Racism Discussion - what is race? what is racism?

[Scallop Industry Thug]

The reason is image. I compared the image of Bond with your image of Alba - they look nothing alike. Its not believable.

And your reason was, solely, race.

Eagerly await your input on the Fresh Prince.

Kevin Federline.

 

[Malifice]

I have explained; he's handsome, well built, well spoken. I have said this repeatedly.

He's also been traditionally described as having fair skin and cold grey eyes in additon to the above.

That said, I have nothing wrong with shaking it up. Daniel Craig copped s**t for having blonde hair, and he's given us the best (and most accurate) Bond portrayal yet.

Of course Craigs Bond is ex SAS instead of a former Naval officer, so he also deviates from the 'cannonical' Bond in more ways than just his hair color.

 

[kfc1]

And your reason was, solely, race.

Say it a few more times and you might make it true. Or end up back in Kansas

Kevin Federline.

A 45 year old actor can convincinly portray a teenage Fresh Prince?
Clearly demonstrating how terrible your judgement is on this topic, lol

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Say it a few more times and you might make it true. Or end up back in Kansas

I'm just going by your words.

I do think that having a black actor playing James Bond makes as much sense as having a white actor play Will Smith's character in Fresh Prince.

And that concludes my discussion with you.

 

[kfc1]

I'm just going by your words.



And that concludes my discussion with you.

Welcomed by all

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Well, if the character of Bond is representative of white racial pride or white chauvinism then the character should be retired.

He was Scottish and a stereotypical subject of the British private school system.

Just because a character is devised with this background does not imply any racism. Specifically belonging to a minority group would involve a different background and persona.

Shall we get Nicole Kidman to portray an African Slave in the cotton fields of the USA?

 

[kfc1]

He was Scottish and a stereotypical subject of the British private school system.

Just because a character is devised with this background does not imply any racism. Specifically belonging to a minority group would involve a different background and persona.

Dont expect anything other than deflection or repetition from funkyzeit, he and tess are two peas in a pod.

I do lol at the logical gymnastics tho:
> daniel craig not believable as original Bond character because he doesnt have the right look = ok
> Idris Alba not believable as original Bond character because he doesnt have the right look = racism
> mfw

 

[Boston tiger]

James Bond just needs to be cool .. good with the women and look like he could fight a bit. These people who think a black guy couldn't pull off the role of James Bond in the world we live into today having a black president and women prime ministers etc are off the mark. It's a corny movie franchise just like Batman etc.

 

[Boston tiger]

Mi5 employment etc

"We currently employ about 3,800 people. 41% of staff are women, 56% are less than 40 years old, 8% are from black or ethnic minority backgrounds and 3% have a disability. Around 330 staff currently work in the Security Service on secondment or attachment ....

 

[Eastern Rangers]

You do realise they are fictional characters yeah?

Of a discrete ethic heritage within certain social and historical context. Which is why they could be racially different in a different social context that doesn't fundamentally change the nature of the character. Ergo: a Black James Bond is absolutely British in every way.

Other characters like Han there is simply no need to change his characters skin colour. He can simply be replaced with another character.

The question is weather we need to persist with the existing ethnocentrism that says that ethnic and racial backgrounds are interchangeable.

If James Bond wasn't his birth name then this would be a whole lot easier from a narrative perspective.

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Number37]

...

The question is weather we need to persist with the existing ethnocentrism that says that ethnic and racial backgrounds are interchangeable.

If James Bond wasn't his birth name then this would be a whole lot easier from a narrative perspective.

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

Did you mean NOT interchangeable?

 

[Gus Poyet]

James Bond just needs to be cool .. good with the women and look like he could fight a bit. These people who think a black guy couldn't pull off the role of James Bond in the world we live into today having a black president and women prime ministers etc are off the mark. It's a corny movie franchise just like Batman etc.

You completely miss the point.

007 is James Bond. The whole premice of the series is about James Bond.

It's like when they switched in a different Becky on Rosanne. Yes we all know it's a different person playing the role but it's still the same character.

That's what Bond is about. It's the same character played by different people.

So no, you can't have a black actor or a woman all of a sudden come in and play James Bond because James Bond is a white male.

You'd have to change the spy to 007 Delroy Wilson, he cannot be James Bond, get it?

 

[Malifice]

So no, you can't have a black actor or a woman all of a sudden come in and play James Bond because James Bond is a white male.

What about Miss Moneypenny?

