Put a line through Freo?

[JeffDunne]

I'm suggesting that for one reason or another most teams have slip ups during a season, no matter how good they are.

Having seen the way this team generally bounces back from poor performances under Lyon I'm prepared to write this game off as an inexplicable aberration at this stage.

Yeah but this wasn't a slip up.

Geelong almost had a slip up. Port too. But both had senior players that pulled them over the line.

Freo were comprehensively smashed. Not only that, when they had a chance to reverse the trend, they got even more comprehensively smashed. The 3rd quarter stats differential was quite amazing for any game let alone 18th against 2nd. With a bit more polish we'd have put up 10 goals in a quarter! We've been struggling to do that in most games.

Something more than apathy was on display.

 

[Cobbler]

How early the fruit is falling this season? You are suffering cognitive dissonance, you only wish to believe what you WANT to believe irrespective of the information presented in front of you, so to make your case stand out and look more tangible you wish to omit the previous 7 or 8 years of finals form which is really the bench mark and just go for the past 2 seasons which suits your argument better? I wonder how those Hawthorn players of the 80's felt about playing 7 Grand Finals in a row just to find out only the previous 2 counted as experience? I wonder how Geelong feel about 2011 after losing the best player in the competition and pretty much winning the flag with years of EXPERIENCE? You are clearly avoiding all relevant information contrary to Fremantle's cause. I can see the frustration setting in from here, after this shock Saints loss Dockers fans have suddenly realised they may very well be the bridesmaids again in 2014.....that's if they even make the top 4? Teams like Geelong, Hawthorn and the Swans don't have to prove a goddam thing, they all have plenty of silverware on show.

Maybe Geelong just thought they'd get the job done in 2012 against Fremantle because of all that experience. What were they down at quarter time? 40 or so. I can't believe Fremantle had the audacity to even turn up with no finals experience and years of mediocrity to play the EXPERIENCED sure things in Geelong.

But they learnt their lesson didn't they. The following year Geelong finished 2nd and earnt a home final against an interstate side. They wouldn't understimate Fremantle again... no way, they had learnt their lesson and had countless finals EXPERIENCE to see them through... woops they lost!

It's ok they would redeem themselves against the Hawks and up by 20 going into the last quarter those EXPERIENCED heads would prevail and have a chance to beat the poor Dockers... wait one second... they lost! What about all those cool heads and EXPERIENCE as they just bombed it long in the last quarter with plenty of time on the clock. If only they had taken their minds back to 2007-2011 and called on all that EXPERIENCE, they have been through to the GF.

 

[Runk]

If history has taught us anything, which for some it hasn't, anything can happen on Grand Final day. Freo just have to make it now.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Rightly deserved as favourites and very good sides. But to suggest we haven't proven anything in finals I feel is very misleading. Ok we haven't won the ultimate but I don't think you can just suggest Geelong or Hawks don't have to prove anything. Geelong have many new kids and the case could be argued they need to prove something or do they just get mixed in the 2007-2011 era which as I said Fyfe wasn't even playing and Walters was having KFC treats with his buddies Suban and Pearce.

I think it's fair to say that as long as it keeps winning 15+ games every year and making the top four practically every year the current Geelong outfit is a continuation of the team since 2007, at least. Geelong's trough in that period has been a 15 win season and first week exit from the finals in 2012. People are generally happy to say that the current Hawthorn and Sydney teams are continuations of their 2008 and 2005 premiership winning squads and both of those clubs had significantly worse years (and even missed the top eight) over that stretch. Not only that, but both teams actually had worse seasons during their current eras than Geelong's 10-11-1 'full footy department review' season in 2006.

Including 2014, Geelong will have played in finals in 10 of the last 11 seasons. It has played in a preliminary final in 6 of the last 7 seasons. It has won at least one final in 8 of the past 10 seasons. I think it's pretty safe to say that such an extended period of being around the top is unprecedented, in the national competition (North Melbourne from 1993-94 to 2000 is the only run that I think even comes close).

 

[Spoken4]

It's been a long time since i've seen a team show so much disrespect, so much lethargy, such a poor atitiude and general lack of interest in a game of football. The Saints put the Dockers over their knees and spanked them hard......imagine what the Swans will do?

See Sydney vs Geelong if you want a recent example. Or GC vs Geelong for an even more recent one.

