..........yeah, but if you can't spell out Gatorade backwards....................you're dead meat to the dildo-man.
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Recruiters Performance
- Thread starter TigerTime88
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..........yeah, but if you can't spell out Gatorade backwards....................you're dead meat to the dildo-man.
- Sep 13, 2013
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- 62,592
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- North Melbourne
Eight years on and not a single player is still on your list from this draft. I'd rate it closer to 0 than 10.
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not really how it works. 8 years ago, and i doubt many players from that draft are still on a list.
Gumbleton aside, who was always going #2, from our second pick on, we missed: Tippett, MacKenzie, Dawes, Goldstein, Mackay, Schofield. Thomas, Gray. And only two of those were in the second round.
Davey was a good small forward. Jetta, Houli, Reimers could have been Tippett, Mackay and Gray. Take it any day of the week, but getting the picks right in the 3rd and 4th round isn't an exact science.
Gumbleton was unfortunate with his luck with injuries considering Selwood and Boak would have been great additions to our midfield.
But it would be similar to criticising GWS for taking Patton over Wingard. You don't go past key position talent like that.
troll? i don't get it.
Heppell, Carlisle, Hooker, Myers, Zaka, Hurley, Bellchambers, Zach Merrett, Gleeson, Hibberd. .
pretty decent recruiting there.
I do like Merrett but 2011 can't possibly be rated a 7/10.
2011 was largely a bust for most teams in one way or another, except for GWS who were afforded a shot gun.
- Nov 27, 2000
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That should be picked up (in most cases) by the recruiters though.
Stan The Caddy
Norm Smith Medallist
- Jan 26, 2013
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That's cool dude, I never said that Wells was the person who was mainly responsible for our success but he sure did play a part in it and you were asserting in your previous post that he was not as good as people make him out to be which I disagree with. Some of those aspects that you mention in relation to having a strong football team do have a bit to do with the recruiter aswell. It's not as simple as them just going out and picking the best player at their pick, but as you say there are other aspects that they have nothing to do with which help in creating a good team aswell.
I have no idea what Balme said 2 years ago so I'll take you at your word on that but what I do know is that when C.Scott came to the club he believed that we didn't need to bottom out whilst we were transitioning our list and part of that strategy was looking to bring in FA's aswell as trading cos lets face it, if we decided to go exclusively through the draft then at some point we would bottom out, particularly in the modern climate of FA and a larger volume of player movement. We're attempting to evolve with the changing times but we're obviously a couple of years away from finding out whether we've been able to achieve our goal of transitioning our list without sliding too far. So far the signs look positive and make no mistake, Stephen Wells has played a key role in this.
Thanks for your kind words regarding Menzel. Fingers crossed he can get back out there next year and run around with his mates again. It would make alot of Geelong supporters extremely happy and I'd hate to be the team playing against us in his come back game, I reckon we might be up for that one.
swansfan51
Brownlow Medallist
- Jun 3, 2007
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I did an audit of Beatson's performance since 2005. If you take the average of all players drafted in each year, and the average games played by his draftees, the average beats him most years.
- Jun 19, 2006
- 10,020
- 18,380
- AFL Club
- Geelong
The problem with judging Geelong's 1st picks is that they're way later than most clubs. Picks 15+ are far from guarantees of being gun players. Of those 4 you mention Smedts clearly has a lot of talent but is yet to put it all together. Hamling's a bust but he was pick 32 in a compromised draft. Both Thurlow and Lang it's too early to judge but there's plenty to work with.
But even in just 2010 and 2011 he's picked up good players. Guthrie looks a really good player while Horlin-Smith, Blicavs and Murdoch are all best 22 already. Then there are guys like Walker, Kersten, Bews, Smedts and McCarthy who have plenty of talent and any of them could still be good players. So 3 and 4 years on from those drafts we've got 1 gun, 3 best 22 players with big upside and 5 unknown quantities from 2 compromised drafts where we didn't have early picks. Really that's very good going.
