Bumped Relax- We will make the 8!!!!! (New posts from #134)

[MarkT2]

I agree we aren't top 4 but our best should see us compete with the Geelongs and Norths of the world top 6 isn't out of the question should all go right.

Not with our 2015 list unfortunately. Too much inexperience and not enough pace and footskills for the modern game. North have passed us and in reality, apart from the second half of 2010 and the first half of 2011, Geelong have always been ahead of us and we have slipped further than they have. IMO that puts us clearly outside the top 6. Time will tell of course.

 

[Buckley is my hero]

Not with our 2015 list unfortunately. Too much inexperience and not enough pace and footskills for the modern game. North have passed us and in reality, apart from the second half of 2010 and the first half of 2011, Geelong have always been ahead of us and we have slipped further than they have. IMO that puts us clearly outside the top 6. Time will tell of course.

Greenwood was North's best player in the final against Essendon. Now we have him playing for us. Geelong continue to bleed players and the players still there and playing great football are past their prime. Doesn't stretch the imagination to believe we are capable of competing against the North Melbournes and Geelong. The gulf is between us and the top four or five sides which include Hawthorn, Sydney and Port Adelaide.

 

[MarkT2]

Geelong were better than us last year and we have lost Beams who is a much better player than Greenwood. We have lost more experience. Our list isn't as good as it was last year. Maybe Geelong will slide a bit further but they will have our measure over the season IMO. Young sides are always up and down.

 

[Markfs]

Nickelback is touring next year...... this is not a good omen for our premiership chances

 

[Tbone McGraw]

Nickelback is touring next year...... this is not a good omen for our premiership chances

Do our players play better when they are excited about Nickelback arriving?

 

[Markfs]

Do our players play better when they are excited about Nickelback arriving?

No, Nickelback is likely to deaden the emotions of the whole city for a long period....

 

[Gone Critical]

Lol we should not have won the flag in '10 really - before halfway during that season we were DEFINTELY second rung behind geelong but in the space of about 10 weeks we went from outside contenders to premiers. A lot can happen in a very short time, especially with a young team.

Wrong. I always hate the thoughts people put up about Collingwood only winning because some other team had misfortune. We are the kings of misfortune. We have had more bad luck in the last week than anyone. We were clearly the best team in 2010. June premiers ? Well give us 70, 72, 77, 11.

It's an anathema to me any talk of 2010 not being deserved. Utter crap. It was just a fantastic effort from MM downwards. It was hatched over a number of years. The only injustice I see is that team didn't win at least another. It should have on talent. MM needs to look at his 2011 performance big time. Still trying to diminish the flag we did get just gets me. We deserve more flags not less.

 

[Buckley is my hero]

Wrong. I always hate the thoughts people put up about Collingwood only winning because some other team had misfortune. We are the kings of misfortune. We have had more bad luck in the last week than anyone. We were clearly the best team in 2010. June premiers ? Well give us 70, 72, 77, 11.

It's an anathema to me any talk of 2010 not being deserved. Utter crap. It was just a fantastic effort from MM downwards. It was hatched over a number of years. The only injustice I see is that team didn't win at least another. It should have on talent. MM needs to look at his 2011 performance big time. Still trying to diminish the flag we did get just gets me. We deserve more flags not less.

I've always wondered if we played McGough in the 2002 GF instead of Davis, would we have won the 2002 premiership?

 

[spartan-magpie]

Look we are not on the same page and until next year plays out we won't know who is right or if it's somewhere in between but I don't know how you could base an assessment than we are better than Geelong given we have lost more than them and they were better last year and have been in every year since 2006 bar 2010. They just have a better list. Yes they are dropping off from where they were but we already dropped off and hard. Similarly, on what basis are we better than Freo? They will both play finals IMO and Freo will be very strong top 4 challengers. GC had our measure last year and with Ablett would have played finals. We may be thereabouts with them if everything goes right but I think they will have us covered. Richmond have finished above us 2 years running. It is only hope and reliance on history that puts us above them.

As for the gulf between us and Hawthorn, it is vast and it IS insurmountable for 2105. They had a lot of injuries and were still well out of our league. We blamed injuries for finishing 11th and they had injuries and win the flag (again). They are ahead of us on every line in class and depth. Sydney won't be far off them IMO.

On geelong, I think the nails on the coffin for them are Christiensen, Varcoe and balme leaving.

Blame for me signals the end of their great era. Geelong will still be a quality side and will be competitive, but the older brigade will struggle next season and I don't thing their youngsters show enough to suggest they'll be punching these older guys out anytime soon.

 

[MarkT2]

I've always wondered if we played McGough in the 2002 GF instead of Davis, would we have won the 2002 premiership?

The more obvious out was Molloy given he couldn't move let alone kick.

 

[MarkT2]

On geelong, I think the nails on the coffin for them are Christiensen, Varcoe and balme leaving.

Blame for me signals the end of their great era. Geelong will still be a quality side and will be competitive, but the older brigade will struggle next season and I don't thing their youngsters show enough to suggest they'll be punching these older guys out anytime soon.

