Rank Geelong's worst trade selections

[calder_daddy]

sort of in the hoops ..

Oh my

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

What did we trade for Scott Bamford, Brett Spinks, Grgic etc?

Spinks (pick 13 - Callum Chambers) and Grgic (pick 55 - Brad Miller) have been mentioned above.

Bamford and Tristan Lynch for Marty McKinnon and pick 5 in 1998. Pick 5 only ended up being Michael Stevens, but still...wow, teams just didn't respect first round picks at all back in the day, did they? Considering five of the immediate seven picks following Stevens were Josh Carr, Jude Bolton, Mark McVeigh, Lenny Hayes and Adam Ramanauskas...I'd say that warrants being in the discussion.

Actually...whoa...Jason Mooney for pick 8 in the same draft (Bolton). If we take it on face value, that's got to be right up there, but do we get Cam Mooney down to the Cattery without Jason already being here?

Tim Hargreaves for Aaron Lord and Hamish Simpson/Cameron Roberts for Shayne Breuer/Adam Kingsley weren't great either.

 

[Vdubs]

The Loates retirement thread found here:
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/david-loates-retires.140093/

My favourite quotes:
"Worst player we have ever recruited. Makes Peter Street look like a champion in comparison."

"career highlight:kicked a miracle goal from the boundary as hawthorn moved to a 51 point lead against richmond. alas, when everitt went off, his rucking was a major factor in richmond storming back to win"

"He played one game fomr Geelong this year, 0 kicks, 0 marks, 0 handballs"

We were at that game, and it was sad, embarrassing, and pitiful. Annoying that Ayres recruited him from Hawthorn, but he clearly had seen better days there. I think he came across with a knee injury, and lasted one game iirc.

 

[JUBJUB]

mumford has to be a big one given our ruck woes. Duncan is nice chocolates but Mumford would of got us home in 2013.

Mummy has proven he's just a moneygrabber.Left Geelong cos Sydney chucked a shitload of money at him then ditched them when GWS did the same.

 

[JUBJUB]

The Loates retirement thread found here:
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/david-loates-retires.140093/

A 10yo thread that I don't appear in

 

[dazbroncos]

THE only 10yo thread that I don't appear in

EFA….

Go Catters

 

[Seeds]

Sydney paid overs for him from memory and our salary cap at the time wouldn't allow us to match anything near what he got offered.
Same goes for Moloney

In was overs in terms of past performance. But not future performance which is what you are actually paying for. If anything it was unders in terms of what he delivered.

 

[Seeds]

you are in the wrong thread.

 

[Seeds]

Hamish Simpson from the late 90's.

Did we trade him or draft him?

 

[you pick one]

Did we trade him or draft him?

Draft I reckon.

 

[you pick one]

Mummy has proven he's just a moneygrabber.Left Geelong cos Sydney chucked a shitload of money at him then ditched them when GWS did the same.

Wasn't the first wont be the last.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

sort of in the hoops ..

Substantial upgrade on Felicity Kennett !!

 

[CatFan79]

Blame Billy Goggin! He was Football Director and refused to pay the little extra that Williams wanted to stay. A shocker

Yep, back when people thought club greats automatically knew how to make good business decisions..

Let his ego get the better of him.

Not unlike Bradman's failure as a cricket administrator..

 

[Partridge]

http://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/2015-07-29/mcintosh-announces-retirement
Now that HMac has today officially announced his retirement, Geelong's decision to recruit him could go down as one of the worst trade selections, not because he lacked talent, but because he was severely hampered by injury at North and Geelong. This got me thinking - where would the HMac selection rank amongst other questionable selections?

Up there. Right up there. A fun fact: in his last 5 seasons of football, McIntosh managed to play a whopping 27 senior games. What's more impressive is his recruitment is already being defended as bad luck. He had played 8 games in 2 years and was already 28 years of age; there was no 'luck' at all. Instead a recruiting decision based on the most wildly optimistic viewpoint proved to be wrong.

But I take comfort that he proved himself a Geelong player.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Oh this chestnut again Mr Partridge. funny you're yet to answer my question, the same question I ask you every time.

 

[Partridge]

Oh this chestnut again Mr Partridge. funny you're yet to answer my question, the same question I ask you every time.

Yep. It had nothing to do with a thread called 'Rank Geelong's worst trade selections' being created (by someone else), on the very same day as McIntosh's retirement announcement (oh that's right; that's this thread). And it's not like someone else asked a specific question like "where would the HMac selection rank amongst other questionable selections?" or anything (Oh that's right, they did, in this thread again).

