Reform of the federation.

[madmug]

just in case you can't scroll up:

"tassie has fabulous agriculture that could rival NZ globally, it has fabulous mining assets and it has great tourism potential. both primary industry and tourism can co-exist but the tasmanians would need to change their culture to see that."

Primary industry & Tourism can/do co-exist. Its the split between politics of mass forestry & the dark greens which creates the storms. The rest of us are stuck in the middle. This place needs an integrated forest industry, just not the cowboys who ran Gunns.

Tassie does have a unique environment, its potentially quite lucrative for tourism. Whatever the future for this place it is not in mass anything. Mass mining, mass forestry, mass tourism. It will be based on being different, & on a mix of well run & integrated industries like agriculture, aquaculture, tourism & forestry. Also some bigger industry like zinc production, paper mills & Cadburys chocolate & beer with cascade & boags, also quality wine, which all employ good numbers.

Big issues like costs of transport via Victoria & the level of the A$ are big drag factors.

Otherwise we will all move to the house next door to PR

 

[Power Raid]

Primary industry & Tourism can/do co-exist. Its the split between politics of mass forestry & the dark greens which creates the storms. The rest of us are stuck in the middle. This place needs an integrated forest industry, just not the cowboys who ran Gunns.

Tassie does have a unique environment, its potentially quite lucrative for tourism. Whatever the future for this place it is not in mass anything. Mass mining, mass forestry, mass tourism. It will be based on being different, & on a mix of well run & integrated industries like agriculture, aquaculture, tourism & forestry. Also some bigger industry like zinc production, paper mills & Cadburys chocolate & beer with cascade & boags, also quality wine, which all employ good numbers.

Big issues like costs of transport via Victoria & the level of the A$ are big drag factors.

Otherwise we will all move to the house next door to PR

well said

Tassie has so much potential and your right it will be an amazing mix which should bullet proof it.

The questions are, why is Tassie in the state it is and what is required to get Tassie back on its own feet again? Personally, I think it needs to feel some pain to motivate its government and its electorate.

 

[madmug]

well said

Tassie has so much potential and your right it will be an amazing mix which should bullet proof it.

The questions are, why is Tassie in the state it is and what is required to get Tassie back on its own feet again? Personally, I think it needs to feel some pain to motivate its government and its electorate.

It gets in that 'state' due to the high $A, the high cost of transport via Victoria, also we continually lose the brightest & best to head office in MelbSydBris. We have politicians who are effing gutless, but probably reflect the gulf between those wedded to the past & those who see a different future. They try to play both side of the field. The current lot have a real problem between helping forestry recover & spending too much to do it.
We also have most things owned by interests in Melb/Syd/Bris who look for short term gain & care little about whats left, look at the Tas Rail saga for that!

We are an island with typical island concerns, we are heavily affected by, but have no control over world economics, mainland business interests & mainland politics ( greens V pro business).

Perception too makes a difference. With many big islanders (you lot!) that is generally negative, & wrong. People always like to think they are better off than someone else. So its easier to point at the little guy & criticise without knowing any facts.

Simple really.

 

[Power Raid]

It gets in that 'state' due to the high $A, the high cost of transport via Victoria, also we continually lose the brightest & best to head office in MelbSydBris. We have politicians who are effing gutless, but probably reflect the gulf between those wedded to the past & those who see a different future. They try to play both side of the field. The current lot have a real problem between helping forestry recover & spending too much to do it.
We also have most things owned by interests in Melb/Syd/Bris who look for short term gain & care little about whats left, look at the Tas Rail saga for that!

We are an island with typical island concerns, we are heavily affected by, but have no control over world economics, mainland business interests & mainland politics ( greens V pro business).

Perception too makes a difference. With many big islanders (you lot!) that is generally negative, & wrong. People always like to think they are better off than someone else. So its easier to point at the little guy & criticise without knowing any facts.

Simple really.

The only way to fix the $ long term would be to not use the AUD. This is a serious comment; Tassie should use the NZ$. The economies are more similar. That doesn't mean become part of NZ but using a NZD or a currency pegged to the NZD would help.