They are ahead of us which is all the matters right now. The players they have lost aren't half of Beams and they were better than we were last year.

 

[Horaceg]

Po

They are ahead of us which is all the matters right now. The players they have lost aren't half of Beams and they were better than we were last year.

One Beams does not make a Collingwood team

 

[spartan-magpie]

They are ahead of us which is all the matters right now. The players they have lost aren't half of Beams and they were better than we were last year.

Beams will be offset by Levi to a degree. Taylor Adams getting another ps under his belt will help, Sean being injury free will be like having a new recruit. Have some players getting a sustained run will improve us by 3-4 goals a game.

Geelong, to me, seem to have done as well as they could last year. I don't see where their improvement will come. Hawkins and Clark are going to find it tough when no ball is being put down their throats. Relying on jimmy to hold the team together or Taylor to be mr fixit just shows that they are very vunerable.

Across the board -player for player I think we have a better list with a much larger scope for inprovement.

A lack of injuries alone will put us well ahead of the cats.

I'll do a player v player comparison at some stage and explain to you what I think in regards to us having the better squad.

 

[MarkT2]

One Beams does not make a Collingwood team

Sure but he sure as hell improves one and his removal sure as hell lessens one. He's the best player to change club this off season and the second best for quite some time unless you count Thomas at his best.

 

[MarkT2]

Beams will be offset by Levi to a degree. Taylor Adams getting another ps under his belt will help, Sean being injury free will be like having a new recruit. Have some players getting a sustained run will improve us by 3-4 goals a game.

Greenwood is not on the same planet as a player and Taylor wouldn't get a permanent game at a top 4 side IMO. Two ok players never ever make up for gun and that's why clubs no longer take 3 good players for one gun. The whole reason I was so keen to keep Beams is hat in all probability we won't replace him. Top end players are just too hard to get.

Geelong, to me, seem to have done as well as they could last year. I don't see where their improvement will come. Hawkins and Clark are going to find it tough when no ball is being put down their throats. Relying on jimmy to hold the team together or Taylor to be mr fixit just shows that they are very vunerable.

If Clarke is physically and mentally up to it he is a huge inclusion for side short a tall forward like they were. Of course he may not do much either but they also have a few tall forward options coming back from injury. The thing is if they don't improve they are still ahead us . That is my point and why we are not tip 4 or even in that range. We traded out of the top 4 last off season year let alone this year.

Across the board -player for player I think we have a better list with a much larger scope for inprovement.
A lack of injuries alone will put us well ahead of the cats.
I'll do a player v player comparison at some stage and explain to you what I think in regards to us having the better squad.

We may or may not have more upside but across the board in 2015 Geelong are ahead of us forward, back and on the ball plus they have more exposed depth - and Geelong probably won't make the top 4 either.

We won't finish top 6 and top 8 will be very tough. I have us 10th-12th and that is even if we start well. We will be up and down based on age and experience and the up is on the assumption that a fair bit goes right on and off the field.

 

[Horaceg]

Greenwood is not on the same planet as a player and Taylor wouldn't get a permanent game at a top 4 side IMO. Two ok players never ever make up for gun and that's why clubs no longer take 3 good players for one gun. The whole reason I was so keen to keep Beams is hat in all probability we won't replace him. Top end players are just too hard to get.
If Clarke is physically and mentally up to it he is a huge inclusion for side short a tall forward like they were. Of course he may not do much either but they also have a few tall forward options coming back from injury. The thing is if they don't improve they are still ahead us . That is my point and why we are not tip 4 or even in that range. We traded out of the top 4 last off season year let alone this year.
We may or may not have more upside but across the board in 2015 Geelong are ahead of us forward, back and on the ball plus they have more exposed depth - and Geelong probably won't make the top 4 either.

We won't finish top 6 and top 8 will be very tough. I have us 10th-12th and that is even if we start well. We will be up and down based on age and experience and the up is on the assumption that a fair bit goes right on and off the field.

Glass half full or half empty, I got past Beams leaving as tough as it was and as good as he was but for me the glass is half full and filling. A fit Swan and Reid on the park makes us better than last year, I choose to believe Swan is still one of the best in the competition despite last years output, same goes for Reid. The young guys will start to make an impression with more game time and with Beams leaving there is an opportunity.

As a long time Collingwood supporter, I struggle to go into a new season believing we are going to be worse than the previous year before it has even started. Call me "One Eyed" but next year is full of opportunity.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

If injuries permit, I think we could. Another injury run like this year? No chance.

 

[Gone Critical]

Glass half full or half empty, I got past Beams leaving as tough as it was and as good as he was but for me the glass is half full and filling. A fit Swan and Reid on the park makes us better than last year, I choose to believe Swan is still one of the best in the competition despite last years output, same goes for Reid. The young guys will start to make an impression with more game time and with Beams leaving there is an opportunity.

As a long time Collingwood supporter, I struggle to go into a new season believing we are going to be worse than the previous year before it has even started. Call me "One Eyed" but next year is full of opportunity.