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- Nov 17, 2011
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- 10,109
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- North Melbourne
In four drafts Geelong have only picked up solid b graders and handy types; defend the selections all you want but I think Wells is no longer the 'recruiting god' many supporters here have labeled him as. It used to be that any discussion of best recruiters would start and end with Stephen Wells, but I now think we can all agree that he is merely a good recruiter and nothing special.
A club that deserves a mention is Freo; the last two drafts can be filed under the "too soon" category (except for Josh Simpson of course), but look at some of this value from the 2008-2011 drafts.
Pick 58: Lachie Neale
Pick 71: Cameron Sutcliffe
Rookie 8: Lee Spurr
Pick 20: Nathan Fyfe
Rookie 8: Michael Barlow
Pick 53: Michael Walters
Also the correct answer is Adelaide, by far.
A club that deserves a mention is Freo; the last two drafts can be filed under the "too soon" category (except for Josh Simpson of course), but look at some of this value from the 2008-2011 drafts.
Pick 58: Lachie Neale
Pick 71: Cameron Sutcliffe
Rookie 8: Lee Spurr
Pick 20: Nathan Fyfe
Rookie 8: Michael Barlow
Pick 53: Michael Walters
Also the correct answer is Adelaide, by far.
- Jun 19, 2006
- 10,020
- 18,380
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- Geelong
Interesting that for Freo it's too early to judge the last 2 drafts yet for Wells you've already judged the last 2 drafts (or are you saying Duncan, Christensen, Menzel and Motlop are only solid b-graders or handy types?).
If you think Guthrie and Caddy (traded but still a Wells decision) will only ever be solid b-graders then I guess I'll let the next few seasons decide that. I'm pretty confident they'll be significantly better than just b-graders. There's a few others that show plenty too but we'll just see how they develop. Of course you could've made your statement about just about any of Geelong's drafts. None of Bartel, Ablett, Kelly, Corey, Ling, Chapman, Hawkins, etc were any better than someone like Guthrie after a few seasons. There's no reason to think Geelong's recent recruits would do what those guys couldn't. We'll just have to wait and see if our recent recruits develop. History suggests they're a decent chance to.
Agreed that Freo had a very successful period there. It should set them up well for the next 5 years or more.
- Nov 17, 2011
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I'm not saying that these Geelong drafts have been bad, just that even the best case scenario for Geelong won't have them at the top of the list; Some clubs have just been that strong (Adelaide, Fremantle, Hawthorn, Essendon, Sydney, Port Adelaide, North Melbourne and the Bulldogs to name a few). Obviously anything can happen, yet do you honestly think it's realistic that in 10 years time we'll be looking at Geelong's drafting from 2010-2013 as the strongest over that time period?
Also I didn't think to include Caddy, not sure he should count. For what it's worth, he is in my opinion your best chance of an A-grader.
Stan The Caddy
Norm Smith Medallist
- Jan 26, 2013
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All I think this is, is a case of tall poppy syndrome. It happens sometimes, particularly with supporters from minnow clubs and I don't mean any disrespect by that but it's just the way it is.
You say in 4 drafts all we've picked up is solid B graders. If you can't see how short sighted that view is then I'm not sure how else I can explain it to you other than to say that it's far too early to be making any firm judgements on any of them, particularly when you consider that they came to a club with a strong list where a/ they aren't going to get as many opportunities as other players at weaker clubs will and b/ when they do get an opportunity all they're expected to do is play their role or as you say be solid B graders. This doesn't mean that they're not capable of becoming something more in the future as they continue to grow and are given more responsibility as some of our senior players decide to retire.
Since the 06 draft the highest pick that he's had is 15. I mean, just think about that for a second. He's done an amazing job of finding some really good prospects to help keep our team near the top of the ladder without any high picks whatsoever in the last 8 years. A pretty good effort I think.
