Recycled Players: Premiership Players?

[Ralll]

I think last season, Dimma got the best out of this list he possibly could, we cant go higher than about 5th with this list.
We simply had to get all these recycled players into the squad, to get rid of the dead weight that was on our list.
Why we have started this season with so little intensity is probably a mistake on Dimma's behalf, not concentrating on the basics enough, over rating the players and generally trying to get us too quickly to a higher level in the gameplan.

I think Hammer was a mistake taking him at 29(?), Steph and Derrickx/) would have been fine as cover for Maric. We need these higher draft picks for the future quality/grunt players.

 

[fargothegreat]

I think the majority of people on this board underrate Petterd. He has been the best of the RP so far this year

 

[Tiger71]

recycled.
Aaron Edwards, Miles, Banfield, Houli, Grigg, Maric, Knights, Hampson, Gordon, Petterd, Thomas, Chaplin, Stephenson. All came from other clubs. And you can throw Morris, Lloyd and King in there as well as mature recycled players.
Have we fallen into the Spud days where he overrated the list after one finals year and tried to top up? Granted, we haven't drafted Billy Nichols or Tim Flemming, but it's damning.
It either shows we have not got the confidence to develop our youth or that we haven't got the confidence in any player we draft after pick No 20.
Or is there a logical explanation?
Out of that list above only Houli, Maric and Chaplin (the Chaplin of 2013, not 2014) have been worthwhile so far. Time will tell on the others (I have my mind made up on a few), although I consider Morris a success and King has played his role.
Meanwhile good draft picks such as Ellis, Conca and Vlastuin seem to have stagnated this year.
Please discuss. Where is the list headed with names like this?
I will repeat: One-third of our list is recycled.

I agree and disagree

To me at least it says the club wanted to get competitive and have some mature aged players to help our younger players on and off the ground. Keep in mind we had 2 compromised drafts as well as a really soft draft last year to do this. Look at Melbourne, we could have gone down the same path, ignored recycled players and recruited youth that may or may not make it and throw them to the wolves, which in turn would shatter our confidence and culture at the club.

While we have been building, we have been competitive, and down right dangerous in some matches, all the while having recycled players on our list. Dimma 100% is in the hawks and cats mind set where he wants our kids to learn there craft in the ressies, be mindful our own reserve side started this year. Out of the players you listed, the only ones that have played more then 5 games for us have been Grigg, Houli, Edwards, Pettered and Chaplin.

So out of 3 years we have really only used 4 recycled players consistently and the rest come in and out of the side as needed. It looks like we have found also three players that you really cant call recycled as they meet the age req of our list and did not get a real opportunity till coming to us in Loyd, Morris and Gordon, also keep in mind Gordon was to be re picked up by the swans but we beat them to the punch.

At the end of the day, recycled players does not mean permanent players. I would not be surprised come the end of the year we let a few of them go as we reinvest in this years draft. Also Hampson is looking like a really astute pick at 32 ? great value and with maric in the side, can see him really blossom.

To me, we cant judge this a success or failure till we at least get to go through two non compromised drafts and see how many "recyclables" we have left.

 

[_DBF_]

I think the majority of people on this board underrate Petterd. He has been the best of the RP so far this year

He's the only R.P on the list

 

[nobulltiger]

I think the majority of people on this board underrate Petterd. He has been the best of the RP so far this year

Thomas is light years ahead of Petterd.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Thomas is light years ahead of Petterd.

Rubbish.
Thomas can only tackle.
That's it.
His disposal is so poor that he puts his teammates under pressure whenever he dishes it off.
Petterd can play at either end, is good overhead, and gives it his absolute all every single match.

 

[nobulltiger]

Rubbish.
Thomas can only tackle.
That's it.
His disposal is so poor that he puts his teammates under pressure whenever he dishes it off.
Petterd can play at either end, is good overhead, and gives it his absolute all every single match.

Thomas has a better disposal than Cotchin

Stats are facts. Take a look.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Thomas has a better disposal than Cotchin

Stats are facts. Take a look.

That's because most of his disposals are handballs which go directly to a Richmond player (counted as efficient)
Doesn't mean his disposals are useful.

Stats don't lie, but they are misleading.

 

[thefendoff]

Thomas has a better disposal than Cotchin

Stats are facts. Take a look.

might b so but i reckon thomas' disposal would probably be worse than cotchins if he had blokes hanging off him every time he got the ball...

