - Burgoyne - i think it would be fair to say - he is a genuine superstar Hill - his run and carry - Isaac Smith - perfect modern day footballer- quick and a thumping kick

Breust - comparing him to Osborne is a joke - one is a specialist class half forward flanker - all Osborne brought to the table was a bit of dirt and knuckle

They are now much stronger in the ruck - theve 3 to pick from - both Hale and MCeVOY even played games in their seconds last year- Stratton is a good player - so is that other HBF - whos got the unusual kicking action

Hawthorn have lifted the bar - the standard - so has Port Adelaide ( if they can mantain last years overall performance ) - the other teams your correct havent
 
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I dont want to be a smart alec Fred - but the current Hawthorn team IS A FAR SUPERIOR UNIT to their 2008 team - thats Geelongs and the Rest of the Comps main problem

They had blokes like Osborne Bateman Ellis - they were ordinary players - they were weak in the ruck - and Croad broke his foot - Campbell Brown who is a CollingwoOd 6 footer at best - was opposed to Mooney in parts of the 2nd half- giving away about 5 inches

You look who theve added - Lake - an All Australian fullback at the Dogs - and know a Norm Smith medalist - Burgoyne - i think it would be fair to say - he is a genuine superstar Hill - his run and carry - Isaac Smith - perfect modern day footballer- quick and a thumping kick

Breust - comparing him to Osborne is a joke - one is a specialist class half forward flanker - all Osborne brought to the table was a bit of dirt and knuckle

They are now much stronger in the ruck - theve 3 to pick from - both Hale and MCeVOY even played games in their seconds last year- Stratton is a good player - so is that other HBF - whos got the unusual kicking action

Hawthorn have lifted the bar - the standard - so has Port Adelaide ( if they can mantain last years overall performance ) - the other teams your correct havent
Gunston as well.
 

Lana

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I dont want to be a smart alec Fred - but the current Hawthorn team IS A FAR SUPERIOR UNIT to their 2008 team - thats Geelongs and the Rest of the Comps main problem

They had blokes like Osborne Bateman Ellis - they were ordinary players - they were weak in the ruck - and Croad broke his foot - Campbell Brown who is a CollingwoOd 6 footer at best - was opposed to Mooney in parts of the 2nd half- giving away about 5 inches

You look who theve added - Lake - an All Australian fullback at the Dogs - and know a Norm Smith medalist - Burgoyne - i think it would be fair to say - he is a genuine superstar Hill - his run and carry - Isaac Smith - perfect modern day footballer- quick and a thumping kick

Breust - comparing him to Osborne is a joke - one is a specialist class half forward flanker - all Osborne brought to the table was a bit of dirt and knuckle

They are now much stronger in the ruck - theve 3 to pick from - both Hale and MCeVOY even played games in their seconds last year- Stratton is a good player - so is that other HBF - whos got the unusual kicking action

Hawthorn have lifted the bar - the standard - so has Port Adelaide ( if they can mantain last years overall performance ) - the other teams your correct havent

The analysis is 100% spot on but there are 22 games between now and finals. A lot can happen between now and then. The supposed holes in our ist might be closed off by improvements to our game plan and players while the opposite could happen to them. Like us they also have a lot of aging players especially in there back-line (sounds familiar) and the fall can come quick with players of that age. They only have one true KPF in there 22 in Roughead, if he goes down there entire forward setup will suffer. There outside game is second to none, I don't think we have the speedy players to match them in that regard but I think that we have the cattle to beat them around the stoppages and in the air. Focus on what makes us strong and avoid playing there type of football.
 
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Nov 12, 2002
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The analysis is 100% spot on but there are 22 games between now and finals. A lot can happen between now and then. The supposed holes in our ist might be closed off by improvements to our game plan and players while the opposite could happen to them. Like us they also have a lot of aging players especially in there back-line (sounds familiar) and the fall can come quick with players of that age. They only have one true KPF in there 22 in Roughead, if he goes down there entire forward setup will suffer. There outside game is second to none, I don't think we have the speedy players to match them in that regard but I think that we have the cattle to beat them around the stoppages and in the air. Focus on what makes us strong and avoid playing there type of football.

Exactly. I hope at the very least they decide to do one thing; maximise our strengths, and minimise our weaknesses. The absolute first thing I'd do is analysis the list, and work out which players provide the most problems for the opposition.
 

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vinum coupe and catempire I think the age and tactics issues you are discussing are interlinked. I think some of our older players lack the discipline to implement the sort of tactical tweaks needed. I just don't believe they are hungry enough to learn the game again. I think that is natural after the success they have had. It is easy to say, 'well Hawthorn have done it' but lets see if they can back it up again this year after their players won their third.

