Autopsy Rd 22 Carlton fail to get off the plane

I don't feel too bad this morning.

A bit of good sleep and some perspective can make all the difference. Port, a finals bound, very fit side with a plethora of players to choose from versus a depleted, inconsistent (at the best of times) side playing multiple youth and only just barely having enough players to field a side.... yeah. It was probably never gonna be pretty.

Some of the efforts were genuinely very disappointing though. For others, I think it was as much about lacking fitness than actual effort. Port players were able to give us the run around.

Gibba and Rowe were almost heroic last night. If not for their constant effort and winning their positions, I reckon we'd lose by 140+.

Sammy Rowe in particular, gee if he wasn't there, I hate to think what our defense would have looked like.
 

kanye_best

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I don't feel bad at all today.
prisoner777 has a point though. we've done this for a number of years now. had some good games, teased us with good form, only for it to come undone. rinse&repeat. it's gonna take more than a handful of honorable losses to convince me we've turned the corner.
 
I don't feel bad at all today.
prisoner777 has a point though. we've done this for a number of years now. had some good games, teased us with good form, only for it to come undone. rinse&repeat. it's gonna take more than a handful of honorable losses to convince me we've turned the corner.
It's definitely a problem.

Really hoping Mick can help change this.
 

Catsace

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Where the explanation needs to be is not on that we lost but why we lost by such a great margin (ie why we go missing!). All teams who are up for a period of time will eventually lose but usually not by 100 points. There have been a number of 100 point losses this year but not for any of the top 8. Just a week ago commentators (and Mick) were saying we'd turned the corner. Given our history in the past 6 seasons I see it as more of the same.

I'd like to agree that none of the top 8 have suffered such a loss, but i am afraid as a Cat fan that happened to us. For a side Geelong has had a good record against over the years, the Swans have pantsed us a few times since the mid 90's.

Think this was a perfect storm sort of game, Port seemed to get back their dare, run and mojo that they have been missing for a while, and the dogged determination of the last couple of weeks from your side was no match. Numerous kicks in the opening half landed in the laps of Port players around half-back and wing as the Blues tried to scramble from defence, and Port are deadly on punishing turnovers. Reckon in the mood they were in last night many other sides would have been smashed too.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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Why does White play forward?

He might get on the end of a couple but he doesn't lead or know how. He doesn't take pack marks. And he doesn't have a great kick on him.

I've never been much of a fan due to thinking we've got better options. But even I've had to acknowledge his contribution decent contribution in the backline.

So why is he playing forward?
 
Mar 20, 2002
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I don't feel bad at all today.
prisoner777 has a point though. we've done this for a number of years now. had some good games, teased us with good form, only for it to come undone. rinse&repeat. it's gonna take more than a handful of honorable losses to convince me we've turned the corner.


Fair dinkum, how far have we fallen as a club and as a supporter base when we are prepared to accept "honourable losses" as a pass mark ??

Sorry Kanye, I'm not interested in "honourable losses" at all as that is just being accepting of mediocrity, something the Saints are best known for.

C'mon, time to raise the bar a bit isn't it :

"it's gonna take more than a handful of solid wins against good opponents to convince me we've turned the corner"
 
I worry we find too many excuses for an issue that seems deep seated (this year's pattern largely repeats that of the past 5 seasons). When we look back at season 2014 we will be scratching our heads when we consider we lost to the bottom team 2 times, got smashed by Essendon and Port, had a swag of "honourable losses" and were cruelled by injury and two atrocious umpiring decisions when taking on Geelong.

Prisoner, last night was terrible no denying but I won't accept the criticism that is leveled considering what we have put up in the second half of the year. The losses to the bottom teams especially early killed us but we have been really solid for a couple of months now without landing the killer blow. I know people get upset after a loss but we have little to gain or prove right now so let's just move on to next year and the pre season. Last night was a night where nothing went right and everything they tried paid off.

It is the over reaction of people that I find puzzling, other teams have been crushed just as badly as us this year yet you would think on here we were the only team to put up a stinker this season.
 
I don't feel too bad this morning.

A bit of good sleep and some perspective can make all the difference. Port, a finals bound, very fit side with a plethora of players to choose from versus a depleted, inconsistent (at the best of times) side playing multiple youth and only just barely having enough players to field a side.... yeah. It was probably never gonna be pretty.

Some of the efforts were genuinely very disappointing though. For others, I think it was as much about lacking fitness than actual effort. Port players were able to give us the run around.

Gibba and Rowe were almost heroic last night. If not for their constant effort and winning their positions, I reckon we'd lose by 140+.

Sammy Rowe in particular, gee if he wasn't there, I hate to think what our defense would have looked like.

This!!!
 
Fair dinkum, how far have we fallen as a club and as a supporter base when we are prepared to accept "honourable losses" as a pass mark ??

Sorry Kanye, I'm not interested in "honourable losses" at all as that is just being accepting of mediocrity, something the Saints are best known for.

