R8: Port v Richmond review

[Janus]

What makes Neade and Young - two who struggled in losses themselves this year - a more justified selection than Mitchell or Gray? Moore has played 1 game in a month so I cant see how people could expect him to be gifted a game either.

In any case, these guys are icing. When the cake is going off, any amount of icing isnt going to fix it.

I've never ragged on Mitchell's selection. I know why he was selected.

Gray on the other hand, was so mind boggling baffling that you have to wonder if the selection committee has money on our opposition. He doesn't play that small forward pressure role ever in the SANFL. But hey, lets gift him a game in that role because we don't have anyone else who is worthy of selection even though we've again been smashed around stoppages that aren't in the center. Funny how you label a big mid like Moore icing - I guess Gray's grand total of 2 tackles (even though in your review you reckon he tackled well at times) would be like a sprinkle of icing sugar in comparison.

I don't care how great he is at training, or how good his form is. If he's not being selected as a mid, where his form is actually displayed, then he's as useless as **** on a bull. No one is expecting him to come in and win us games. Who on here has ever said that?? We do, however, expect any changes at the selection table to have a meaningful and noticeable impact on performance, regardless of how well the rest of the team is playing. Otherwise what's the point of changing the team? Young was excellent in his first game. Ah Chee did some nice things as the sub, as did Amon. But Gray? Sorry Macca, you're toeing the company line a bit too much trying to defend this one. I understand the idea behind it, and I like him as much as anyone could like a smallish midfielder, but if Gray isn't out of the team this week, we've obviously decided to tank.

 

[simmo_bc]

although he is a good average player, and Lobbe on paper had better statistics, Maric seemed to have genuine influence over the game yesterday.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I don't expect Gray to win us games, but I don't think it's unfair to expect him to contribute something. Anything.

I think he had a decent smother at one point yesterday, that was the only positive contribution he made. But as for negative contributions? He fumbled repeatedly, he dropped marks he should've taken, he was muscled out of contests, he gave away frees. He only had three kicks all day; one of them went backwards and one of them was out on the full. We would have been better off playing a player down. And the sad thing is that this performance wasn't at all unexpected by anybody outside of the selection committee.

He is a good SANFL player. That's all he is and that's all he ever will be. Young, Moore, Neade and Ah Chee all have the attributes to potentially be AFL quality players. Sam Gray being (arguably) in slightly better form playing a completely different role in a completely different competition doesn't change that.

 

[ab56452001]

whilst I am a fan, funny how Young's form dipped as soon as they did the spread about him in the paper after the Hawks game.

My problem with Gray is that he is 176cm and at that height you have to be able to offer a lot because you don't provide a lot of flexibility to the team in a plan B scenario. I see him as a 'too good for SANFL but not quite good enough for the AFL' player.

Neade is in the same boat as Gray however atleast has x-factor but even then, he'll always be a horses for courses player.

Yep I reckon your spot on there , especially Neade , when he's near it up forward anything can happen , gives a decent 2/3 effort aswell in my book .

 

[Marmozet]

F**k Richmond! Whatever helps ease the pain of what we did to you when it mattered most, the finals ya pack of c**ts!

Let them believe their own hype after two wins.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

I am really struggling with our selections this year. I just don't understand how Kenny can put Sam Gray in the side before Moore. I am struggling with our lack of midfielders. Robbie Gray should not be doing all the heavy lifting in the midfield. We need rotations. We have too many flankers. I think Broady has been wasted as a seagull. I am peeved about the treatment of Ah Chee. I hate the sub rule. We need some inside bulk to enable the outside players to show some flair and skills. Clurey is rotting away in the sanfl. I don't care if White doesn't like playing as sub. What did Melbourne trade to get Hogan?

 

[klem22]

Sounds like we are starting to shuffle the deck chairs on the titanic here someone has bastardized this club and what the hell is going to fix it is beyond me. Im starting to think there are things going on within this club that has turned it to poop. No amount of changes is going to save this club until things change within

 

[Macca19]

I've never ragged on Mitchell's selection. I know why he was selected.