Best example of the modern era would be Geelong vs Freo in the 2012 elimination final. Your team turned up thinking they had the game won and it was a mere formality before heading to another grand final birth. Most egg on one team's face for some time, particularly at half time when your coach and players looked completely shell shocked.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Maybe Geelong just thought they'd get the job done in 2012 against Fremantle because of all that experience. What were they down at quarter time? 40 or so. I can't believe Fremantle had the audacity to even turn up with no finals experience and years of mediocrity to play the EXPERIENCED sure things in Geelong.

But they learnt their lesson didn't they. The following year Geelong finished 2nd and earnt a home final against an interstate side. They wouldn't understimate Fremantle again... no way, they had learnt their lesson and had countless finals EXPERIENCE to see them through... woops they lost!

With Hawkins a late withdrawal, it was never going to be easy for the Cats. Even crippled by a bad back, he was the only reasonably consistent tall avenue to goal that season (Podsiadly dropped off significantly in the second half of 2013, culminating in him going goalless in Geelong's last two finals). Some inexplicable selection decisions (Chapman as the substitute in his 250th and Walker coming in for Hawkins, rather than bringing in West - a true ruckman - and moving Vardy to a permanent forward role) didn't help.

It's ok they would redeem themselves against the Hawks and up by 20 going into the last quarter those EXPERIENCED heads would prevail and have a chance to beat the poor Dockers... wait one second... they lost! What about all those cool heads and EXPERIENCE as they just bombed it long in the last quarter with plenty of time on the clock. If only they had taken their minds back to 2007-2011 and called on all that EXPERIENCE, they have been through to the GF.

Geelong was a clear outsider for that game. Few gave the Cats a chance, after struggling to put away a plucky Port Adelaide team at home. 20 points is absolutely nothing these days (teams cut that to practically nothing in about 4-5 minutes, if they get a run on) and considering Hawthorn was primed and rested coming into the match (not to mention that Geelong even having a lead was in no small part due to Hawthorn - especially Mr. Goal Streak himself, Luke Breust - missing several rudimentary chances), a 20 point lead at three quarter time was not much better than level pegging. I said at the time that Geelong needed at least two goals, probably three, to stop Hawthorn from running over the top. The Cats only managed one and that's why Hawthorn made the Grand Final.

 

[Kram]

Lose to Carlton at home and I'll push the panic button.

 

[mike91]

How early the fruit is falling this season? You are suffering cognitive dissonance, you only wish to believe what you WANT to believe irrespective of the information presented in front of you, so to make your case stand out and look more tangible you wish to omit the previous 7 or 8 years of finals form which is really the bench mark and just go for the past 2 seasons which suits your argument better? I wonder how those Hawthorn players of the 80's felt about playing 7 Grand Finals in a row just to find out only the previous 2 counted as experience? I wonder how Geelong feel about 2011 after losing the best player in the competition and pretty much winning the flag with years of EXPERIENCE? You are clearly avoiding all relevant information contrary to Fremantle's cause. I can see the frustration setting in from here, after this shock Saints loss Dockers fans have suddenly realised they may very well be the bridesmaids again in 2014.....that's if they even make the top 4? Teams like Geelong, Hawthorn and the Swans don't have to prove a goddam thing, they all have plenty of silverware on show.

lol. Geelong are no threat to for the flag this year, every top 4 team would be praying for a match against Geelong first week.

 

[JackFlash]

lol. Geelong are no threat to for the flag this year, every top 4 team would be praying for a match against Geelong first week.

I've been saying the same thing all year, we're no better than 5th-8th, but when you win a few flags come back and give me a real serve. The funny thing about this thread is i'm seeing more passion and commitment from the Dockers fans than i saw from the Dockers players the other day, perhaps you should vent your frustration at the coach more than me? Which ever way you want to look at it the Saints scored a hole in one against the Dockers who had everything to play for in this game, unlike last year when Ross the boss pulled out half the side for a rest. If the Dockers miss the top 4 i reckon you have grounds to be banging on the coach's door asking for a "please explain"? No doubt the return of the 'cheesemaker' will make a difference and the Dockers are playing Carlton, so all will be well in dockerland once again by July31st! Until then keep polishing that silverware......

 

[benji2]

I don't think Freo will disrespect Sydney, Hawthorn, Geelong and Port the way they did the Saints. Seems to be a tradition - the Lyon curse? - that the away Saints game is a 'bye' for them.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

lol. Geelong are no threat to for the flag this year, every top 4 team would be praying for a match against Geelong first week.

