New academy bidding system

[Ironmonger]

Father Sons are there to keep a bit of heart and loyalty in a sport that is increasingly becoming plastic and commercial

Academy's are commercial and plastic trying to support teams that can't support themselves

That seems like a reason to allow clubs the opportunity to pay full value for father/son selections if they value traditionalism, but I don't see why it entitles anyone to a discount on that full value price.

Anyway, you've come here to make a point and you've made it.

 

[Hornet1]

Its a bit rich telling us we can't support ourselves when you had a billionaire save your club from becoming bankrupt. And your still s**t...

 

[Groo2]

I don't, not recently. But they were given 3 premierships with their extra salary cap room in the early 2000's the same way Sydney has been the last few years.

Well if we are talking salary caps, I don't suppose you are going to take the high moral ground and suggest Carlton give back the '95 flag?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Oops guys I am really sorry I did not realize this was the Brisbane board

I'm on Tapatalk and was just looking for the general thread

Sorry boys

 

[POBT]

Father Sons are there to keep a bit of heart and loyalty in a sport that is increasingly becoming plastic and commercial

Academy's are commercial and plastic trying to support teams that can't support themselves

Agree on the latter. We can't support ourselves. More than happy to admit it. More than happy to admit that our continued existence is due to commercial reasons - namely, the money that is generated because of an 18 team comp that has representation in the largest states. Happy to admit that Brisbane will always survive in a national competition because you can't have the third largest city in the country unrepresented.

And, given how strategically important it is to have competitive teams in the expansion states, I'm more than happy for my club to get a small, occasional free kick because we're spending money in developing the game, which in turn supports a commercial outcome for the AFL.

It is all a money game, at the end of the day. Your club knows this most of all, given your exceptional success when money could buy flags and the comparative lack of success when the playing field was somewhat more even.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Well if we are talking salary caps, I don't suppose you are going to take the high moral ground and suggest Carlton give back the '95 flag?

Essendon is the only club to have breached the salary cap in a premiership winning year

 

[POBT]

Essendon is the only club to have breached the salary cap in a premiership winning year

Your apology becomes a little hollow when you keep engaging on this board.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Your apology becomes a little hollow when you keep engaging on this board.

Well I wasn't going to let that slide? And can't we all come together to have a dig at the doping, cheating scum?

 

[Skoob]

Lack of understanding? What is there to understand?

Looks like you've answered you're own question;

Adelaide and Perth don't get academies, St Kilda and Western Bulldogs don't have Academy's

Academy's should be in every state to develop players for the best possible draft by all teams. Not to benefit Sydney and Qlnd

Hey, did you know that Australian football is the dominant code in SA & WA?
Did you know that St Kilda & Footscray are in Melbourne?
Did you also know that Qld & NSW continue to lose good players to those other football states and how important it is for us to develop our own 'home state' players?
Yeah, I'd say you've displayed a lack of understanding.

As for thinking we could bond over a distaste for Essendon, you overestimate our affection for your mob.

 

[Groo2]

Well I wasn't going to let that slide? And can't we all come together to have a dig at the doping, cheating scum?

Sorry, I'm not got to let you not let it slide. What world do you live in that you think Carlton were under the cap in '95. The AFL already got them for '98 to 2001, that was the only reason they were not scrutinized further. The team I originally supported are no longer in the comp because they could not compete financially against the powerful clubs at the time such as Carlton and the bombers.

 

[Panthera]

Oops guys I am really sorry I did not realize this was the Brisbane board

I'm on Tapatalk and was just looking for the general thread

Sorry boys

Not a problem - and good luck with starting prep tomorrow bud

 

[Dom PC]

I don't, not recently. But they were given 3 premierships with their extra salary cap room in the early 2000's the same way Sydney has been the last few years. The same as Sydney is now they are getting less direct help but more help in other areas such as the Academy

I just don't agree with the Academy's what so ever. I like how they work, but I don't think any team should get first dibs on them. They should be there to develop players for the best of the competition not those state teams.

Go read the rule book champ... you have essentially told the whole lions board you have NFI

 

[Viceregal]

When it comes to points matched to salary paid - wouldn't the fact that most early picks were taken by clubs that sucked who still had to pay the same salary cap out and (since they suck) so tended to overpay what players they had that they thought had potential (and keep them playing where they are) kind of inflate the value of the pick 1 2 etc?

 

[whatboutbob]

When it comes to points matched to salary paid - wouldn't the fact that most early picks were taken by clubs that sucked who still had to pay the same salary cap out and (since they suck) so tended to overpay what players they had that they thought had potential (and keep them playing where they are) kind of inflate the value of the pick 1 2 etc?