Gray on the other hand, was so mind boggling baffling that you have to wonder if the selection committee has money on our opposition. He doesn't play that small forward pressure role ever in the SANFL. But hey, lets gift him a game in that role because we don't have anyone else who is worthy of selection even though we've again been smashed around stoppages that aren't in the center. Funny how you label a big mid like Moore icing - I guess Gray's grand total of 2 tackles (even though in your review you reckon he tackled well at times) would be like a sprinkle of icing sugar in comparison.

I don't care how great he is at training, or how good his form is. If he's not being selected as a mid, where his form is actually displayed, then he's as useless as **** on a bull. No one is expecting him to come in and win us games. Who on here has ever said that?? We do, however, expect any changes at the selection table to have a meaningful and noticeable impact on performance, regardless of how well the rest of the team is playing. Otherwise what's the point of changing the team? Young was excellent in his first game. Ah Chee did some nice things as the sub, as did Amon. But Gray? Sorry Macca, you're toeing the company line a bit too much trying to defend this one. I understand the idea behind it, and I like him as much as anyone could like a smallish midfielder, but if Gray isn't out of the team this week, we've obviously decided to tank.

If it was my choice, Gray wouldnt have been selected and i'd have given AhChee or Amon a full game instead. But a number of people have said 'tell me why Gray got a game' so I did just that.

I bring it up because on a weekly basis there is significantly more criticism towards the 20th, 21st, 22nd player selected each week compared to the cream who havent delivered this year.

 

[Forzaport]

His form has been better than AhChee, Moore (due to suspension) and Neade. Everyone wanted Young dropped last week after two fairly non descript performances. Stewart is the odd one out and he probably deserves a go soon, but again, is he going to be the difference between us winning and losing these games?

Maybe Gray trains the house down and thats why he gets rewarded?

In the end, whilst Hartlett, Westhoff, Schulz, Lobbe, Jonas, Broady, White, Trengove & Carlile are pissfarting about doing not much then these guys shouldnt be expected to come in and win us games.

That's why I can't figure out the logic of his selection. His form as a clearance winning machine at SANFL level doesn't translate to AFL, especially when he's viewed as a small forward - If he was played in the middle in some sort of hybrid role replacing Mitchell but with more inside work, that would at least make sense but as a small forward it was obvious that he would likely have zero impact. Neade would have been the better choice for the role and his form was worthy of AFL selection.

I can't accept that S.Gray was selected purely because he was the best performed SANFL player. In isolation this just doesn't work, players need to be at a certain standard to be under AFL consideration and while Gray's form has been stellar and better than Ah Chee, Moore and Neade, I wouldn't view him as an obvious selection over those players. As an example, Gray was BOG against the Adelaide reserves, Moore was 2nd best and Young 4th best. At the very least, Moore should have been selected for the Richmond game, he had excellent form when he was suspended and was equally impressive against Adelaide's reserves. Moore goes into the guts, allows R.Gray/Wingard more time up forward and suddenly we're much more potent.

Edit: I do agree that there shouldn't be an expectation on S.Gray to win us games and that our poorly performing "stars" need to pull their collective fingers out, I just want to make sense of why S.Gray was selected.

 

[Arsene Wenger]

That's why I can't figure out the logic of his selection. His form as a clearance winning machine at SANFL level doesn't translate to AFL, especially when he's viewed as a small forward - If he was played in the middle in some sort of hybrid role replacing Mitchell but with more inside work, that would at least make sense but as a small forward it was obvious that he would likely have zero impact. Neade would have been the better choice for the role and his form was worthy of AFL selection.

I can't accept that S.Gray was selected purely because he was the best performed SANFL player. In isolation this just doesn't work, players need to be at a certain standard to be under AFL consideration and while Gray's form has been stellar and better than Ah Chee, Moore and Neade, I wouldn't view him as an obvious selection over those players. As an example, Gray was BOG against the Adelaide reserves, Moore was 2nd best and Young 4th best. At the very least, Moore should have been selected for the Richmond game, he had excellent form when he was suspended and was equally impressive against Adelaide's reserves. Moore goes into the guts, allows R.Gray/Wingard more time up forward and suddenly we're much more potent.