Fair enough. Would have thought that Fremantle supporters would want to be pumping Geelong's tyres up a bit, since the Round 8 win was by far the Dockers' best of the year (unless you have another nomination?). That game aside, I'm trying to figure out exactly where Freo's outstanding performances have been this season. Because, from here, it looks like that team is pretty much just going, much like Geelong. Except they're expecting premierships, whereas everyone seems to think Geelong is Preliminary Final fodder, at best.

I don't think Freo will disrespect Sydney, Hawthorn, Geelong and Port the way they did the Saints. Seems to be a tradition - the Lyon curse? - that the away Saints game is a 'bye' for them.

A bye? If Port had beaten Melbourne by two more goals, the Dockers would be outside the top four, looking in, as we speak.

 

[The Speaker]

Not bad. Is it that unique though? How many senior games for each?

The overall list balance is. They essentially of two groups of players - 24 or less, and 28+. In between is not much. Some teams would easily be able to fill out a list of 1990-later players, but be lacking in terms of experienced older players. Fremantle is regarded as having one of the oldest lists (which they do) BUT they are not poised to fall into a deep hole for a long period of time, due to these younger players. Not all of them will 'make it', of course, but many of them will or have already. This season is probably Fremantle's last shot for a few years, and then they should be raring to go when some of the younger of these players are hitting 50+ games, and the older ones are around their prime.

B: C. Pearce (78) - A. Pearce (0) - Sutcliffe (40)
HB: Morabito (26) - Smith (1) - Suban (100)
C: Sheridan (19) - Neale (39) - Hill (121)
HF: Simpson (2) - Taberner (8) - Crozier (17)
F: Duffy (0) - Apeness (2) - Walters (45)
R: Clarke (67) - Fyfe (87) - de Boer (111)
I: Menegola (0) - Grey (0) - Hannath (15) - Ballard (0)

E: Moller (1) - Vandeleur (0) - Wood (0)

 

[JackFlash]

It's been a long time since I've see Freo play that badly either, which is why I don't expect to see it again this season.

I like how you're using that one game as our form guide while ignoring the other 16 from this season though. A very convenient sample size for you.

I'm tipping we'll put up a better fight against the Swans than Geelong did. In fact we already have.

One game? It was against St.Kilda who were on the bottom and hadn't won since April! No, the Dockers and Mr Smug came over here thinking they would take a walk in the park and got spanked for it. The Saints played with heart, i saw little of nothing from Fremantle who also had a lot to play for. Yes indeed one game can make all the difference and the other 16 just got washed down the plug hole. If i was Ross Lyon i'd be calling a plumber, they have more than a few leaks!
As i keep saying to you over zealous Dockers fans, vent the anger towards your coach who hasn't got a game plan to counter the Swans. Geelong don't have to prove a thing to me, they are re-building a team, yet remarkably sit 2nd on the ladder nearing the end of July. I would've put quids on that NOT happening pre season, but there you go. I'm not expecting Geelong to win any flag this year, the Hawks have had injuries, we are team building, but what is the Dockers excuse? Have they progressed? Do you really feel confident they are moving toward another Grand Final appearance or will they be the hapless saps who get pulverised by the Swans come the last day in September? Send your rockets flying toward the coach's box and demand some answers there, he's supposed to be 'King' of the coaches isn't he?

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

The overall list balance is. They essentially of two groups of players - 24 or less, and 28+. In between is not much. Some teams would easily be able to fill out a list of 1990-later players, but be lacking in terms of experienced older players. Fremantle is regarded as having one of the oldest lists (which they do) BUT they are not poised to fall into a deep hole for a long period of time, due to these younger players. Not all of them will 'make it', of course, but many of them will or have already. This season is probably Fremantle's last shot for a few years, and then they should be raring to go when some of the younger of these players are hitting 50+ games, and the older ones are around their prime.

B: C. Pearce (78) - A. Pearce (0) - Sutcliffe (40)
HB: Morabito (26) - Smith (1) - Suban (100)
C: Sheridan (19) - Neale (39) - Hill (121)
HF: Simpson (2) - Taberner (8) - Crozier (17)
F: Duffy (0) - Apeness (2) - Walters (45)
R: Clarke (67) - Fyfe (87) - de Boer (111)
I: Menegola (0) - Grey (0) - Hannath (15) - Ballard (0)

E: Moller (1) - Vandeleur (0) - Wood (0)

Not sure I'm following.