C'mon, time to raise the bar a bit isn't it :

"it's gonna take more than a handful of solid wins against good opponents to convince me we've turned the corner"

Sheik, none of us enjoy losing but what would you prefer a non honourable loss like St Kilda? It proves to me we are not that far off the top teams and I would rather that than being belted by them and truly knowing we are a mile off their level.
 
Mar 20, 2002
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Sheik, none of us enjoy losing but what would you prefer a non honourable loss like St Kilda? It proves to me we are not that far off the top teams and I would rather that than being belted by them and truly knowing we are a mile off their level.

I get that Tony but I am not prepared to accept losing under any circumstances, it is a cop-out and weak !!
 
I get that Tony but I am not prepared to accept losing under any circumstances, it is a cop-out and weak !!

So what is the solution Sheik, winning each week and every final to make it a pass mark?
 

95blues

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Prisoner, last night was terrible no denying but I won't accept the criticism that is leveled considering what we have put up in the second half of the year. The losses to the bottom teams especially early killed us but we have been really solid for a couple of months now without landing the killer blow. I know people get upset after a loss but we have little to gain or prove right now so let's just move on to next year and the pre season. Last night was a night where nothing went right and everything they tried paid off.

It is the over reaction of people that I find puzzling, other teams have been crushed just as badly as us this year yet you would think on here we were the only team to put up a stinker this season.

Personally I don't think that matters.

We've had little to gain since about round 5 this season, so if 103pt losses are meaningless than 5pt "honourable losses" are in the same bag.

Last night was definitely not a night where nothing went right, it was a night where nobody wanted to be on the field. It's not bad luck that we gave them almost 100pts off turnovers.

Not aiming this response at you, I just think there is plenty of reason to get really angry at this side. Yes we had a lot of youth out there tonight so some difficulty is understandable, but that doesn't excuse the leaders and more experienced players, who have refused to stand up at all this season.

I hope i'm wrong, but I don't see a change coming soon, I just hope the young guys coming in have a bit more heart than the leaders on their way into the sunset (waite, Carrots etc). Because if the habits of those guys have rubbed off.... its going to be a long 5-6 years.

I do like the fact that the guys seem to have developed a bit of a system/gameplan now, just need those switches across half back to be a little quicker and the execution a bit sharper and more decisive and we might start getting some clean forward 50 entries soon.
 
Personally I don't think that matters.

We've had little to gain since about round 5 this season, so if 103pt losses are meaningless than 5pt "honourable losses" are in the same bag.

Last night was definitely not a night where nothing went right, it was a night where nobody wanted to be on the field. It's not bad luck that we gave them almost 100pts off turnovers.

Not aiming this response at you, I just think there is plenty of reason to get really angry at this side. Yes we had a lot of youth out there tonight so some difficulty is understandable, but that doesn't excuse the leaders and more experienced players, who have refused to stand up at all this season.

I hope i'm wrong, but I don't see a change coming soon, I just hope the young guys coming in have a bit more heart than the leaders on their way into the sunset (waite, Carrots etc). Because if the habits of those guys have rubbed off.... its going to be a long 5-6 years.

I do like the fact that the guys seem to have developed a bit of a system/gameplan now, just need those switches across half back to be a little quicker and the execution a bit sharper and more decisive and we might start getting some clean forward 50 entries soon.

Hey entitled to your opinion and I certainly do not take it as being aimed at me.

All I am saying is that poor losses happen in each season to most clubs so it is important not to over react. 1995 was a long time ago but that was one of the greatest Carlton teams of all. Interesting to remember their only 2 losses that year were to the bottom 2 teams.
 

PuffDragon89

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Where the explanation needs to be is not on that we lost but why we lost by such a great margin (ie why we go missing!). All teams who are up for a period of time will eventually lose but usually not by 100 points. There have been a number of 100 point losses this year but not for any of the top 8. Just a week ago commentators (and Mick) were saying we'd turned the corner. Given our history in the past 6 seasons I see it as more of the same.
Geelong lost by over 100pts earlier in season.
 

ajb72

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first time to adelaide oval, and its a vast improvement on AAMI.
as for the game when rowe is your best then we are in trouble.
gibbs tried hard but was always under pressure and his kicking was ordinary when free. levi was a target but thats about it for positives.
as for the cfc, same old story. too many players make basic footy mistakes. whoever is our tackling coach needs to be sacked. too many who play nice football and scared to mongrel up.
menzel shouldnt have played. yarran has been on 1 leg for weeks.

port were good but i think that was due to a lack of pressure more than anything else. easy to look like a superstar when your opponent only comes near you when the ball is being moved back to the middle for a restart.
only other observations from watching live were how we dont compete for balls kicked in hope and let oposition mark unapposed far too often. and white is probably the best kick in the team, shame he doesnt get it enough.
 

BIGGUS 64

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Why does White play forward?

He might get on the end of a couple but he doesn't lead or know how. He doesn't take pack marks. And he doesn't have a great kick on him.