And you saying that Caddy shouldn't count in this discussion is just another example of either your inability to see the bigger picture or possibly just trying to twist the facts in order to suit your own argument which IMO is quite flawed.
- Aug 18, 2009
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Matt Rendell joined as the Crows recruiter in 2007, alongside David Noble and Hamish Ogilvie despite never having a pick inside the top 10 he put together a pretty decent record until his departure in 2012. Bolded are players I think have been good value for us relative to their pick:
Might be too early to say with a few of those players, and a couple who have gone on to have a solid impact elsewhere. Not sure that it was Rendell's role per se but we had a pretty solid record with trading during that period too with S. Jacobs, J. Jenkins, E. Betts, T. Lynch all coming in and making strong contributions to the side.
Might be too early to say with a few of those players, and a couple who have gone on to have a solid impact elsewhere. Not sure that it was Rendell's role per se but we had a pretty solid record with trading during that period too with S. Jacobs, J. Jenkins, E. Betts, T. Lynch all coming in and making strong contributions to the side.
Disagree, more pressure on getting right. You cannot predict how good a player becomes because of elite junior performance.
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Bears own this thread.
TheJaegerBomb
Cancelled
- Aug 22, 2012
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I doubt anyone has stuffed up a top 10 selection because they 'felt too much pressure'. There JOB is to predict. It is what they are paid to do haha!
I am telling you now it is a hell of a lot easier to find a player in the first ten picks or first round then after that. Hence why they should be judged on the players they unearth that others didn't think of or want. Pretty simple is it not?
Asgardian
Bigfooty Jedi
Rendell was not responsible for getting Taylor Walker
He was taken late as a NSW scholarship player who was brought to the crows by Fantasia ... It didn't take much getting as he was a mad crows fan
- Nov 17, 2011
- 2,750
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The "it's too early argument" basically makes this whole "recruiters performance" thread moot, or at-least only applicable to a period where a lot of clubs would have since changed recruiters. Yes you've drafted well, but I offer you to look at the drafting summary posted by the Adelaide supporter above. That's the standard, filling out a squad with role players and handy contributors is nice, yet adding 7 AA quality players over 5 years is the standard to which recruiters should be held.
Also Hawthorn has been in the same situation over the past four years, and has added Langford, Isaac Smith, Brad Hill and Puopolo. Their depth constantly dominate in the VFL, and If you want to add Caddy to your group, does Gunston get added to theirs as well?
In 2014, it's ridiculous to place Wells on a pedestal compared to other recruiters. Others are just as good, if not better. Maybe Thurlow and Jansen will in time become AA's and I'll look like an absolute idiot, yet from what I've seen, I think the footy world definitely over hyped Stephen Wells.
Grockadoc
Brownlow Medallist
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It is also hard to judge a Recruiters performance, without factoring in facilities, resources and development staff that goes along with it.
A recruiter cannot pass or fail on his own. A recruit can only take the players that he has seen show capabilities of being an AFL player.
Without having the resources and facilities to adequately develop a player in the AFL system, a recruiter may look to have failed when that player might have been a gun at a different club.
Melbourne is a perfect example of this. They had so many players taken in the first round turn into poor players due to a poor culture and development system. Put those same players into a Hawthorn, Geelong or Collingwood development system and things would most likely be a different story.
For me, whilst recruiters are important to a club's overall success, it is player development staff that are the most important in list management.
A recruiter cannot pass or fail on his own. A recruit can only take the players that he has seen show capabilities of being an AFL player.
Without having the resources and facilities to adequately develop a player in the AFL system, a recruiter may look to have failed when that player might have been a gun at a different club.
Melbourne is a perfect example of this. They had so many players taken in the first round turn into poor players due to a poor culture and development system. Put those same players into a Hawthorn, Geelong or Collingwood development system and things would most likely be a different story.
For me, whilst recruiters are important to a club's overall success, it is player development staff that are the most important in list management.