To be honest, that sounds almost the same as Geelong, except Geelong's is actually more pronounced. Of the age groups you've mentioned (admittedly, I'll just go by the year of birth for the sake of simplicity), Geelong has six players on its list that were born between 1986-1989 (one of whom, Sheringham, is on the rookie list and a likely delisting at the end of the year). Fremantle has eleven.

Geelong
1981: Enright
1982:
1983: Bartel, Johnson, Kelly
1984: Lonergan, McIntosh, Stokes, Rivers, Mackie
1985:
1986: Taylor
1987:
1988: Hawkins, Selwood, Varcoe, Sheringham
1989: Simpson

Fremantle
1981: McPharlin, Pavlich
1982: Sandilands
1983:
1984: Crowley, Johnson
1985: Duffield, Bradley, Mundy, Sylvia
1986: Dawson, Griffin, D.Pearce, Mzungu
1987: Silvagni, Spurr, Barlow, Ballantyne
1988: Ibbotson, Gumbleton, Mayne
1989:

This was an even bigger issue a few years back, when Geelong barely had any contributors from the 1984-1987 bracket: Ablett had gone, Stokes was really a fringe player, McIntosh and Rivers weren't there (though West was - born in 1987). Funnily enough, the lopsided nature of the age of Geelong's list coincides with the rough age of the players taken in some of the all-time stinker drafts (2003 and 2004).

 

[The Speaker]

Not sure I'm following.

To be honest, that sounds almost the same as Geelong, except Geelong's is actually more pronounced. Of the age groups you've mentioned (admittedly, I'll just go by the year of birth for the sake of simplicity), Geelong has six players on its list that were born between 1986-1989 (one of whom, Sheringham, is on the rookie list and a likely delisting at the end of the year). Fremantle has eleven.

Geelong
1981: Enright
1982:
1983: Bartel, Johnson, Kelly
1984: Lonergan, McIntosh, Stokes, Rivers, Mackie
1985:
1986: Taylor
1987:
1988: Hawkins, Selwood, Varcoe, Sheringham
1989: Simpson

Fremantle
1981: McPharlin, Pavlich
1982: Sandilands
1983:
1984: Crowley, Johnson
1985: Duffield, Bradley, Mundy, Sylvia
1986: Dawson, Griffin, D.Pearce, Mzungu
1987: Silvagni, Spurr, Barlow, Ballantyne
1988: Ibbotson, Gumbleton, Mayne
1989:

This was an even bigger issue a few years back, when Geelong barely had any contributors from the 1984-1987 bracket: Ablett had gone, Stokes was really a fringe player, McIntosh and Rivers weren't there (though West was - born in 1987). Funnily enough, the lopsided nature of the age of Geelong's list coincides with the rough age of the players taken in some of the all-time stinker drafts (2003 and 2004).

All true - although 28+ would include those turning 28 this year, so those born in 86, which makes it five against seven, and clearly distinguishes the older group from 81-86, and the younger group from 90-. Those three years in between are meant to be the absolute prime years for a footballer.

Fremantle has done well with mature age recruits. The reason the 2008 draftees have so many games for Fremantle is that they had to come straight in to the team after being drafted. Most of the older players were traded in or mature age draftees, to ensure that they could make a premiership tilt last year and this year.

Anyway, the whole point of all that was that Fremantle's list is not 'very old'.

 

[falcons2]

Fremantle were the oldest team to play on the weekend. 26 years 9 months.

At a guess I'd say they have just had a big training load in finals preparation and thought the game was won before they played it. Total disrespect for the Saints.

As for Fremantle's born 1990 and on. They would struggle in the VFL.

 

[Wes Tiger]

Going back to the 90's I recall both years WCE won the flag they got absolutely trounced in a few games, granted against better opposition. Absolutely mauled by the Sainters ironically on a wet, mud ridden day down at Moorabin to the tune of 66 points I believe. Held to just 3 goals which is what they kicked down at the Western Oval on another equally abysmal day against Footscray, all 3 coming in the last qtr. Saints and Doggies featured prominently in therace for the 92 flag while this Saints team needs no explanation.