She's an original (and central) character from the books who has appeared in most of the films, and has always been depicted as a 'white' girl.

Here she is in Skyfall:

Was this jarring for anyone? Was in an issue? I thought it was a good twist.

What about Weylon Smithers from the Simpsons whom after the first episode mysteriously became a white guy?

It happens bro. s**t, Hollywood has even cast white actors to play real life black people:

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/05...-that-hollywood-cast-as-white-people-instead/

And its not like casting 'non white' actors to play roles previously depicted by 'white' guys is unheard of outside the Bond franchise either:

http://www.toptenz.net/10-non-white-actors-played-previosly-white-characters.php

Will Smith (I am Legend), Denzel Washinton (the Manchurian candidate), Morgan Freeman (playing a character called Red who was literally written as a redheaded white guy in the Shawshank redemption) Samuel Jackson (Nick Fury - a white guy in literally every single Marvel film and a comic franchise going back over 50 years) Idris Elba (Heimdall in the Thor franchise - playing a black Norse God FFS).

There are some very established literally characters there.

Why the sudden problem?

 

[Boston tiger]

You completely miss the point.

007 is James Bond. The whole premice of the series is about James Bond.

It's like when they switched in a different Becky on Rosanne. Yes we all know it's a different person playing the role but it's still the same character.

That's what Bond is about. It's the same character played by different people.

So no, you can't have a black actor or a woman all of a sudden come in and play James Bond because James Bond is a white male.

You'd have to change the spy to 007 Delroy Wilson, he cannot be James Bond, get it?

I don't think you get it. James Bond is a spy who is employed by Mi5. No one is changing the books written by Flemming.
This is movies. Tall James Bonds .. short James Bond.. Scottish James Bonds( big mistake there how did that happen James Bond is English..how do you explain that one) Dark James Bond. Blonde James Bond.. Black James Bond .. No problem unless you are a little bit uncomfortable with people with a different look to a Caucasian.

I'd say get out and and travel.
I

 

[Gus Poyet]

I don't think you get it. James Bond is a spy who is employed by Mi5. No one is changing the books written by Flemming.
This is movies. Tall James Bonds .. short James Bond.. Scottish James Bonds( big mistake there how did that happen James Bond is English..how do you explain that one) Dark James Bond. Blonde James Bond.. Black James Bond .. No problem unless you are a little bit uncomfortable with people with a different look to a Caucasian.

I'd say get out and and travel.
I

You read like someone who knows nothing about James Bond and his history.

The fact you say James Bond is English shows that. James Bond was born in Germany to a Scottish Father and Swiss mother.

So I explain it as you have no idea what you're talking about when you say James Bond is English.

I'm uncomfortable with changing something for stupiditiy sake. Just because some moron thinks oh lets all of a sudden make James Bond black, that'd make sense.

I've travelled more than you have. I don't see how that has any relevance.

 

[kfc1]

http://www.toptenz.net/10-non-white-actors-played-previosly-white-characters.php

Strange article, that.

I did find it amusing, though, that you posted an article whinging about black actors playing white characters as an example of it being all cool in the past and now there's a "sudden problem" with Bond. Bit of a fail there.

 

[Gus Poyet]

What about Miss Moneypenny?

She's an original (and central) character from the books who has appeared in most of the films, and has always been depicted as a 'white' girl.

Here she is in Skyfall:

Was this jarring for anyone? Was in an issue? I thought it was a good twist.

Moneypennys ethnicity was never alluded to by Flemming.

Unlike Bonds.

What about Weylon Smithers from the Simpsons whom after the first episode mysteriously became a white guy?

It happens bro. s**t, Hollywood has even cast white actors to play real life black people:

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/05...-that-hollywood-cast-as-white-people-instead/

And its not like casting 'non white' actors to play roles previously depicted by 'white' guys is unheard of outside the Bond franchise either:

http://www.toptenz.net/10-non-white-actors-played-previosly-white-characters.php

Will Smith (I am Legend), Denzel Washinton (the Manchurian candidate), Morgan Freeman (playing a character called Red who was literally written as a redheaded white guy in the Shawshank redemption) Samuel Jackson (Nick Fury - a white guy in literally every single Marvel film and a comic franchise going back over 50 years) Idris Elba (Heimdall in the Thor franchise - playing a black Norse God FFS).

There are some very established literally characters there.

Why the sudden problem?

It happens to characters nobody cares about that dont have a long history on screen.

Do you think Smithers had the same history as Bond on the big screen?