 

[nobulltiger]

That's because most of his disposals are handballs which go directly to a Richmond player (counted as efficient)
Doesn't mean his disposals are useful.

Stats don't lie, but they are misleading.

He is very effective in more than just the tackle!

If it wasn't Thomas getting the ball under a pack and effectively hand balling it to a team mate , we would be a lot worse off!

 

[nobulltiger]

might b so but i reckon thomas' disposal would probably be worse than cotchins if he had blokes hanging off him every time he got the ball...

He does more often than not

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

He is very effective in more than just the tackle!

If it wasn't Thomas getting the ball under a pack and effectively hand balling it to a team mate , we would be a lot worse off!

I'm not bagging Thomas, I think he's been a good addition.
However, with players like this, we won't move forward.

Sad but true.

Matt Arnot should be doing the work that Thomas does.

 

[thefendoff]

He does more often than not

no he doesn't! he ends up with more space than most cause they hang off him like they do with grigg to let them kick the ball. other teams know they will cough it up most times.

 

[Barnzy]

Aaron Edwards, Miles, Banfield, Houli, Grigg, Maric, Knights, Hampson, Gordon, Petterd, Thomas, Chaplin, Stephenson. All came from other clubs. And you can throw Morris, Lloyd and King in there as well as mature recycled players.

Bolded I think aren't good enough to be apart of a top 4 side pushing for a flag or I have question marks on. Very close to bolding Chaplin too as his form this season has been rubbish. Went from a very good, solid, reliable back to a clanger and decision making error waiting to happen.

A lot of players have suddenly regressed and gone backwards all at once making this approach seemingly feel like we've gone overboard and the list suddenly looks very average.

 

[Neen]

All the recruiters have done is attempted to emulate Sydney's success with recycled players, but without the COLA. Also, Hawthorn have done very well recruiting players to fill the need.

We needed experience - Houli, Morris, Grigg
We needed a ruckman - Maric, Hampson, Stephenson
We needed a classy forward - Knights

Chaplin was recruited to assist Rance, and it was a good move, but in isolation, Chaplin needs Rance.

Petterd was always an interesting pickup. Not know as being a positional player, this remains a mystery.

Thomas and Miles were recruited as backup mids. Thomas to fill the Tuck role. Gordon and Lloyd to succeed King.

I still think Houli, Maric and Morris were very astute recruits.
I think Grigg, Edwards and Stephenson are cooked.

Knights is the wildcard - if we can get him fit, he will be the classy forward we need. Petterd could also be in the same category.

We have had 5 years of compromised drafts, so we were forced into this situation like all the other clubs (except GWS & GCS). Every year of the compromised drafts, our first rounder was a gem. Lennon will be no different. Now the kids should be played - but the kids have to prove themselves.

In two years, I would hope that only Houli, Morris, Maric and Hampson (and Knights if he can regain fitness) would be regulars in the side. The jury is still out on miles, Lloyd and Gordon.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Bolded I think aren't good enough to be apart of a top 4 side pushing for a flag or I have question marks on. Very close to bolding Chaplin too as his form this season has been rubbish. Went from a very good, solid, reliable back to a clanger and decision making error waiting to happen.

A lot of players have suddenly regressed and gone backwards all at once making this approach seemingly feel like we've gone overboard and the list suddenly looks very average.

wat. How is Maric not good enough? How do you know Knights isn't? He kicked 40 goals one year, he is plenty good enough. Morris??? Seriously? Last year he was fantastic, how do you write someone off just because hes had a poor start?
Nearly all of those players could easily be in a premiership winning flag, not just all at once.

 

[thefendoff]

miles lloyd and gordon will probably end up being the best of the recycled players. If only we could upgrade miles now

 

[MR]

Bolded I think aren't good enough to be apart of a top 4 side pushing for a flag or I have question marks on. Very close to bolding Chaplin too as his form this season has been rubbish. Went from a very good, solid, reliable back to a clanger and decision making error waiting to happen.

A lot of players have suddenly regressed and gone backwards all at once making this approach seemingly feel like we've gone overboard and the list suddenly looks very average.

I think Maric is good enough to push for a flag. Last year Hawks had Bailey in their premiership team, Cats had West/Blake, Pies had Jolly, Saints had King/Gardiner. The current Maric is far ahead of every single one of them when they were in their prime.

 

[nobulltiger]

I'm not bagging Thomas, I think he's been a good addition.
However, with players like this, we won't move forward.

Sad but true.

