Autopsy Rd 3 Carlton v Essendon Post Match Discussion

[Clubber79]

I'm not judging the irish experiments purely on Setanta, I'm basing it on every Irishman to have ever come over an played the game.

Jim Stynes, Sean Wight & Tadgh Kenneally were simply sensational players, there appears to be a big gap between them and the rest of the irish players.

Seems to be a small percentage of players overall that have been genuine success stories, a lot of them have only been 'okay'.

The ones who want to stay and make it generally go alright.
A lot of guys just get homesick and return to Ireland.
You seem to be branding anyone who doesn't turn out to be a Kennelly or Stynes as a failure.
I think picking up a completely new sport in your early twenties and having a professional career in it belongs in the 'success' category.
After all, what did it cost the club to get Tuohy, Sheehan and Byrne?

 

[JustaBattler]

Sheehan , Tuohey and Byrne - will all be playing as starting 22 players at Carlton - guns all of them.

 

[LordLucifer]

The ones who want to stay and make it generally go alright.
A lot of guys just get homesick and return to Ireland.
You seem to be branding anyone who doesn't turn out to be a Kennelly or Stynes as a failure.
I think picking up a completely new sport in your early twenties and having a professional career in it belongs in the 'success' category.
After all, what did it cost the club to get Tuohy, Sheehan and Byrne?

Just found an online list, there has been 52 players come over from Ireland thus far.

Wight played 150 games, Stynes 264, Kennelly 197, Setanta 88, Colm Begley 30, Martin Clarke 73, Pearce Hanley 96, Tuohy 76, & Niall McKeever 22.

The rest of them either failed to play a game or make double figures.

9 out of 52 is about 17%, don't know how that stacks up against the local lads though.

 

[Aphrodite]

That's not how the new tribunal system works, plus he knocked chapman out. He deserves more than two weeks, I'd be happy with three but think 4-5 is more likely. Just a real stupid decision by him, it's great he wanted to bring a bit of physicality into the game but that's not how you do it.

Chapman wasn't knocked out.

I didn't see a stretcher come onto the ground.

 

[Clubber79]

Just found an online list, there has been 52 players come over from Ireland thus far.

Wight played 150 games, Stynes 264, Kennelly 197, Setanta 88, Colm Begley 30, Martin Clarke 73, Pearce Hanley 96, Tuohy 76, & Niall McKeever 22.

The rest of them either failed to play a game or make double figures.

9 out of 52 is about 17%, don't know how that stacks up against the local lads though.

But we're talking about Carlton players.
If Setanta, Zach, Sheehan and Byrne were/are experiments, what does that say about the guys they're playing ahead of?
Sport is a meritocracy.
You get what you deserve.
Once you play a game of senior footy, you cease to be an 'experiment' in my view.

 

[ESKIE]

I don't get all this hysteria over yarran?

 

[thylacine60]

It's just a little strange in this largely post-thug AFL world to see an actual punch thrown. It doesn't happen any more.

 

[ESKIE]

Round arm swing, hardly a barry hall / staker incident

 

[GoBlues!]

Round arm swing, hardly a barry hall / staker incident

Unintentional, he meant to strike his shoulder. If you slow it down you can see Chappy drop his knees. What's the penalty for head butting a fist.

 

[lachie charm]

One of our Irish (Tuohy) is about to play his 50th consecutive game this week. That's a pretty good achievement for a player who grew up in Australia playing AFL, let alone on the other side of the world playing Gaelic Footy.

No point listing the collective fortunes of Irish players in the AFL. The club environment is what shapes their fortune along with their own work ethic & attitude. Unlike Hawthorn or Port, we haven't lost players to homesickness forever (Sheehan came back). Let's just enjoy being good at something - it's pretty rare.

 

[BluStreak]

Unintentional, he meant to strike his shoulder. If you slow it down you can see Chappy drop his knees. What's the penalty for head butting a fist.

ask Waite

 

[Nori]

The thing that most infuriated me about the game on the weekend was the way that Carlton defended around the ground in the period when Essendon piled on 7 goals to one. I reckon all over the ground there were Carlton players happily trailing their Essendon opponents to the ball and allowing them uncontested marks. There was absolutely no physical pressure on their opponents to turn the ball over.

By contrast, later in the game when they were pegging Essendon back Carlton were competing at every marking contest. They were actually sprinting to get a fist in rather than allowing uncontested marks. The whole energy level seemed to lift and the spread became much better, which in turn freed up players through the middle creating options out of defense, rather than just predictably playing wide.

They can talk about their talent deficiencies but it won't matter how much talent they have until they learn to play four quarters of footy. And when they do play a more contested brand of footy you know what.... their talent doesn't look too bad.

 

[Jatz]

Bit late on here but I'll give my 2c worth.

Really want to applaud Murphy. Started the game slow but I don't think anyone pushed through the game as well as him. Worked so much harder on Saturday which was great to see. Even that last goal they kicked, it was Murph on the last line of defense trying to stop it.

He's still obviously not where we'd like him to be but if he works that hard in every game this season, we'll be much better for it. Really thought he stood up quite well on the weekend

Apart from that, we're just not a very good football team. The boys showed a lot more spirit which was pleasing.

For all Armfield's faults, he has to be in the side. Not a greatly skilled player but you know he will give his all.

Cripps was good. Judd's goal excellent.

I knew all off season we'd struggle so I'm not too disappointed with where we're at. Just need to continue to plug away throughout the season.

 

[ajb72]

Good to see Essendon* cheat yet again.
Rules don't apply to them, so they break them at will.

