Reform of the federation.

[Redalert]

Oh dear me

Pink bats anyone?

That desalination plant down in Wonthaggi? Government incompetence occurs at every level, state or federal.

 

[Taylor]

As opposed to Germany or the United States? The councils in Western Australia are nothing more than small local authorities.

The reality is that the states can't reasonably be disbanded (without political fracture and secession). The duplication of services and confusion is only brought about through seizing of power. The only pragmatic solution is clarification and bringing about a sustainable fiscal arrangement.

Id argue Australia doesn't have enough politicians, we are especially poorly represented at a Federal level.

When the federal government pushed back the responsibility to fund health and education there was a massive backlash.

I wonder what national projects we could undertake if our federal government wasn't picking up the bill for the services it didn't have power over.

Yeah, funding black holes like education and health would take a hit but every kid doesn't need a computer or multi million dollar lab to learn and I don't think the extra billions have shown much value unless you're a re-elected education/health minister.

 

[Power Raid]

That desalination plant down in Wonthaggi? Government incompetence occurs at every level, state or federal.

Yep agree

Thus the importance of being able to vote with your feet.

 

[Power Raid]

When the federal government pushed back the responsibility to fund health and education there was a massive backlash.

I wonder what national projects we could undertake if our federal government wasn't picking up the bill for the services it didn't have power over.

Yeah, funding black holes like education and health would take a hit but every kid doesn't need a computer or multi million dollar lab to learn and I don't think the extra billions have shown much value unless you're a re-elected education/health minister.

Some people have a vested interest in not seeing the Feds limit their involvement in these services.

Oh the power of lobby groups

 

[telsor]

Some people have a vested interest in not seeing the Feds limit their involvement in these services.

Oh the power of lobby groups

Having fed and state allows them to play one off the other, especially when they're different parties.

Simplifying that system cuts the potential for pork barrelling, thus lobby groups would oppose it.

 

[Pessimistic]

The other aspect of this is whether work is done by public bodies or by private.

Weve moved away from wholly public and im not convinced the efficiencies have been realised.

We have some very recent examples of projects gone horribly wrong, but in most cases the work was carried out by private organizations.

Im not advocating a return to the previous setup. But in the infrastructure space, the pace of change is increasing, but our abilityto make these changes is going to be hamstrung by our very poor project record

I believe private industry is very efficient internally, its just there sseems to be no natural inclination to spend the money it gets from the public purse wisely. Often its a matter of how much they can get out of it for the least return.

Not sure how to fix this, but it will be a major brake in making our soceities more efficient and therefore better

 

[pazza]

Privatisation has been a total flop.

No matter what has been privatised, ultimately the consumers have been by poorer services and higher costs.

 

[Redalert]

Privatisation has been a total flop.

No matter what has been privatised, ultimately the consumers have been by poorer services and higher costs.

Airlines?

 

[Taylor]

Can you show that higher costs are a result of the privatisation and not a result of inflation and the resulting natural upward progression at exponential rates?

 

[Maggie5]

Airlines?

Affect on Ansett and the subsequent cost to taxpayers?
I must admit however it is strange how Ansett went under and yet current budget airlines are prospering.

 

[The_Reaper]

Affect on Ansett and the subsequent cost to taxpayers?
I must admit however it is strange how Ansett went under and yet current budget airlines are prospering.

They're not. They're owned by bigger airlines and are getting propped up to capture market share

 

[Maggie5]

They're not. They're owned by bigger airlines and are getting propped up to capture market share

Fair enough, prospering was the wrong choice of word.

 

[Redalert]

Affect on Ansett and the subsequent cost to taxpayers?
I must admit however it is strange how Ansett went under and yet current budget airlines are prospering.

What cost? They went into administration because they weren't able to adapt? Your average consumer is far better off now, just look at how cheap air travel is.

 

[Power Raid]

Privatisation has been a total flop.

No matter what has been privatised, ultimately the consumers have been by poorer services and higher costs.

yep

the 70s Australia was so much better

 

[pazza]

Airlines?

Even for the airlines.

Look at QANTAS itself.

Money is flowing out of it so fast it could easily collapse.

Maintenance is being done offshore, which is directly impacting upon the safety of the aircraft in use. Had it remained in Government hands, we would still have the world's safest airline (which is far more important than profits)..and have many more people employed by it.

And yes things were a lot better in term s of service delivery in the 1970's and 1980's than they are now.

Say your power goes out for some reason. The SEC for all of their faults, were pretty quick to restore power to you. The current power companies tend to take a lot longer.

