Religion

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HARKER said:
Hope creates meaning? Really? The truth doesn't but hope does? Each to their own I guess..

Here's a much better speaker when on the topic of religion.



One of the most articulate speakers I've come across.
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I'm more a Hawking guy myself. I find his speech synthesiser far more reassuring for my world view.
 
HARKER said:
I like listening to science but let's face it.........ego gets in the way through most facets of life.

Always cautious of any speaker given they're all open to having their own agenda...........Maybe Dawkins loves selling books also.

I don't though like those that sell something on the platform of hope........faith.........belief.............They're likely to be full of their own s**t.
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I don't like people who sell anything.

If your word (be it faith-based or arguing the opposite) is important, it shouldn't come with a price tag.
 
Kudos to this board though for holding an intelligent and reasonable debate on societies most divisive topic. Brave to even have it in my opinion.

For what it's worth I have no definitive view to be honest, one way or another ( I know fence sitter ). I tend to lean towards the science however.

All I know for fact is that life is short. Don't be bogged down by scripture. Enjoy life for the best things it has to offer and do you're best to ride it's lows. Surround yourself with people worthy of your time and move on the oxygen thieves.

I think I just created my own religion and that will do me.:D
 

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The whole science vs religion thing i avoid as much as possible. Both sides of the argument exploit it for personal gain unfortunately. I used to enjoy reading Richard Dawkins stuff, but i've gone off him as he's clearly in it to make a bunch of money and often resorts to straight up religion bashing. Sure, we get it, you don't believe in it (as many others don't too), but you don't ridicule them for having those beliefs.
 
Sublime said:
The whole science vs religion thing i avoid as much as possible. Both sides of the argument exploit it for personal gain unfortunately. I used to enjoy reading Richard Dawkins stuff, but i've gone off him as he's clearly in it to make a bunch of money and often resorts to straight up religion bashing. Sure, we get it, you don't believe in it (as many others don't too), but you don't ridicule them for having those beliefs.
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And that's the main thing that gets me angry when these conversations go south, either on forums like this or just in general - all too often the conversation becomes littered with personal attacks.

Ok, we get it, atheists. You think religion is dumb. How about not looking down on the religious people as somehow sub-human.

And religious folk... for God's sake... you aren't helping your cause by ignoring arguments that don't suit your point of view. It would also be a good idea to avoid theological discussions if you haven't studied theology...
 
Sublime said:
The whole science vs religion thing i avoid as much as possible. Both sides of the argument exploit it for personal gain unfortunately. I used to enjoy reading Richard Dawkins stuff, but i've gone off him as he's clearly in it to make a bunch of money and often resorts to straight up religion bashing. Sure, we get it, you don't believe in it (as many others don't too), but you don't ridicule them for having those beliefs.
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That's not exactly the case at all through live sessions but he can get fired up, given the illogical questions that come his way. I would too.

It makes for a lively debate but at least Dawkins sides with logic, whereas others attack him for not believing what they believe in. :)
 

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HARKER said:
How does one naturally follow the beliefs of the parents or the society they've been raised in?
How can it mathematically possible to have a 100% Muslim following in Muslim countries.............That's impossible in a world where one has choices.
We think we're free but we carry heavy expectations of those that come before us and so on and on.

I recall questioning God when I was a kid and was terrified to tell my folks that I didn't want to go to church anymore......******* terrified.
I should have never been in a position where I had to be terrified but I was and many still are today................That's not very nice.
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There isn't a country that's 100% the same religion. As you'd suggest, it's impossible.

To be completely honest, that says more about the people than the religion.
 
HARKER said:
How can a sentient being not question it? I honestly don't know how one can shut oneself off to personal observation for the writings of ancient man.

If you hadn't have heard of god (usually the one you've been raised on a diet of) would you believe in one? I presume not and if you did, it certainly wouldn't be any of the ones that we've been handed down. It couldn't be.
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I have questioned it. My faith remained stronger than any doubts I had.

Probably not. I can't really answer that though as I have heard of God.
 
HARKER said:
I'm sure I won't be making any friends pushing this topic too hard and that's a shame in itself, how people can get so defensive for their (?) beliefs.
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Hence the amount of war the world over. Through history, religion would be far and away the main reason for conflict. Just goes to show that humanity the world over will never get their collective heads around the fact that we are all the same.
Acceptance of different ideas doesn't come easy to the majority of us. Unfortunately, it's the way we are wired.
 
HARKER said:
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Look at that right hand column and tell me people are free to make choices.

Those percentages won't be around most Western nations but nevertheless.......

Greek = Greek Orthodox.
Israel = Jewish etc.

Tell us what what says about us and the religious freedom we're afforded.
It's not as clear cut to make choices as it may seem to look. Many of these choices are made for us before we've even drawn breath....and that's disgusting.
Hang on...........let me re-phrase that: It's disgusting to me.
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For the vast majority, no one is forcing them to hold on to their religion (obviously there is exceptions). It's just that they don't question it. Grown adults are free to do what they want.

Those choices are made for you as a child. Not as an adult (you're living proof by the sounds of it).
 
HARKER said:
How does that quote go, again?

Bad people will do bad things.
Good people will do good things.

Religion is the only device that can make good people do bad things.
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Also disagree. Blaming religion is a cop out.

If people took more responsibility for their actions, you'd hear less of 'religion made me do it'.
 
Jatz said:
I would argue we aren't all the same - and that's the beauty of humanity.

It gives me great peace to know that Harker and I can disagree on this but still live happy in our own decisions/beliefs.
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Personality wise correct, but should one individual believe he is a better man than another because of what they worship?

I'm not saying everybody operates this way but more than enough do, thats how these issues raise their ugly heads.

We have politicians in charge who make policy based on their religious beliefs. How does that serve us all?
 
Jatz said:
For the vast majority, no one is forcing them to hold on to their religion (obviously there is exceptions). It's just that they don't question it. Grown adults are free to do what they want.

Those choices are made for you as a child. Not as an adult (you're living proof by the sounds of it).
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In many of these countries - is islam or literally a death sentence.
 
TGR said:
Personality wise correct, but should one individual believe he is a better man than another because of what they worship?

I'm not saying everybody operates this way but more than enough do, thats how these issues raise their ugly heads.

We have politicians in charge who make policy based on their religious beliefs. How does that serve us all?
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No, he shouldn't. But there's lots of things we do everyday that we shouldn't. I'm not suggesting it's right in the slightest - it isn't.

That's becoming less and less common. The earth is far more accepting of differences now than what it was 15 years ago. In 15 years time, I doubt any 'religion' will come into the political equation.
 
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