As to your same question, unless my answer is "Yes I agree with you, that the club has never erred; nor will it err to all eternity" (paraphrasing Gregory VII) I suspect you'll find it unsatisfactory.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yep. It had nothing to do with a thread called 'Rank Geelong's worst trade selections' being created (by someone else), on the very same day as McIntosh's retirement announcement (oh that's right; that's this thread). And it's not like someone else asked a specific question like "where would the HMac selection rank amongst other questionable selections?" or anything (Oh that's right, they did, in this thread again).

Oh but it does, ranking Hmac as high as you have only stands up if you can answer the question I keep asking you. You continually claim that it was an error to recruit him. I disagree based on what our motives as a club were at the time. we needed a better first ruck option than West or Orren to contend for a premiership in 2013-14. So the question remains, what alternatives were there to bring into the club? If you can find one that would have helped us in 2013-14 I'll concede. Until then I'm right, the logic behind his recruitment was not wrong.

As to your same question, unless my answer is "Yes I agree with you, that the club has never erred; nor will it err to all eternity" (paraphrasing Gregory VII) I suspect you'll find it unsatisfactory.

Not at all the club makes mistakes. recruiting Blease whilst letting Hamling and Hunt go being just from last year. We differ here in this instance as you like to after the fact criticise his recruitment but cannot give just 1 alternative. In the absence of an alternative he was a gamble worth taking.

 

[Partridge]

Oh but it does, ranking Hmac as high as you have only stands up if you can answer the question I keep asking you. You continually claim that it was an error to recruit him. I disagree based on what our motives as a club were at the time. we needed a better first ruck option than West or Orren to contend for a premiership in 2013-14. So the question remains, what alternatives were there to bring into the club? If you can find one that would have helped us in 2013-14 I'll concede. Until then I'm right, the logic behind his recruitment was not wrong.

There's the difference right there. My position at the time McIntosh was recruited was we didn't need him; I was happy with a ruck triumvirate of Simpson (as first ruck), and West and Vardy as the other rucks. Simple as that.

Not at all the club makes mistakes. recruiting Blease whilst letting Hamling and Hunt go being just from last year. We differ here in this instance as you like to after the fact criticise his recruitment but cannot give just 1 alternative. In the absence of an alternative he was a gamble worth taking.

See above. I didn't (and don't) give an alternative because I didn't think the club needed one.

 

[Pivo]

...We differ here in this instance as you like to after the fact criticise his recruitment but cannot give just 1 alternative. In the absence of an alternative he was a gamble worth taking.

To be fair to Partridge I seem to recall him being reasonably vocal about recruiting McIntosh at the time it happened all the way through to now.

When it comes to this subject, I think Partridge has been reasonably steadfast in questioning the wisdom of getting McIntosh to the club.

 

[darren forssman]

Up there. Right up there. A fun fact: in his last 5 seasons of football, McIntosh managed to play a whopping 27 senior games. What's more impressive is his recruitment is already being defended as bad luck. He had played 8 games in 2 years and was already 28 years of age; there was no 'luck' at all. Instead a recruiting decision based on the most wildly optimistic viewpoint proved to be wrong.

in recent history i agree, right up there.

we would have been basically bidding against ourselves (he was also never going to play for norf behind goldstein) and basically gave up what adelaide did for jacobs and richmond for maric. also his norf contract should never have been extended another 2 years and we should have made norf chip in for his contract as well.

and whilst i am happy with the thurlow pick, trading for h-mac meant we overlooked grundy.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Up there. Right up there. A fun fact: in his last 5 seasons of football, McIntosh managed to play a whopping 27 senior games. What's more impressive is his recruitment is already being defended as bad luck. He had played 8 games in 2 years and was already 28 years of age; there was no 'luck' at all. Instead a recruiting decision based on the most wildly optimistic viewpoint proved to be wrong.

But I take comfort that he proved himself a Geelong player.

Wholly agree with this; I'd rate the recruitment of McIntosh as one of the worst decisions of it's sort that the club has made since I've supported them.
It was pretty clear that McIntosh's body just wasn't up to playing at AFL level anymore, as you've pointed out with the worryingly low game tally he'd managed in his last couple of seasons at North.
The club has a recent history of drafting young kids with injury concerns who otherwise may have been taken earlier; Selwood, Varcoe and latterly Cockatoo. Perhaps that philosophy inspired the gamble on a banged-up ruckman (who I personally never rated particularly highly as a player, despite one AA squad nomination in 2007) who had barely played in two years.