There is zero need to make Bond black, none at all. More than enough white actors out there to fill the role.

 

[kfc1]

There is zero need to make Bond black, none at all. More than enough white actors out there to fill the role.

I'd suggest it is trying to rejuvenate a movie series that has become stale. The announcement of a black guy playing Bond is a major publicity shot.

 

[Gus Poyet]

I'd suggest it is trying to rejuvenate a movie series that has become stale. The announcement of a black guy playing Bond is a major publicity shot.

It's not stale. I've quite enjoyed the last few movies.

If it's stale it's the writing thats stale.

Adding some black guy doesn't all of a sudden make it any better. Well not unless you're an idiot with some kind of moronic guilt complex.

 

[Boston tiger]

You read like someone who knows nothing about James Bond and his history.

The fact you say James Bond is English shows that. James Bond was born in Germany to a Scottish Father and Swiss mother.

So I explain it as you have no idea what you're talking about when you say James Bond is English.

I'm uncomfortable with changing something for stupiditiy sake. Just because some moron thinks oh lets all of a sudden make James Bond black, that'd make sense.

I've travelled more than you have. I don't see how that has any relevance.

You know it's make believe don't you? Just needs to be made believable .. That's all.
Shock horror a black Englishmen ?? No one would ever believe that. Bond movies are fantasies .. He could be fighting aliens next.. No one cares any more what colour he is..
Your living in the past.
And one more time ... It's make believe.

 

[kfc1]

Shock horror a black Englishmen ?? No one would ever believe that.

They might have to change it so that Bond's Scottish father and Swiss mother couldn't conceive so they adopted a black baby?

 

[Malifice]

Moneypennys ethnicity was never alluded to by Flemming.

It happens to characters nobody cares about that dont have a long history on screen.

Moneypenny doesnt have a long history on screen? She has the same history as Bond, being depicted by no fewer than six different actresses over several decades.

Nick Fury became black and he has a 50 year history of being drawn as a white guy in Marvel comics!

Same deal with Heimdall who was a depiction of a Nordic God with an arguably even longer history (2000 odd years).

Where was your outrage with Johnny Depp playing a native american in Tonto? Did you find that jarring?

 

[Malifice]

Adding some black guy doesn't all of a sudden make it any better. Well not unless you're an idiot with some kind of moronic guilt complex.

What does 'guilt' have to do with a black guy playing the role?

Please expand on this. I'm intrigued by your obvious prejudice inferred in this statement, as if you assume giving a black actor the role is some kind of expression of affirmative action designed solely to please a world thats gone PC mad.

 

[Gus Poyet]

You know it's make believe don't you? Just needs to be made believable .. That's all.
Shock horror a black Englishmen ?? No one would ever believe that. Bond movies are fantasies .. He could be fighting aliens next.. No one cares any more what colour he is..
Your living in the past.
And one more time ... It's make believe.

Yes, making a white man into a black man is believeable.

Why exactly are you wanting Bond to be a black man? What titillating thrill will you get out of it?

Anyway let me quote Yaphet Kotto. You won't know who he is but Bond fans will. His opinion is a far better one to respect than yours.

"Political correctness be damned... [Bond] cannot be black,” he told Big Issue magazine. "James Bond was established by Ian Fleming as a white character, played by white actors. Play 003 or 006 but you cannot be 007," he added.

Kotto, 75, also the first black actor to play a James Bond villain, said that he finds it "ridiculous" when people say all roles should be open to black actors: "If I say I want to play JFK, I should be laughed out of the room," he said. "Black men should stop trying to play roles created by whites. These roles are not written for black men. We have to pen roles that no one else has established.”

 

[Gus Poyet]

Moneypenny doesnt have a long history on screen? She has the same history as Bond, being depicted by no fewer than six different actresses over several decades.

Her whole sum of screen time would be lucky to amount to an hour over all those years.

I saw no reason to make her a mixed race actress anyway. What was the point?

Nick Fury became black and he has a 50 year history of being drawn as a white guy in Marvel comics!

Nick Fury isn't an icon like James Bnd is. Not even in the same conversation.

Same deal with Heimdall who was a depiction of a Nordic God with an arguably even longer history (2000 odd years).

Who has heard of this God until the movies? WHo knows who is he is even after the movies? Once again, not even in the same conversation as an iconic figure in western history like Bond.

Where was your outrage with Johnny Depp playing a native american in Tonto? Did you find that jarring?

I found it a totally rubbish role. Totally lame and unbelieveable.