I've never been much of a fan due to thinking we've got better options. But even I've had to acknowledge his contribution decent contribution in the backline.

So why is he playing forward?

Trying to develop him as another swing man. :rolleyes:
 

fnm_just a man

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Fair dinkum, how far have we fallen as a club and as a supporter base when we are prepared to accept "honourable losses" as a pass mark ??

Sorry Kanye, I'm not interested in "honourable losses" at all as that is just being accepting of mediocrity, something the Saints are best known for.

C'mon, time to raise the bar a bit isn't it :

"it's gonna take more than a handful of solid wins against good opponents to convince me we've turned the corner"

There's a difference between sitting back and "accepting" these losses, and accepting them while acknowledging the reality of the situation. That reality is that we've played some pretty good contested footy over the last couple of months, and we're showing improvement. The club is in a good place. As the Cats' supporter noted and many of have touched on, last night was the 'perfect storm'. Applying accepting losses as "accepting mediocrity" is is a narrow-minded, irrational standpoint, under the current circumstances, as far as I'm concerned. Dare I say it, but the type of attitude that has been hurting us for the last 15 years.

We need another good offseason, but if we manage something similar to last year, I'm still expecting to give it a decent crack next year.
 
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first time to adelaide oval, and its a vast improvement on AAMI.
as for the game when rowe is your best then we are in trouble.
gibbs tried hard but was always under pressure and his kicking was ordinary when free. levi was a target but thats about it for positives.
as for the cfc, same old story. too many players make basic footy mistakes. whoever is our tackling coach needs to be sacked. too many who play nice football and scared to mongrel up.
menzel shouldnt have played. yarran has been on 1 leg for weeks.

port were good but i think that was due to a lack of pressure more than anything else. easy to look like a superstar when your opponent only comes near you when the ball is being moved back to the middle for a restart.
only other observations from watching live were how we dont compete for balls kicked in hope and let oposition mark unapposed far too often. and white is probably the best kick in the team, shame he doesnt get it enough.
Hate these sort of comments. You are right, but there are better ways to say this that doesn't sound like half a put-down on Rowe.
 

etsal1

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Some of the commentary this morning is hilarious.

Whilst I don't expect the " experts" or "analysts" to recognise our team had 11 players under 50 games and a handful of those under 10, we only had 25 players to pick from, our youngest/most inexperienced team in like a decade etc , claiming that we have no young talent and the worst list in the afl is a joke.

I saw a tweet where Lloyd asked who our are young players like Boak? Boak? He's older than Gibbs, Kreuz, Lachie, Yazz and all of our kids. He's played 150 games. Seriously.


Last night does not take away from our last 6 weeks. Last night was the perfect storm for a heavy heavy loss. Away from home, against a team fighting for top 4 who is fully fit. The boys are cooked mentally and physically. Mick said you can see it at training.

I can't see how our loss is any worse than losing to Brisbane by 60 points at the G.
 

gbatman

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Opened up big time. There was a huge gap between their skill level, speed, running ability in general and smarts. Out run, they they used the ball better than us, they were a lot more aggressive and physical than us and the pressure they applied was top shelf.

We were hopeless. We were let down by our top line players. As good as our better players are they don't compare with the leagues best, our top isn't all that high. Gibbs is our best player and he did alright but after that it's a steep slope down.

Some of our young players did alright. Our onballers were put to the sword, huge problems with a lack of quality in the midfield as there has been for a long long time.

Defence was shithouse, they didn't stick to their opponents and made too many mistakes. Tuohy was beyond bad.

We had no one worth worrying about up forward, Waite was mobbed and didn't hold many marks. Casboult has been useless for the last two months. No small forwards at all really.

Our young players, many of them look like they will be good honest capable players but I don't see too many real stars there. Not too many key players. Menzel and Cripps might be. We need a handful of players who would be up there for All Australian selection. Guys who are the best in the league at what they do or near to it, no one fits that category. Graham, Holman, Sheehan and Johnson all look like they can play AFL but I wouldn't expect any of them to be guns. Time will tell.

We're far too slow. Slow midifleders, no real quick forwards. Our quicker players were not really the quicker players on the ground, Port just blew us away.

Warning signs for a few players.

Jamison - apart from a handfull of games he looks cooked. Just looks in slow motion, doesn't do anything offensively, looking really slow and lacking intensity and run. As good as he's been for us, it's a shame we don't have a gun full back coming through because he'd be one you'd trade.
Lucas - handles the footy like he has no fingers, doesn't have skills by foot, didn't stand out at all.
Tuohy - Same boat as Jamison, can't run, has really poor intensity and doesn't hit the ball at pace, always gets tackled well because he doesn't have momentum or look to build it when he gains possession. Made some awful mistakes.
A few others who didn't stand up, Judd looked off, didn't have that speed and attack on the footy like he was holding back to wait for the others to do the jub and they didn't. Carrazzo, Bell and Simpson needed to step up for us to be a chance and they just aren't good enough, just bit players really that need stars who we don't have to play around.
 
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