The thing that irks me is that we already had a mature-aged ruckman on our list in Orren Stephenson, who, in my probably-lone opinion, had a really solid back-end to his debut season (including a stellar VFL finals campaign which played a big part in Geelong winning the 2012 VFL flag) and who had displayed stamina and durability despite his relatively advanced years. I quite liked him as a player, turned it on against the Hawks in one of his 8 AFL games, and I enjoyed what he did in he VFL finals that year.

We effectively swapped him out for McIntosh.

Stephenson was never going to be a long-term answer, but the club had made the call on him in the 2011 draft, and to me the about-face - delisting him after one serviceable season - only to make a swap in the similarly aged (and less durable) McIntosh seemed uncharacteristically muddled by the list management team.

 

[Pivo]

The thing that irks me is that we already had a mature-aged ruckman on our list in Orren Stephenson, who, in my probably-lone opinion, had a really solid back-end to his debut season (including a stellar VFL finals campaign which played a big part in Geelong winning the 2012 VFL flag) and who had displayed stamina and durability despite his relatively advanced years. I quite liked him as a player, turned it on against the Hawks in one of his 8 AFL games, and I enjoyed what he did in he VFL finals that year.

I'd agree with this so you're not on your lonesome.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

There's the difference right there. My position at the time McIntosh was recruited was we didn't need him; I was happy with a ruck triumvirate of Simpson (as first ruck), and West and Vardy as the other rucks. Simple as that.



See above. I didn't (and don't) give an alternative because I didn't think the club needed one.

Geez that's an awful lot of faith you're putting into to those three at the time.

West not a good enough no.1 ruck, quick good backup no.2 ruck.

Vardy had up until when Hamish was recruited played 11 games averaging 11 hitouts in those games.

Simpson, 6 games for 13 hitouts per game. Yep almost delusional levels of faith in those three. west as no.1 ruck was never going to be premiership standard. we needed better.

So let's recap 2012. Hawkins had just had his break out year, club at trade time couldn't have been able to predict the back problems he'd endure. Going into 2013 we'd still have Taylor, Lonergan, Enright, Chapman, Bartel, Corey, Selwood, Johnson. Developing young players in Duncan, Christensen, Guthrie. We needed a better ruckman to complement our very good core.

That was shown when Hamish was unfit and we were slaughtered in the ruck in the finals, for an indication of West's as a no.1 ruck he was overlooked whilst fit and then moved on at seasons end. Sounds like Dawson this year is some ways. Again we needed better and this is where we differ.

To be fair to Partridge I seem to recall him being reasonably vocal about recruiting McIntosh at the time it happened all the way through to now.

When it comes to this subject, I think Partridge has been reasonably steadfast in questioning the wisdom of getting McIntosh to the club.

I know, we've had this discussion before and he's usually as logical and as rational as you'd see. On this I don't think it's bulletproof, I don't think it entirely stands up to criticism.

 

[Cursed Cat]

I'd agree with this so you're not on your lonesome.

cheers Piv, thought that opinion may have been howled down - as I said I don't necessarily think Stephenson was the long-term answer by any means, but I ended up being encouraged by his first season and thought we could easily have gotten another season out of him. He was also very capable 'resting' up forward, which we didn't see much of at AFL level in his brief time at the club.
Only cost us #78; the list spot itself was probably more the issue, and again I didn't necessarily disagree for the need of an 'upgrade' - but I was surprised at the time that the club had opted to offer that spot to McIntosh. Apparently the club was again snared by the kind of thinking which had only just recently seen us recruit and quickly-enough delist Marcus Drum.

 

[Vdubs]

cheers Piv, thought that opinion may have been howled down - as I said I don't necessarily think Stephenson was the long-term answer by any means, but I ended up being encouraged by his first season and thought we could easily have gotten another season out of him. He was also very capable 'resting' up forward, which we didn't see much of at AFL level in his brief time at the club.
Only cost us #78; the list spot itself was probably more the issue, and again I didn't necessarily disagree for the need of an 'upgrade' - but I was surprised at the time that the club had opted to offer that spot to McIntosh. Apparently the club was again snared by the kind of thinking which had only just recently seen us recruit and quickly-enough delist Marcus Drum.

My vote for worst decision of course is letting Blake retire before his 100th; we have been cursed ever since.