Priority Pick And Other Assistance

I like the arguement against us of we have ourselves to blame. Despite the homesickness and getting reemed at the trade table.. didnt Carlton get a few PP's after being bottom 4 for awhile.. because they got stripped of draft picks... for salary cap breaches. Im sorry, isnt that self inflicted?
 
Oct 13, 2001
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I like the arguement against us of we have ourselves to blame. Despite the homesickness and getting reemed at the trade table.. didnt Carlton get a few PP's after being bottom 4 for awhile.. because they got stripped of draft picks... for salary cap breaches. Im sorry, isnt that self inflicted?

Let's own up to tanking. Even if we're not.

The AFL can fine us a gazillion dollars that we don't have for not tanking.

Then when they see what an awful state we're in, they can give us a few PP's to help us out.

Easy.
 
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Albi_Mangler

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Only explanation for lethals comments are that we never seriously thought a PP was a chance.

Possibly saving his "Lions cap" for the bigger battle ahead, trying to avoid another serious reaming at the trade table. Starting to really worry that Carlton will tank to the spoon and take aish through the psd.
 

bato

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Just posted the following on the AFL board priority pick thread:

Sick of people making anecdotal / misinformed comparisons. So I decided to do a comparisons of performance across the competition from 2005 to 2015 in the table attached below.

Yep I chose 2005 because that is the year the Lions decade-plus of woes started, but if you are really that interested feel free to cut the stats anyway you like. By the way if you just do the last 6 years instead of the last 11, the Lions are even closer to Melbourne in terms of poor performance.

158169_7d7aa9421cdf74121ca75694f667365d.jpg

The ladder position is from the end of the home and away season each year (end of the year after the finals would have been better, but it is not easy to get quickly). The average is the average ladder position over the last 11 years (2015 is obviously just up to the end of round 18).

Hopefully the rest are obvious. I tried to work out the priority picks from the old Big Footy thread and Footywire - hopefully they are reasonably accurate, but let me know if you think I have got it wrong (especially if any were traded away from their original Club, like I think happened in 2011). I started the priority pick count from the 2004 draft given that was used for the 2005 season.

Obviously on-field performance shouldn't be the only thing to be compared. If I had the time / info I would love to compare financial performance of the different clubs over the same period (I know Brisbane's cumulative losses must be close to the $10m mark); perhaps top 10 draft picks; net young players that have left to go to other clubs; net experienced players that have gone to other clubs; AFL distributions; membership; Friday night games; FTA TV games in the big footy markets; etc. etc. etc.

Anyway, it seems pretty clear that Melbourne and Brisbane are the worst performing clubs over the last decade or so (GWS and GC are obviously special cases). In that time Melbourne have received 2 start of 1st round priority picks to our none. They also probably would have got another one if it weren't for their tanking saga. The next worst performing club behind the Lions is Carlton - they have also had 2 start of 1st round priority picks.

Don't get me wrong - previous Lions administrations share probably about half of the blame for what has happened since our golden years. But wouldn't the same be said for all clubs - including ones that received previous priority picks (including the Hawks by the way, who got 2 by playing the kids when Clarkson first came in).

And a priority pick won't fix our problems - it is clear our underlying problem is that any club in a non-football state will struggle immensely without significant ongoing concessions. In recent times the Lions have been the only club in the non-footy states to have no real concessions (beyond being saved from bankruptcy).

What has resulted is a downward spiral on-field, the Club losing all of its money and going significantly into debt - with only the backing of the AFL saving us from being bankrupt. Not to mention having the worst training facilities in the League.

It doesn't matter to me whether other club supporters care or not about this predicament - all that matters is how to fix it going forward. Troll all you like, but deep down most people know there is an extremely good case for the AFL to help the Lions. A priority pick unfortunately would be no panacea - it won't be an ongoing fix, but it will help to start to build some confidence in the Club.
Just wondering, the graph says the Lions have had an end of first round priority pick. Which year was this and who was it?
 
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I've personally got no problem with Leigh essentially saying we don't need one. He's always been someone to be very straight forward and honest with his opinions. Tend to agree with him.

Retention is one of our many glaring issues, not actually identifying talent. We've drafted some good players, just have not been able to keep them for a host of reasons.

Development and retention our main issues. Along with being financially screwed, having poor facilities and bad management for years.

Priority pick would be extremely beneficial and we'd have a better case than most, but it's far from essential. I'd much rather the league help us a hell of a lot more off the field than give us a priority pick.
 

James North

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I've personally got no problem with Leigh essentially saying we don't need one. He's always been someone to be very straight forward and honest with his opinions. Tend to agree with him.