That's a really, really good point.

 

[GingerGreatness]

Hammo off a long run up and... bang!

THE AFL has sent Brisbane and the Gold Coast Suns to conquer the new world and armed them only with toy guns.

Queensland’s two clubs along with the Swans and GWS are on the frontline of the AFL’s code-war. Yet the game’s rulers refuse to arm them adequately because of the howls of outrage from the traditional states.

The Lions and Suns have threatened to shut down their talent academies — which were designed to lure the best young athletes away from the rugby codes and other traditional Queensland sports — if the AFL pushes through new rules that increase the draft value of players they have developed.

Why should cash-strapped clubs invest money in programs that don’t offer them an advantage? Especially when you could argue the academies are more critical to the AFL than the clubs.

 

[Caiphus]

Hammo off a long run up and... bang!

At the end of day this is an ideological battle between socialism and the free-market that is only going to end up stacking the deck for the haves to maintain the status quo. The people arguing against any special consideration for Northern academies probably believe in trickle-down economics too.

 

[jackess]

Hammo off a long run up and... bang!

Not sure he's the best spokesman for our plight

 

[Ruse]

How about the AFL keep things simple.

1 f/s or academy player per round if 2 players get bid on the same round then the club can only choose to keep 1 and let the other player go to the club that bid.

If a rival club bid a pick in the top 5 for an academy or f/s pick then the club must use it's 1st and 2nd round pick to retain the academy player.

There is still an advantage to running an academy system and spending $800k on it but it's slightly more fair for everyone.

 

[whatboutbob]

How about the AFL keep things simple.

1 f/s or academy player per round if 2 players get bid on the same round then the club can only choose to keep 1 and let the other player go to the club that bid.

If a rival club bid a pick in the top 5 for an academy or f/s pick then the club must use it's 1st and 2nd round pick to retain the academy player.

There is still an advantage to running an academy system and spending $800k on it but it's slightly more fair for everyone.

At the risk of adding a layer of complexity to a simple solution, perhaps if they want the second player from the same round then the club could choose to forego that corresponding pick from the following year.

It doesn't resolve the "bookend" issue that has Eddie so up in arms though - gettinga pick 1 star with potentially pick 18.

 

[PTizzle]

Reeks of something prepared extremely hastily so as to have it in place for the 2015 draft. Far from elegant and the only real outcome I can see is appeasing Southern clubs somewhat while making clubs like Sydney and ourselves question the level of investment into our academies.

I'd be happy for academy picks to become a bit more expensive to address any potential future imbalance but this just seems messy. Although I guess nobody is surprised on that front

 

[Billy Puller]

Well I wasn't going to let that slide? And can't we all come together to have a dig at the doping, cheating scum?

But of pot calling the kettle black right there. Or have you forgotten so quickly what your club did.

 

[Ironmonger]

Not sure he's the best spokesman for our plight

Yep. It's not a great article.

This line struck me:

Given there is usually only between 90 and 100 players from the northern states on AFL lists,

Is that correct? I thought it was less than that.

 

[dlanod]

Yep. It's not a great article.

This line struck me:



Is that correct? I thought it was less than that.

It was between 80 and 100 for 2009 through 2012, so it doesn't sound unreasonable:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/complete-list-of-50-nsw-afl-listed-players.968118/

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/complete-list-of-45-queensland-afl-listed-players.968119/

 

[winged1]

I did a count last year on QLD players if we had a state or origin and came up to over 40, which I was surprised at. Lots of ruckmen on lists around the place.

 

[Judge]

At the risk of adding a layer of complexity to a simple solution, perhaps if they want the second player from the same round then the club could choose to forego that corresponding pick from the following year.

It doesn't resolve the "bookend" issue that has Eddie so up in arms though - getting a pick 1 star with potentially pick 18.

It seems to me, and no doubt many others, that the fortuitous availability of Heeney and Mills in successive years, combined with Sydney's ongoing tenure near the top of the ladder, are the main drivers of the new system, leaving McGuire's whinging aside.

If neither of those kids was highly rated, do you think the possibility of us getting someone like Keays a bit cheaply would be sufficient to trigger such a drastic over-reaction? Sure, McGuire and some others would fire up about the iniquity/inequity of the academy system, but I highly doubt that things would change in that instance.

I think that a system along the lines suggested by Ruse and Bob above could reasonably address any unfairness on the very rare occasions that a NSW or Qld academy produced more than 1 top 10 pick in a single year, or two in successive years. It's not like it's happened before, or that there's any sign of it happening again any time soon.