 

[poller]

With the government bypassing the parliament with the fuel excise , Abbott showed he is not looking for a mature debate, its only his way no one elses

 

[madmug]

The only way to fix the $ long term would be to not use the AUD. This is a serious comment; Tassie should use the NZ$. The economies are more similar. That doesn't mean become part of NZ but using a NZD or a currency pegged to the NZD would help.

Some constitutional issues their me thinks.

Another thing is that sure Tassie gets GST largesse, but we dont benefit from Gument spending on defense, all other states have bases & building facilities, which support business. Also years of Gument support for cars, other local manufacturing was also paid for by us, with no businesses here being helped by that, so it was all out going & SFA benefit.
People conveniently forget such effects.
Getting rid of excise duties killed our important textile industries, but no other businesses were assisted because they were in other states. The EU killed our fruit industry which affected this place more than other states, it all adds up over time.

 

[Pessimistic]

With the government bypassing the parliament with the fuel excise , Abbott showed he is not looking for a mature debate, its only his way no one elses

What debate when libs have been talking huge rises in gst internally for s few years now. Just looking for the right opportunity to do australians over

Either that or tony honestly believes he can just repeat the howard govt agenda and have no honest appraisal about what the country needs now

 

[Pessimistic]

The only way to fix the $ long term would be to not use the AUD. This is a serious comment; Tassie should use the NZ$. The economies are more similar. That doesn't mean become part of NZ but using a NZD or a currency pegged to the NZD would help.

That is what alot of the world is experiencing, that economies should be more localised, not wrapped up into a global economy which is unresponsive locally

 

[Power Raid]

Some constitutional issues their me thinks.

Another thing is that sure Tassie gets GST largesse, but we dont benefit from Gument spending on defense, all other states have bases & building facilities, which support business. Also years of Gument support for cars, other local manufacturing was also paid for by us, with no businesses here being helped by that, so it was all out going & SFA benefit.
People conveniently forget such effects.
Getting rid of excise duties killed our important textile industries, but no other businesses were assisted because they were in other states. The EU killed our fruit industry which affected this place more than other states, it all adds up over time.

your probably right

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/coaca430/s51.html

and

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2007C00565/Html/Text#_Toc56834736


ps. the second Act includes the reason why parking fines are invalid

 

[Pessimistic]

A good sprinkling of inter state rivalries shows the difficulty of such things

 

[_007_]

You live in a state full of mouth breathers in fluro vests with no other discernible skill than that of being able to dig s**t up and it's Tassie that has a cultural problem?

I work underground with no discernible skills except digging ('boring') holes. Luckily my wallet doesn't give two *s what degree I don't have, so why do you? Did not pick you for one to discriminate based on someones mode of employment/a stereotype Gough.

Fine..remain the backwater you lot are over there.

You know I have never heard a person from WA say 'yeah * those Eastern state people/places'. Other than siphoning money away from us you are simply not relevant to our existence

We could secede tomorrow and be better off. Could you?

Backwater.

 

[telsor]

You know I have never heard a person from WA say 'yeah **** those Eastern state people/places'. Other than siphoning money away from us you are simply not relevant to our existence

We could secede tomorrow and be better off. Could you?

Yes, and unlike you lot, we can say that for every year since federation.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Get rid of local councils would be a good start.

 

[_007_]

Yes, and unlike you lot, we can say that for every year since federation.

Ok

 

[madmug]

Get rid of local councils would be a good start.

No get rid of the middle man. State Guments are the potholes of Federalism. We should have a National Government & an expanded roll for local Gument.

In this day & age of instant communication & jet aircraft we dont need a colonial model of Gument.

Its funny how pollies talk of change & efficiencies yet they never talk about the elephant in room, the ancient outmoded structure of the Federation itself.

 

[Power Raid]

less councils - 6 for a city like perth is about right
bigger state governments
smaller federal government

we need to decentralise power and keep the option of moving state in the case of a rogue or failed government. voting provides power but the ability to walk is the most power a citizen has. If our most powerful and inportant government is federal we, as citizens, are stripped of that power as it is harder to move country than it is to move state.