Retention is one of our many glaring issues, not actually identifying talent. We've drafted some good players, just have not been able to keep them for a host of reasons.

Development and retention our main issues. Along with being financially screwed, having poor facilities and bad management for years.

Priority pick would be extremely beneficial and we'd have a better case than most, but it's far from essential. I'd much rather the league help us a hell of a lot more off the field than give us a priority pick.

It goes some way to help retention if we use it on an Academy player, I think. That would be where it could be very useful.
 
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It goes some way to help retention if we use it on an Academy player, I think. That would be where it could be very useful.

Certainly. Would have to be an end of first round pick for that to work I'd think. An conditional end of first round Priority Pick that must either be traded for an experienced player(over 100 games for arguments sake) or used to draft and academy player is probably more sensible than a start of round one PP.
 
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It goes some way to help retention if we use it on an Academy player, I think. That would be where it could be very useful.


I haven't really researched the new bidding system so don't have a mathematical understanding of it.

But from a reading of previous posts on the subject, I get the impression that without some kind of Priority or Compensation pick, we may have trouble in landing both Hipwood and Keays.

Is that right?
 
Depends how much we have to pay. Someone will leave at the end of the year, be it Aish, Martin or Bergs, and what we get in return (assuming pick) will probably pay for 1 of them. Our 2nd round pick and maybe pushing our third pick back should be enough for the other.

Even without getting anything extra we can probably still get both, it would just wipe out the rest of our picks.
 

WA Lion

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I haven't really researched the new bidding system so don't have a mathematical understanding of it.

But from a reading of previous posts on the subject, I get the impression that without some kind of Priority or Compensation pick, we may have trouble in landing both Hipwood and Keays.

Is that right?
It does genuinely depend on what is bid for them, and whether we value them so highly that we are prepared to carry a points deficit in to next year and risk having our 1st round pick pushed back. For what my opinion is worth, I doubt the club would be willing to carry over a deficit.

If for instance one of them is bid on around 10 and the other around 20, we should be ok (without delving in to the whole complex points value system!) We wouldn't probably have any picks after that though

If they are both bid on around the 10 and 11 mark then things become a bit more tricky!
 
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It does genuinely depend on what is bid for them, and whether we value them so highly that we are prepared to carry a points deficit in to next year and risk having our 1st round pick pushed back. For what my opinion is worth, I doubt the club would be willing to carry over a deficit.

If for instance one of them is bid on around 10 and the other around 20, we should be ok (without delving in to the whole complex points value system!) We wouldn't probably have any picks after that though

If they are both bid on around the 10 and 11 mark then things become a bit more tricky!


OK.

Thanks. I get the general idea.

It's like most things in life I guess. There's no simple cut and dried answer.
 

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This was a compensation pick at number 30 (It was 29 at the time of trade).

The 2011 draft is one that troubled me because the sides with the priority picks were not the sides that finished in the bottom 3 spots on the ladder - the Lions, Port and Gold Coast all won 4 games all less, yet the end of first round priority picks went to Adelaide, Freo and West Coast. See the following:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2011&t=N&s=P

I assume all 3 of the end of first round priority picks were traded to these clubs from the Lions, Port and GC respectively. Can anyone confirm that?
 
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To be honest I don't think we should get a priority pick directly after our first rounder mainly because I don't think they should exist in the AFL anymore. Perhaps an end of first round draft priority pick for clubs that are really struggling but not directly after your first pick which would always be in the top 2 or 3 for you to warrant getting one. In saying all that I could definitely live with the AFL disguising one in the form of Leuy compo;)

As a club going through a rebuild it really has been the perfect storm in terms of it being an absolute disaster. First of all we finish bottom 4 in consecutive years which happened to coincide with the new expansion teams coming in which meant we missed out on the elite talent of the draft such as Swallow, Bennell, Patton, Shiel, Trealor ect. and then we of course had the exodus at the end of 2013. The combination of these two things has seriously screwed the club over and if the club was to make a play for a PP that should be the angle they approach the AFL with.
 
The 2011 draft is one that troubled me because the sides with the priority picks were not the sides that finished in the bottom 3 spots on the ladder - the Lions, Port and Gold Coast all won 4 games all less, yet the end of first round priority picks went to Adelaide, Freo and West Coast. See the following:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2011&t=N&s=P

I assume all 3 of the end of first round priority picks were traded to these clubs from the Lions, Port and GC respectively. Can anyone confirm that?
A little confusing but what happened I think was that we traded our pick to Hawthorn for Lisle who traded it on to Freo in a swap of picks, Port traded theirs to West Coast as part of the Brad Ebert deal and GC traded theirs to Adelaide in a swap of picks.

