Religion

TGR

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No.

These ISIS guys are evil. Do all muslims run around beheading people? Of course they don't.

Humans are evil. Show me where (in any religion) it says that people should be killed? Beheaded?


There are many quotes in the old testament about murdering people for all sorts of reasons. Swearing at your parents and for being gay as just 2 examples.
 
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...how people can get so defensive for their (?) beliefs.
Simple answer to a complex question, but a good place to start - people's beliefs are often linked to their identities. When someone ridicules what you identify as central to who you are, it can be quite confronting.

If you hadn't have heard of god (usually the one you've been raised on a diet of) would you believe in one? I presume not and if you did, it certainly wouldn't be any of the ones that we've been handed down. It couldn't be.
It's actually the opposite that's true I think. Regardless of what form that 'God' make take, people always have and always will search for meaning in their lives and for answers to the 'how and why does anything exist?' questions.

Hence the amount of war the world over. Through history, religion would be far and away the main reason for conflict.
I always find this perspective hard to believe and see it as extremely cynical. Religious ideals may be the selling point or 'public message' for a lot of conflicts (and in some cases, the whole reason), but it's most often just the catalyst for those who want conflict to enlist the help of those they need. The real reasons for conflict is almost always greed/power, in some shape or form.
 

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That's becoming less and less common. The earth is far more accepting of differences now than what it was 15 years ago. In 15 years time, I doubt any 'religion' will come into the political equation.

I pray for want of a better word that you're right.

However thats just not going to happen. Religion has dominated the political landscape for thousands of years and will continue to do so in ways that will not always be obvious.
 
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For the vast majority, no one is forcing them to hold on to their religion (obviously there is exceptions). It's just that they don't question it. Grown adults are free to do what they want.

What about cultural pressures in a society where the religion forms part or all of the law, or places where there are drastic consequences from becoming completely isolated to persecuted to executed. In many cases the choice is be this way or die. This can be extended from Muslim majority nations in the middle east, the subcontinent, and northern africa to the sectarian wars in ireland, to the fighting in Sudan.

Its far too simple to say "choose good and be good" when your life and livelihood isnt on the line.
 
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I pray for want of a better word that you're right.

However thats just not going to happen. Religion has dominated the political landscape for thousands of years and will continue to do so in ways that will not always be obvious.

Australia is fairly removed from the christian politics that plagues America, i can see it being irrelevant in Australian politics pretty soon. The US...never.
 
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What about cultural pressures in a society where the religion forms part or all of the law, or places where there are drastic consequences from becoming completely isolated to persecuted to executed. In many cases the choice is be this way or die. This can be extended from Muslim majority nations in the middle east, the subcontinent, and northern africa to the sectarian wars in ireland, to the fighting in Sudan.

Its far too simple to say "choose good and be good" when your life and livelihood isnt on the line.
Yes, I've conceded already that it isn't always the case.

And again you're right. It's easy to sit there and say that when my head isn't on the line.

However, there were 21 Christians that were beheaded yesterday that prove that they still get the choice.
 

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I always find this perspective hard to believe and see it as extremely cynical. Religious ideals may be the selling point or 'public message' for a lot of conflicts (and in some cases, the whole reason), but it's most often just the catalyst for those who want conflict to enlist the help of those they need. The real reasons for conflict is almost always greed/power, in some shape or form.

I'm not looking to offend people but I don't see religion or power as different to one another. Therefore I stand by my point. Religion in my opinion is a device to control the masses.

Anyhow, I think I'll follow Harkers example and move on from this thread. I don't want to de-rail a thread on religion with my own personal views against it.

Personally I have no issue with people who follow a belief with the view of it being a positive, spiritual benefit to their own lives.
 

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Australia is fairly removed from the christian politics that plagues America, i can see it being irrelevant in Australian politics pretty soon. The US...never.

While we have religious holidays for all and religion based policy on things like abortion, we'll be controlled by it.
 