Scott has a pretty tough job. I am losing a little bit of confidence in him, but I don't think he is to blame for some of the play that is just ingrained in our senior players DNA. It was successful for them (and is still largely succesful in H+A), they just dont believe they have to change.

The tactical discipline Hawthorn showed in that first final, against our reliance on brilliant individualism was so startling.
 
Nov 12, 2002
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vinum coupe and catempire I think the age and tactics issues you are discussing are interlinked. I think some of our older players lack the discipline to implement the sort of tactical tweaks needed. I just don't believe they are hungry enough to learn the game again. I think that is natural after the success they have had. It is easy to say, 'well Hawthorn have done it' but lets see if they can back it up again this year after their players won their third.

Scott has a pretty tough job. I am losing a little bit of confidence in him, but I don't think he is to blame for some of the play that is just ingrained in our senior players DNA. It was successful for them (and is still largely succesful in H+A), they just dont believe they have to change.

The tactical discipline Hawthorn showed in that first final, against our reliance on brilliant individualism was so startling.

Agree it's a tough job, but if players can't or won't change, that's absolutely the senior coach's responsibility. He picks the team; if a young player doesn't follow team instructions he'd be out, I fail to see why a senior player should be treated differently. If you don't have players that will play the game style you like, then get ones who will.
 
vinum coupe and catempire I think the age and tactics issues you are discussing are interlinked. I think some of our older players lack the discipline to implement the sort of tactical tweaks needed. I just don't believe they are hungry enough to learn the game again. I think that is natural after the success they have had. It is easy to say, 'well Hawthorn have done it' but lets see if they can back it up again this year after their players won their third.

Scott has a pretty tough job. I am losing a little bit of confidence in him, but I don't think he is to blame for some of the play that is just ingrained in our senior players DNA. It was successful for them (and is still largely succesful in H+A), they just dont believe they have to change.

The tactical discipline Hawthorn showed in that first final, against our reliance on brilliant individualism was so startling.
Yeah, agree with that. I think it's also that most game plans at their core are about how you move the ball through the midfield and from stoppages. Because our midfield is skewed in age profile and lacks 1-2 class ball winners we find ourselves going to this 'rebound' or 'slingshot' game style which doesn't rely on winning the ball at contests. It is a B-grade plan that won't win a flag but it can't change until we get the cattle in the guts.
 

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Come on guys. What's with all the pessimism. Preseason is the time to be wildly optimistic so here goes. We'll win the premiership.

Ok we might not win the premiership but this is the first season since 2010 that I've thought that we're actually a chance at this time of year. 2011 we were cooked and had no Gazza, 2012 we'd lost too many good players, 2013 and 2014 just too many holes to fill. But this year:

We should realistically improve on last year. There really aren't many places we should get worse and there's plenty of reasons to think we can improve. We had 3 huge issues last year:

1) No help for Hawkins
2) Poor rucks particularly in finals
3) A young and inexperienced midfield

If Clark stays fit number 1 (or number 2 if we play him in the ruck) goes from a big weakness to a big strength. He's a gun pure and simple. With the addition of Stanley as well as an extra season into Walker, Kersten and Simpson there's every reason to think that both our ruck and key forward setup will be vastly superior this year compared to last year.

Number 3 is the big one though. Last year we relied a huge amount on Duncan, Guthrie, Caddy and Horlin-Smith. They all showed a bit but apart from Duncan none of them gave us consistent quality. There's every reason to expect that the other 3 should step up significantly this year. Add in Johnson, who didn't fire a shot in finals last year and Bartel, who won't have to play forward with Clark coming in and suddenly our midfield goes from being very thin to potentially being a strength. If Bartel and Kelly run through midfield, Johnson stays fit and the 4 younger players step up suddenly we go from having a weak midfield to having great depth and quality.

Our backline has been a strength of ours for a decade and nothing's changed this year. Taylor, Lonergan and Rivers is still the best group of key defenders in the league and Enright and Mackie are still quality. They'll find it miles easier with a midfield in front of them that can actually win some clearances and contested ball.

I don't really know why but people seem to be assuming our finals exit from last year is the new normal. We were injury riddled and beaten up in a way I've never seen a finals team in recent years. Add in a quality second forward, a fit ruckman, 2 gun contested mids (SJ from injury and Bartel from the forward line) and some improvement from our youngsters and suddenly we're a much different proposition.
 
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