Agreed. Ther is room for improvement from 2014-2015 for many senior players which is where out move up the ladder can come from. I would look to Reid, Swan, Fasolo, Toovey, Williams, Brown all being better in 2015 as they will not be as held back by injury concerns. Cloke is the other. Was great 2011-13 but dropped offin 2014. A player of his class still in his prime can be expected to bounce back from a lesser season. It is not guaranteed but with a better injury ru n without senior players 2015 should be better than 2014 so. Finals have to be on the cards.

 

[Prestige Presti]

They say it's between 50-100 games that a player truly starts to show sharp improvement, when we look at our list....

Alex Fasolo-52 games
Jamie Elliot-52 games
Ben Sinclair-44 games
Taylor Adams-43 games
Lachlan Keeffe-40 games
Marley Williams-37 games
Paul Seedsman-37 games
Josh Thomas-32 games
Jarrod Witts-27 games

That's a huge number of players about to take off and reach that zone, and that's without mentioning Langdon, Grundy, Karnezis, Kennedy, Broomy, Frost, Freeman and Shazza, all players with immense talent that we have to look forward too, and Crisp, Ox, Marsh, Ramsey and Gault which could be anything. Port Adelaide experienced their jump when their core group of young players got to around this mark, some very exciting times ahead for the club.

 

[MarkT2]

Of course some players get found out when they hit that 50-100 game mark and some of ours will fly while others will fall. Port aren't a common example though. Their fall and rapid and strong rise was an exception more than a rule and also coincided with a large scale administrative and coaching change as well as successful targeted recruitment. We aren't really comparable to Port on a lot of fronts.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

They say it's between 50-100 games that a player truly starts to show sharp improvement, when we look at our list....

Alex Fasolo-52 games
Jamie Elliot-52 games
Ben Sinclair-44 games
Taylor Adams-43 games
Lachlan Keeffe-40 games
Marley Williams-37 games
Paul Seedsman-37 games
Josh Thomas-32 games
Jarrod Witts-27 games

That's a huge number of players about to take off and reach that zone, and that's without mentioning Langdon, Grundy, Karnezis, Kennedy, Broomy, Frost, Freeman and Shazza, all players with immense talent that we have to look forward too, and Crisp, Ox, Marsh, Ramsey and Gault which could be anything. Port Adelaide experienced their jump when their core group of young players got to around this mark, some very exciting times ahead for the club.

This is the reason why I think 2016 or the year after will be our year. The bolded group are the ones that need more games if we are to be a really damaging team. The names you mentioned will improve us, but once we can add some of the bolded group into that mix, we'll be dangerous.

 

[Blueboy75]

Personally maybe the Pies aren't a top 6 side next season but I put you guys in the running for the 7th&8th spots.The departures of the likes of Beamsy&Harry may hurt but for me Greenwood who is one of the underrated players in the league will be a big pick up for the Pies.Yes as we know you need many things to go right for you as any other club,but if you can get your best 22 on the park for the majority of the season I don't see why the Pies can't threaten to make the bottom of the eight.

 

[jackcass]

Richmond beat weak sides in thee back half of the year they can't beat a good side. Essendon with or with out doping bans aren't much showed that on ANZAC day. I can't be bother going through all those sides but I have no doubt we will beat all those sides if we played fully fit at the G.

Sydney in Sydney?

 

[THATSGOLD]

I expect teams like GC and Brisbane to go past us in 2015. Port Geelong Hawks Swans Freo all better. I see us in the Carlton Western Bulldogs West Coast range of ladder.
Melbourne Saints at the bottom again.

 

[jackcass]

I feel that far too many opposition fans remember the second half of the season in which our form nose dived and we had a lot of big injuries to contend with, yet no one remembers our first half.

I don't want to blame injuries for our poor season but we started off having to compensate for injuries which on the positive side gave a lot of inexperienced players (Frost, Langdon etc) heaps of exposure which we'll benefit from big time this season IMO. However I think the fact that we had to contend with major injuries from the get go and subsequently had to throw a heap of inexperienced players into the deep end contributed to a few players burning out as the season progressed, the fact our injury list also progressed just exacerbated this problem big time.

Losing Beams is huge we lost a definite A grader, whist we didn't get a like minded replacement I do think Greenwood and Varcoe add better balance to the side. I also think that if Swanny can get his body right he can get back near his 2012-13 form which will help cover losing Beams, I also think that Freeman has the potential to really add something to this side too. Also if Reid can stay fit our forward line should be far more potent with him taking the burden off Cloke, this would also free White up to play third tall which is what we signed him for in the first place.

At the end of the day there is a more obvious top four in this league that on paper stand far above the rest of the competition, after that I really don't think are any teams we have any reason to fear.

EFA.

Yes the Hawks, Swans etc would appear to have a clear lead over the other sides but everyone starts 2015 with a clean slate, 0-0 on the ladder. Who know's what sort of year these teams will have in terms of declining ageing players and injuries.