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I don't believe in God but that doesn't mean I look down my nose at people who do. I just can't reconcile my personal values with that of any religion, and I absolutely can't believe in one being that controls the universe, world, whatever. But if believing gives you comfort, a sense of community, or assistance through life, than who am I to try to take that away from you?

The only time religion really gives me the shits is when people try to govern my life according to their beliefs.
 
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Give it time.......you will, or should I say that at least I hope we do one day, when the science is so heavily stacked against magic, that it will be implausible for us to further subscribe to others' writings.

That will be a good day that I won't see but my grand, grand, grand children may.................I hope.

Please don't hope that I do. I don't think I'm superior to anyone else. I come from a long line of people who don't believe in god or any other religion, but they also support other people's rights to explore their own faith-based journey.

I think the world would be a better place without religion, but I will never impose my beliefs on other people.
 
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You're a much nicer person than for those that continually do so and without them, who knows..........religion could have well been on its way out already.

People who push their anti-religion agenda onto other people are no better than those who spread the word of their god.
Live and let live is my motto. As long as your beliefs don't hurt anyone then it's none of my business.
 
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Give it time.......you will, or should I say that at least I hope we do one day, when the science is so heavily stacked against magic, that it will be implausible for us to further subscribe to others' writings.

That will be a good day that I won't see but my grand, grand, grand children may.................I hope.
You're doing exactly what you're arguing against :confused:

What's the problem with 'live and let live'. Calling it 'magic' is rather unnecessary.
 
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Mate, I'm not having a crack at you or your beliefs. We were merely having a conversation about the topic.

If you've had enough that's fine but let it not be because you think that you're somehow being attacked because of your thoughts.

For the record, I'm one of those 'kooks'. In future, there's a way to respectfully disagree with someone and 'magic' and 'kook's isn't it. I don't think it's too hard to be treated with some respect despite our differences.
 
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People who push their anti-religion agenda onto other people are no better than those who spread the word of their god.

Live and let live is my motto. As long as your beliefs don't hurt anyone then it's none of my business.

Precisely.

Believe in God, or dont believe in God. Follow a religion or dont. be an atheist or an agnostic. I dont care so long as you dont try to force it on me. Separation of church and state is supposed to be a thing. Religion should have no bearing on law making (nor do i think the Government should fund schools operated by religions but hey thats another thing).
 
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We're coming from a long way and still don't have all the answers we need yet, but why give ourselves so readily to stuff man has made up?

We mock and ridicule Scientoligists, Mormons, Muslims and a multitude of other religions for all their inconsistencies and we somehow think ours to be the right one, because scripture was written over 2000 years ago, as though that somehow gives it more credibility. That's just such an odd notion to me.

Why don't we just go back further and subscribe to older religions? I'll tell you why.........The marketing wasn't as good. :)

To declare the contents of the New Testament as made up is flippant. There are overwhelming amounts of evidence that support the overwhelming amount of HISTORICAL information in the New Testament, including the existance of the people mentioned in it. To boil an extremely complex topic down to the simplest thing I can, the only things in the New Testament that you can question are the claims made by Christ as to his Godliness. You either believe him, or think him crazy.

The rest is either supported by history, or quite clearly written by someone describing dreams and messages etc. You take them as you like, but they aren't purporting to be something else (such as the creation story I will touch on below).

That's the other side to the argument and one where the swords come out.
There's the philosophical argument and the practical (or scientific) argument.

Science tells us that the earth is some billions of years old.................the bible tells us it's around 6000.

From my limited theological studies (I usually defer to friends who are qualified to comment on these things), the Old Testament is broken up into different sections (such as Creation, the Law and the Prophets). Among many theologists, the creation story is an allegory of sorts. It's not a historical account like the book of Acts in the New Testament, but instead, a poetic story that Israelites created that serves the purpose of describing a history of who they were as Israelites and humans, and how God related to them. The story was meant to explain how important humans were to God and set the foundation for their understanding of the relationship between them and their Creator.

Six days aint really six days.
 
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