Matt Arnot should be doing the work that Thomas does.

Well, I guess I have that reaction because I feel like the only one on this board who likes this guy in our team. He's become a whipping boy for absolutely no reason even though he's most likely in the top 4 of our best and fairest right now (Only the unbiased will see).

Arnot is a forward pocket that should be rotating but mainly FP, this though is just my opinion.

 

[nobulltiger]

no he doesn't! he ends up with more space than most cause they hang off him like they do with grigg to let them kick the ball. other teams know they will cough it up most times.

He's right in the congestion, all the time, opposition breathing down his neck and he breathing down theirs. of course he does!

 

[theflea]

I think Maric is good enough to push for a flag. Last year Hawks had Bailey in their premiership team, Cats had West/Blake, Pies had Jolly, Saints had King/Gardiner. The current Maric is far ahead of every single one of them when they were in their prime.

There is always a player that opp fans thinks in isolation aren't very good. happens all the time.

 

[tigerz18]

as dimma said, every draft since he took over has been comprmised. when GWS and GC have taken 50% of all the gun kids for 4 years, there's not much left to go around, especially for a club that has bottomed out. i have no issue wiht the recruitment over this time, as a) he got us into finals, b) he built a team to play competitive footy, while developing high draft picks, ready to get to this, the first non-compromied draft, which is this year.
those players that have come recycled, will go in the next few years, but only when we have been able to draft in more than 1 decent player a year

 

[RunningBounce]

I agree with most that we needed to recruit “recycled” players, given the compromised draft and the state of our list in 2010. I also agree some of these recruits are keepers and part of our next premiership tilt. We might have gone one season too far though.

However, I’d suggest the recycled players aren’t the major problem this season. In fact, they are some of our better performers right now.

Offering a discarded player another chance makes them play above themselves. You get a massive effort from a bloke who is looking at his own AFL mortality. Let’s call it “The Year of the Polished Turd Effect”. Matt Thomas, as limited as he is, is a much better footballer in 2014 than he was in 2013. Ditto Grigg’s first season as a Tiger. We could all list half a dozen examples.

The problem is that the player who has played above themselves for one season reverts. Effort doesn’t compensate for genuine limitation.

The recycling will bite us next season, and the one after. We will have few retiring players, and the better clubs don’t delist a large number of players at the same time.

As of Round 5 2014, with Rance and Deledio out, we only have one player in our 22 that Champion Data rated as elite in 2013. Riewoldt is arguably already elite by different measures. We have 3 or 4 recent high draft picks who could make the step to elite, but the next tier under that is mostly populated by turds that are only getting less polished. And Ben Griffiths.

 

[RunningBounce]

Open question to all. I've seen on a few threads complaints about us getting players from other clubs "recycled " & questions being asked as to, why we can't develop our own ?

Absolutely agree that getting mature, “good people” types in the team and around the club helps. I’d like to think that this is part of the strategy. Time in the VFL, surrounded by big bodies and strong minds, is not a bad thing for some.

Two players from the 2008 draft come to mind, immediately -Steven Motlop (5 AFL games in his first 3 seasons), compared to Jack Watts (40 games in his first 3 seasons).

I also think that some players need the AFL exposure to develop properly.

It’s about balance, and I reckon we have tipped the balance just a little too far.

 

[Barnzy]

I think Maric is good enough to push for a flag. Last year Hawks had Bailey in their premiership team, Cats had West/Blake, Pies had Jolly, Saints had King/Gardiner. The current Maric is far ahead of every single one of them when they were in their prime.

I agree. Dunno why I bolded Maric. Accident.

wat. How is Maric not good enough? How do you know Knights isn't? He kicked 40 goals one year, he is plenty good enough. Morris??? Seriously? Last year he was fantastic, how do you write someone off just because hes had a poor start?
Nearly all of those players could easily be in a premiership winning flag, not just all at once.

Knights kicked 40 odd goals in 2009, that's 5 years ago. He's nearly 28 and has has only managed 5 games out of 28 odd for us. He's had sickening injury after sickening injury and is perennially injury prone. Who knows how he comes back from his latest one. At this stage he's a write off and anything he contributes is just a bonus.

Morris is one of the most overrated players on our list. All he has is the bull at a gate mentality and that doesn't always work out in regards to effectively defending a smart, agile small forward. His skills and decision making are a liability and probably bottom 5 at the club. The fact he got a 3 year extension paints a sad picture for our small defenders stocks.