No doubt dlanod can correct any major errors.
 

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I have updated the 2005-15 table to fix a couple of problems with the priority picks (Melbourne only got one start of first round picks in the period I looked at not 2; I also missed Port's end of first round pick):

AFL 2005-2015.jpg


I have also done the same table for 2010-2015. Note with both the draft periods are for a year earlier given for instance the 2004 draft picks could play from 2005 and the 2009 draft picks could play from 2010.

AFL 2010-2015.jpg
 

Experimental

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I personally hope Brisbane does get a priority pick, because it's good for footy in QLD.

But does anyone else feel that had Beams not been in the mix at the end of last season that the Lions season would have been a lot different this year?

Picks 5 and 25, plus Jack Crisp is a huge price to pay for one midfielder. I do realise that Beams is a fantastic player, and being a Queenslander himself really aids the grassroots level footy here, but imagine what could have happened with those picks.

The Lions likely would have taken Peter Wright at pick 5, and could have picked up Touk Miller with pick 25. A key forward and a gun midfielder. Plus Crisp would have been retained.

Again, I hope that Brisbane does get a PP, but I can't help but think that it's not just bad luck that has the Lions in such a mess - it's piss poor management and stupid decisions over a long period of time.
 
I personally hope Brisbane does get a priority pick, because it's good for footy in QLD.

But does anyone else feel that had Beams not been in the mix at the end of last season that the Lions season would have been a lot different this year?

Picks 5 and 25, plus Jack Crisp is a huge price to pay for one midfielder. I do realise that Beams is a fantastic player, and being a Queenslander himself really aids the grassroots level footy here, but imagine what could have happened with those picks.

The Lions likely would have taken Peter Wright at pick 5, and could have picked up Touk Miller with pick 25. A key forward and a gun midfielder. Plus Crisp would have been retained.

Again, I hope that Brisbane does get a PP, but I can't help but think that it's not just bad luck that has the Lions in such a mess - it's piss poor management and stupid decisions over a long period of time.

Really? Clearly you haven't been watching Brisbane games much this year. Beams had been worth every cent we paid for him and more. Would hate to think the situation we would have been in had one of Crisp or Miller been in the centre instead of him this year. As for Wright, given he's only played 3 games in a side that could barely scrape together a 22 at times this season I seriously doubt he would have provided much more than what our own infant KPP's have provided this year.

Miller has played above expectations this year and has been a good player no doubt, but lets not start calling a guy a gun after less than 1 season of AFL. As for Crisp he's been a very good complementary mid this year and played his role well but I wonder how effective he would have been had Pendelbury and Swan/Adams were missing for large chunks of the season. Don't think he would have been able to carry a midfield on his own somehow.
 

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Really? Clearly you haven't been watching Brisbane games much this year. Beams had been worth every cent we paid for him and more. Would hate to think the situation we would have been in had one of Crisp or Miller been in the centre instead of him this year. As for Wright, given he's only played 3 games in a side that could barely scrape together a 22 at times this season I seriously doubt he would have provided much more than what our own infant KPP's have provided this year.
I watch every Lions game, and I know how good he is, but that isn't my point. It's sacrificing a pick 5, a pick 25, and a player in return for one guy, then crying for a priority pick because there's not enough top draft talent on the roster.

As for Wright, he's no different from McCartin at St Kilda. And he's certainly no different from what Schache will be if the Lions end up with him. There are many people on this board who think drafting Schache will bring instant success, but it won't. He'll struggle at AFL level just as many other young key forwards do. I'm sure you're aware that a first year key forward doesn't just slot into the side, but is an investment into the future of a club.

Again, I'm not hating on Beams, just pointing out how silly is sounds on paper.
 
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I watch every Lions game, and I know how good he is, but that isn't my point. It's sacrificing a pick 5, a pick 25, and a player in return for one guy, then crying for a priority pick because there's not enough top draft talent on the roster.

As for Wright, he's no different from McCartin at St Kilda. And he's certainly no different from what Schache will be if the Lions end up with him. There are many people on this board who think drafting Schache will bring instant success, but it won't. He'll struggle at AFL level just as many other young key forwards do. I'm sure you're aware that a first year key forward doesn't just slot into the side, but is an investment into the future of a club.

Again, I'm not hating on Beams, just pointing out how silly is sounds on paper.
I haven't seen anyone sharing this point of view let alone "many people":confused:
 
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