In 94 Hawks beat them by about 12 goals at Subi, then smashed them by 53 down at Waverly. Blues killed them by about 79 too.

Same case for the Premiership Blue Baggers too. In 95 they lost only 2 games, back to back vs the Swannies by about 12 goals then getting drilled by the Saints by 56 the next like West Coast on a wet and miserable day were restricted to just 3 goals. Both the Swans and the Saints didn't play finals that year. Swannies were on the brink of a break through year the next where Plugger and Kelly took them to a Grand Final topping the home and away year.

Good luck losing to the Saints perhaps? Maybe Freo are just s**t.

I still have them in the big dance vs the Swans!

 

[Wes Tiger]

Eventual winners do have their huge losses along the way at times. Kangas in 96 belted by Sydney and WCE, The Crows, Brisbane, Hawks etc. It happens. Usually against good opp not against the bottom team though

 

[PattoMan99]

With Hawkins a late withdrawal, it was never going to be easy for the Cats. Even crippled by a bad back, he was the only reasonably consistent tall avenue to goal that season (Podsiadly dropped off significantly in the second half of 2013, culminating in him going goalless in Geelong's last two finals). Some inexplicable selection decisions (Chapman as the substitute in his 250th and Walker coming in for Hawkins, rather than bringing in West - a true ruckman - and moving Vardy to a permanent forward role) didn't help.



Geelong was a clear outsider for that game. Few gave the Cats a chance, after struggling to put away a plucky Port Adelaide team at home. 20 points is absolutely nothing these days (teams cut that to practically nothing in about 4-5 minutes, if they get a run on) and considering Hawthorn was primed and rested coming into the match (not to mention that Geelong even having a lead was in no small part due to Hawthorn - especially Mr. Goal Streak himself, Luke Breust - missing several rudimentary chances), a 20 point lead at three quarter time was not much better than level pegging. I said at the time that Geelong needed at least two goals, probably three, to stop Hawthorn from running over the top. The Cats only managed one and that's why Hawthorn made the Grand Final.

To be precise, it's 20 points better.

 

[PattoMan99]

pretty much summed it up.
I'd go as far to say that if that team listed were to re-play St Kilda next week, the end result would be a 130 point belting.

With the Saints on the receiving end...

 

[Riccardo11]

So are the Saints excluded from hunger? success? work rate?

Wow, win one game and all of a sudden the Saints are champs. Your mate Billy Longer was right, the scoreboard told the story of that game, but what's the season told you?

Where's your hunger and success been all season? Rock bottom.

Enjoy your win, you played well, but don't start banging on as if Fremantle aren't hungry or are a failure because last I saw Saints were bottom.

Look in the mirror or put the microscope over your side.

St Kilda is rebuilding, and doing so virtually from scratch, as has been admitted since the preseason.

We know where we are, and we know there has been pain this season and there will be more pain ahead, which makes putting your mob to the sword as sweet as any Flag!

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

"Umpires boss Wayne Campbell has admitted the umpires cost Carlton a shot at victory against Geelong in a clash littered with contentious incidents. With the Blues trailing by five points with 35 seconds left, Troy Menzel was collected high 15m in front of goal by Jared Rivers, but wasn’t awarded a free. It was a free kick, Campbell told SEN yesterday."

What a load of wank - you must have missed the countless s**t decisions that went against Geelong.

 

[Spoken4]

What a load of wank - you must have missed the countless s**t decisions that went against Geelong.

Suggest you bring it up with Wayne Campbell. He clearly infers that Carlton should have won the game.

 

[Spoken4]

Fair enough. Would have thought that Fremantle supporters would want to be pumping Geelong's tyres up a bit, since the Round 8 win was by far the Dockers' best of the year (unless you have another nomination?).

Best win? Many would probably say the Collingwood smashing in round 1. Or the Gold Coast one in round 3. I personally rate the obliteration of the Crows followed by the demolition of the Lions (they broke the record for least inside 50s in a game) as they went on to beat North the very next week. I'd put the Geelong win as fifth best for the season.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Freo played very poorly on the weekend, and you would've hoped that the opportunity to take top spot would've been motivation enough - but clearly it wasnt.

I would say that as long as they make top 4 (not garaunteed), then any team (and even moreso - any team coached by Ross Lyon) still has a decent chance. If they are at full strength, and can get back to the intense pressure football that we saw for much of last year, then they can still beat anyone.