 

[madmug]

less councils - 6 for a city like perth is about right
bigger state governments
smaller federal government

we need to decentralise power and keep the option of moving state in the case of a rogue or failed government. voting provides power but the ability to walk is the most power a citizen has. If our most powerful and inportant government is federal we, as citizens, are stripped of that power as it is harder to move country than it is to move state.

Well we will have differ over that.

I just dont see the advantage of 7 areas of Gument all doing their own thing. Its just a silly system that no one would start if one were starting a system right now.

Local Gument is ideally placed for local issues. Two tiers is the more efficient system in anyones books.

Cut out the middle man.

 

[screech]

Best thing a reformed federation could have is national daylight saving.

Anyone who thinks 5 timezones in summer is a good idea is crazy....National daylight saving keeps it to 3.

We are a large land mass, you cannot stop the world turning

 

[screech]

less councils - 6 for a city like perth is about right
bigger state governments
smaller federal government

we need to decentralise power and keep the option of moving state in the case of a rogue or failed government. voting provides power but the ability to walk is the most power a citizen has. If our most powerful and inportant government is federal we, as citizens, are stripped of that power as it is harder to move country than it is to move state.

I tend to think that the issue is more that there are not enough states. NSW, VIC and even QLD & WA need to be broken down further. At the moment NSW & VIC dwarf the rest population wise (and historically revenue wise).

Recently WA have been contributing more than their fair share of revenue. I do find it amusing when they complain about this - most of their history they have been propped up by the eastern states, now they seem to think there is a big injustice.

 

[Power Raid]

Well we will have differ over that.

I just dont see the advantage of 7 areas of Gument all doing their own thing. Its just a silly system that no one would start if one were starting a system right now.

Local Gument is ideally placed for local issues. Two tiers is the more efficient system in anyones books.

Cut out the middle man.

I grew up in SA, so I guess I appreciate the importance of being able to pick up and leave bad government. For me, it was easy as all I had to do was leave the state.

My grandparents didn't have such luxury when fleeing communism. They had to leave everything behind and flee europe, which resulted in a splitting of the family with some settling in the US, some in Oz and some trapped behind the iron curtain. Fortunately the family was reunited in the 90s just before they died.

 

[Redalert]

Are the states even relevant nowadays? Most state actions are effectively run through Canberra anyway, and there's a fair amount of difficulty in creating and co-ordinating policies between the different state governments, particularly when there's opposing parties in power which resist policies for the sake of it. Look at the Gonski reforms as an example, it was a massive pain to negotiate different education packages for every state, its far simpler to just give the portfolio to the federal government so we can actually have a uniform education system.

 

[Power Raid]

Are the states even relevant nowadays? Most state actions are effectively run through Canberra anyway, and there's a fair amount of difficulty in creating and co-ordinating policies between the different state governments, particularly when there's opposing parties in power which resist policies for the sake of it. Look at the Gonski reforms as an example, it was a massive pain to negotiate different education packages for every state, its far simpler to just give the portfolio to the federal government so we can actually have a uniform education system.

gonski was a disaster and a perfect example of how important states are to protect the service provision of education from desperate federal governments

 

[Redalert]

gonski was a disaster and a perfect example of how important states are to protect the service provision of education from desperate federal governments

Its fractured implementation was partially the result of resistance from the states, if the federal government was able to put into force a unified national policy it would've avoided some of the issues surrounding it. My main issue is that there's problems which arise when the federal government funds a policy area which is technically a state power, you get a disconnect between what the state's want and and the intent of those providing the funds.

 

[pokerspiv]

What can Tasmania do to contribute?

What industry can it sustain?

Remove all the crazy Green regulations and we might find out some day.

 

[pokerspiv]

That doesn't mean s**t though. What is wrong with theirs (and SA's) cultures that need to be changed in order for the states to thrive in your opinion? This whole "cultural" problem thing is sounding pretty empty when you can't even identify what aspects of these states' cultures need to be changed.

The cultural problem is the ridiculous opposition to primary industry and sense of entitlement that the rest of Australia should fund Tasmania to remain a giant nature reserve.