Edit: I do agree that there shouldn't be an expectation on S.Gray to win us games and that our poorly performing "stars" need to pull their collective fingers out, I just want to make sense of why S.Gray was selected.

This.

Plus Moore is a far better player. Give him 10 weeks in the side and see what he produces.

Sounds like we are starting to shuffle the deck chairs on the titanic here someone has bastardized this club and what the hell is going to fix it is beyond me. Im starting to think there are things going on within this club that has turned it to poop. No amount of changes is going to save this club until things change within

As for people saying this sort of stuff, I think its bullshit and a cop out. "No amount of changes is going to save this club until things change within" what the fk are you on about? We have been ordinary for a few weeks, yes, but there is plenty there to work with and work on... We will turn this around.

 

[I Dont Care]

Numbness takes away the pain. I am numb

 

[PJ Power]

although he is a good average player, and Lobbe on paper had better statistics, Maric seemed to have genuine influence over the game yesterday.

That's how I saw it.
It really helps when the ruckman takes marks over the ground, either by going forward which he did numerous times, or as the escape kick from defence.

Lobbe's marking problems are documented, but Ryder is also failing to grasp his marking chances. He seems to have very limp wrists that get slapped around too easily just when it looks like the ball is going to stick.

 

[simmo_bc]

Richmonds structural rotations killed us, and Dimma out strategised Ken, on the weekend.. They had Riewoldt, Deledio and Martin all spending time at Full Forward which pushed Bobby out of his comfort zone and towards the half back flank which exposed his leg speed.

TJ is playing as a lock down defender at the moment which means he is obviously down on confidence. He has never been a high possession getter but was playing with a lot more flair in 2013 and 2014. He is trying hard though and the tide will turn.

Fair play to Richmond, they completely out played us yesterday.

 

[pafc88]

Richmonds structural rotations killed us, and Dimma out strategised Ken, on the weekend.. They had Riewoldt, Deledio and Martin all spending time at Full Forward which pushed Bobby out of his comfort zone and towards the half back flank which exposed his leg speed.

TJ is playing as a lock down defender at the moment which means he is obviously down on confidence. He has never been a high possession getter but was playing with a lot more flair in 2013 and 2014. He is trying hard though and the tide will turn.

Fair play to Richmond, they completely out played us yesterday.

Trengove is most likely out for 8 weeks.. its gonna have to turn later on unfortunately

 

[John Hart Jnr]

Trengove is most likely out for 8 weeks.. its gonna have to turn later on unfortunately

Time to move Westhof or Paddy into defence.

 

[pafc88]

F**k Richmond! Whatever helps ease the pain of what we did to you when it mattered most, the finals ya pack of c**ts!

Let them believe their own hype after two wins.

3 wins

 

[pafc88]

Time to move Westhof or Paddy into defence.

That wont help our shambles of a forward line.. the hoff could play the role i guess.. he's doing nothing else. He seems to play better when hes told what he has to do rather than just let loose and roam.

 

[Willsy10]

Where to now? It appears that the club is completely falling apart at the moment. The 2 things that stick out to me is that opposition know exactly how to beat us now, the game plan has been picked to pieces and the players confidence is at 2011 levels.

I honestly think we are weeks away from turning this around because we need to completely overhaul the game plan and the players need to regain confidence that is at rock bottom. I reckon the season is just about cooked.

We've seemed to have stuffed this year up right from the get go. From the final siren of the 2014 preliminary final everything has been a disaster. Things like Sending the players off a week early before Xmas even though we had just started pre season, Kenny not coaching during the pre season, changing the pre season structure of playing the kids in week 2 instead of week 1, and other little things like selfies before games makes it look like from a supporters perspective that there heads haven't been in the right place this year to have a serious shot on the flag.

Fingers crossed that 2015 is like what 2006 was to Geelong.