So chappy goes off, obviously not concussed, but a bleeder like that takes time to stop bleeding. So they use the concussion rule to get a replacement player instead of having to be a rotation short.

 

[T2B_]

I look at it this way. I didn't see the game but did hear a fair bit on the radio, and it sounds at least like we did show some effort.

The list aint good enough, we know that, but if they at least show effort, that is something. I can handle losing as long as they show genuine effort and give all they have, even if what they have ultimately isn't enough.

Having said that, again I didn't see the game but it sounds like yet again we leaked like a sieve in red time, at least in the second quarter (?) and still were up to some of our old (bad) tricks

 

[fnm_just a man]

Byrne winning a couple of 1 on 1 contests in the last, against Goddard, was pretty impressive. By that, I don't mean he just spoiled the attempted mark. I mean spoiled, won the ground contest and took off to create play. Very composed - last line. Well done.

 

[Azul]

I look at it this way. I didn't see the game but did hear a fair bit on the radio, and it sounds at least like we did show some effort.

In the last quarter after Essendon had put the cue in the rack for next week then certainly. But even then there was no structure, with players bombing the ball at the sticks and hoping for the best.

But for the 3rd week in a row, we capitulated in the 2nd quarter. Faced with a 1/2 time deficit they failed to respond, again.

Mick and Barker say they're not going to rush the kids when the current group clearly ain't up to it. If subbing Curnow for Byrne is any indication, they should be a hell of a lot more bold when selecting the team.

 

[Jatz]

Byrne winning a couple of 1 on 1 contests in the last, against Goddard, was pretty impressive. By that, I don't mean he just spoiled the attempted mark. I mean spoiled, won the ground contest and took off to create play. Very composed - last line. Well done.

Thought he was really impressive. Picked up 9 disposals in his limited game time and was a breath of fresh air when he had the pill. Definite in next week.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Chapman wasn't knocked out.

I didn't see a stretcher come onto the ground.

You correct Aph. It was more of a mandatory 8 count before allowing the fight to continue. Although the cut above the eye might have resulted in a TKO.

 

[fnm_just a man]

Thought he was really impressive. Picked up 9 disposals in his limited game time and was a breath of fresh air when he had the pill. Definite in next week.

Yep... I was watching the play in our forward line and then noticed Byrne one-out with Goddard in defensive 50 ... Essendon* got possession and I just though 'oh Christ, poor kid'... Ball came down, still one-out at 50 with no support - spoiled, collected, ran off .... He really did lift a few around him with his run and enthusiasm I reckon. Played a significant part in our overall lift, if you ask me. Army had a similar effect.

 

[Blue since 72]

There appeared to be more effort or at least effort for longer which was nice.

Mostly individual highlights rather than team though. Two who stood out for me were Cripps who was excellent inside the contest and Armfield's comeback was also good. Walker's first game back was worthy too.

However the clearance differential vs the final score really shows up the impotency of both our delivery into the forward line and the productivity of the players there. Ball came back out far too easily and the Bombers moved it through transition much better as well. Same number of I50's (57) for 29 scoring shots (C) vs 25 yet we lose by almost four goals.

We still don't have enough good kickers in the team and while I believe Jones needs more game time and we should persist in the short term with giving him that he needs to start doing more on all fronts.

Need the ball in Yarran's hands more, his kicking was spot on but he only had the 10 disposals. Either he was well held and/or not working hard enough. Really hope Buckley comes in for Yazz this week.

There is an opportunity to post the first win this week. Lets see if the players actually want it

 

[LordLucifer]

Good to see Essendon* cheat yet again.
Rules don't apply to them, so they break them at will.

So chappy goes off, obviously not concussed, but a bleeder like that takes time to stop bleeding. So they use the concussion rule to get a replacement player instead of having to be a rotation short.

That's not cheating, its using the rules to your advantage.

I'd expect our people to do the same thing actually.

 

[ShanDog]

There appeared to be more effort or at least effort for longer which was nice.

Mostly individual highlights rather than team though. Two who stood out for me were Cripps who was excellent inside the contest and Armfield's comeback was also good. Walker's first game back was worthy too.

However the clearance differential vs the final score really shows up the impotency of both our delivery into the forward line and the productivity of the players there. Ball came back out far too easily and the Bombers moved it through transition much better as well. Same number of I50's (57) for 29 scoring shots (C) vs 25 yet we lose by almost four goals.

We still don't have enough good kickers in the team and while I believe Jones needs more game time and we should persist in the short term with giving him that he needs to start doing more on all fronts.

Need the ball in Yarran's hands more, his kicking was spot on but he only had the 10 disposals. Either he was well held and/or not working hard enough. Really hope Buckley comes in for Yazz this week.

There is an opportunity to post the first win this week. Lets see if the players actually want it

Pretty much spot-on assessment for mine. The number 1 problem we have is bad ball use.

If we get it in the F50, it's a 'nothing' kick that doesn't advantage our forwards and it comes straight back out. When we are hemmed in defensively, we can't hit a target coming out and it goes straight back over our heads.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

That's not cheating, its using the rules to your advantage.

I'd expect our people to do the same thing actually.

Doesn't anybody care about the spirit of the game?

 

[Blue since 72]

Pretty much spot-on assessment for mine. The number 1 problem we have is bad ball use.

If we get it in the F50, it's a 'nothing' kick that doesn't advantage our forwards and it comes straight back out. When we are hemmed in defensively, we can't hit a target coming out and it goes straight back over our heads.

A nothing kick is a perfect description. The ball needs to be in the hands of our few good kicks as often as possible.

Hacking it forward has got to stop.