Same with the water companies. Heck even some gas companies struggle on that front.

Let's then look at Telstra. They were pretty cheap under the Government. Privatised? Well they are now the most expensive. And their service delivery is problematic at best.

People need not look at just profits when it comes to privatisation.

 

[Taylor]

I think the best method is for entirely private enterprises to operate power, gas and water but for the government to be majority share holder of each.

Or we could get all three for free and pay way more tax?

 

[Redalert]

Even for the airlines.

Look at QANTAS itself.

Money is flowing out of it so fast it could easily collapse.

Maintenance is being done offshore, which is directly impacting upon the safety of the aircraft in use. Had it remained in Government hands, we would still have the world's safest airline (which is far more important than profits)..and have many more people employed by it.

And yes things were a lot better in term s of service delivery in the 1970's and 1980's than they are now.

Say your power goes out for some reason. The SEC for all of their faults, were pretty quick to restore power to you. The current power companies tend to take a lot longer.

Same with the water companies. Heck even some gas companies struggle on that front.

Let's then look at Telstra. They were pretty cheap under the Government. Privatised? Well they are now the most expensive. And their service delivery is problematic at best.

People need not look at just profits when it comes to privatisation.

Qantas runs a financially unviable enterprise with excessively high labour and maintenance costs relative to the other players in the market, that's why they're bleeding money and currently trying to restructure their business. Had it in remained in government hands airfares would've been far steeper than they are today, to the extent that people could barely afford air travel. That's the entire point behind deregulation, when its done correctly it benefits consumers by introducing competition in previously uncompetitive markets, lowering prices for everyone.

That's not looking at profits, that's looking at how it benefits our average consumer.

 

[Taylor]

Qantas runs a financially unviable enterprise with excessively high labour and maintenance costs relative to the other players in the market, that's why they're bleeding money and currently trying to restructure their business. Had it in remained in government hands airfares would've been far steeper than they are today, to the extent that people could barely afford air travel. That's the entire point behind deregulation, when its done correctly it benefits consumers by introducing competition in previously uncompetitive markets, lowering prices for everyone.

That's not looking at profits, that's looking at how it benefits our average consumer.

But in his example the government picks up all those costs so everyone can subsidise the air travel and telecommunications (telstra example) of those who use them.

 

[Power Raid]

Even for the airlines.

Look at QANTAS itself.

Money is flowing out of it so fast it could easily collapse.

Maintenance is being done offshore, which is directly impacting upon the safety of the aircraft in use. Had it remained in Government hands, we would still have the world's safest airline (which is far more important than profits)..and have many more people employed by it.

And yes things were a lot better in term s of service delivery in the 1970's and 1980's than they are now.

Say your power goes out for some reason. The SEC for all of their faults, were pretty quick to restore power to you. The current power companies tend to take a lot longer.

Same with the water companies. Heck even some gas companies struggle on that front.

Let's then look at Telstra. They were pretty cheap under the Government. Privatised? Well they are now the most expensive. And their service delivery is problematic at best.

People need not look at just profits when it comes to privatisation.

I'm all for what you say, and would support the closure of discount airlines. the only problem is most people wouldn't be able to afford to fly qantas or fly at all just like the 70s and 80s where flying was still a luxury good.

 

[Jiska]

That desalination plant down in Wonthaggi? Government incompetence occurs at every level, state or federal.

That would be the desal the Liberal opposition, with the aid of the HS, pushed Labor in to building.

Another classic example of hypocrisy.

 

[telsor]

That would be the desal the Liberal opposition, with the aid of the HS, pushed Labor in to building.

Another classic example of hypocrisy.

How so?

 

[Jiska]

Qantas runs a financially unviable enterprise with excessively high labour and maintenance costs relative to the other players in the market, that's why they're bleeding money and currently trying to restructure their business. Had it in remained in government hands airfares would've been far steeper than they are today, to the extent that people could barely afford air travel. That's the entire point behind deregulation, when its done correctly it benefits consumers by introducing competition in previously uncompetitive markets, lowering prices for everyone.

That's not looking at profits, that's looking at how it benefits our average consumer.

Are we talking about privatisation or deregulation, because the two are very different topics.

 

[Elroo]

They're not. They're owned by bigger airlines and are getting propped up to capture market share

Bigger foreign government owned/controlled airlines.

 

[telsor]

Bigger foreign government owned/controlled airlines.

Governments in countries where labour is much cheaper, and offshoring jobs to take advantage of that wouldn't be a political nightmare.

 

[mottrain]

Bigger foreign government owned/controlled airlines.

What government owns virgin.