 

[Janus]

Where to now? It appears that the club is completely falling apart at the moment. The 2 things that stick out to me is that opposition know exactly how to beat us now, the game plan has been picked to pieces and the players confidence is at 2011 levels.

I honestly think we are weeks away from turning this around because we need to completely overhaul the game plan and the players need to regain confidence that is at rock bottom. I reckon the season is just about cooked.

We've seemed to have stuffed this year up right from the get go. From the final siren of the 2014 preliminary final everything has been a disaster. Things like Sending the players off a week early before Xmas even though we had just started pre season, Kenny not coaching during the pre season, changing the pre season structure of playing the kids in week 2 instead of week 1, and other little things like selfies before games makes it look like from a supporters perspective that there heads haven't been in the right place this year to have a serious shot on the flag.

Fingers crossed that 2015 is like what 2006 was to Geelong.

First of all, the players have a mandatory break determined by the AFL Players Association, which is why they had a week off before Christmas - play an extra week means the week off has to come somewhere. Secondly, it's not the clubs fault that the AFL in its infinite wisdom decided to schedule our country game at a place without a recognized airport before we had to fly to Perth in Round 1, so they adjusted their schedule accordingly.

The only thing that I agree with in your post that actually matters is Ken not coaching the preseason and taking it easy. That really was a * up in hindsight, because it gave the players the wrong impression.

 

[PA88]

First of all, the players have a mandatory break determined by the AFL Players Association, which is why they had a week off before Christmas - play an extra week means the week off has to come somewhere. Secondly, it's not the clubs fault that the AFL in its infinite wisdom decided to schedule our country game at a place without a recognized airport before we had to fly to Perth in Round 1, so they adjusted their schedule accordingly.

The only thing that I agree with in your post that actually matters is Ken not coaching the preseason and taking it easy. That really was a **** up in hindsight, because it gave the players the wrong impression.

The 2014 pre-season Hinkley decided to play the kids in the first game against the crows and take the other two games seriously. Ok, I think he still coached that game or was it Hocking that took it, I cannot recall. This time he gave some first 22 players a rest in the second game to avoid travelling. After all in the finals we went travelling to Freo and two weeks before that to Freo in the final round. Maybe it was a negative but is it really that different to the pre-season before? If the fault has evolved from a poor message in the pre-season, it would be from what talk there has been in-house.

 

[Jack Foster]

Remarkable similarities to the Eagles in 2013 was touted as a premiership chance, Lost phil walsh in the off season teams worked out our game plan and the wheels fell off, Still think you will make 8 tho

I'm pretty sure you guys had Phil Walsh in 2013 and were just s**t.

 

[DazzaTys]

whilst I am a fan, funny how Young's form dipped as soon as they did the spread about him in the paper after the Hawks game.

My problem with Gray is that he is 176cm and at that height you have to be able to offer a lot because you don't provide a lot of flexibility to the team in a plan B scenario. I see him as a 'too good for SANFL but not quite good enough for the AFL' player.

Neade is in the same boat as Gray however atleast has x-factor but even then, he'll always be a horses for courses player.

S Gray wAs in the side to provide defensive pressure inside the fwd 50 because of his speed. I think it was the last qtr where his man burned of completely and left Gray nearly 100m away. That was unacceptable. Plus his kicking was average as well.

 

[StrappingTape]

I marvelled at our forward set up either late in the 1st or in the 3rd we had a centre square setup of wines at FF on his own and ryder and schultz pushed up to the 50.. what the * is the point of this setup? What a ******* schmozzle, schulz and ryder are going to offer jackshit to random groundballs coming out of the middle and wines isn't a full forward.

 

[Finest of Wines]

Hartlett is the player im most disappointed with so far, has barely influenced in all the games he has played thus far.

Our forward line structure is non-existing, surely with three tall forwards we should be setting up for them to contest marks not the likes of monfires/s.gray which continues to happen!

 

[1954]

I would like to know more about this.

I have had it confirmed by another person who saw the altercation, but he told me it wasn't during the game, it was after the siren.
His words were `not a good look. '