News & Events Reports a Malaysian Airlines flight has gone down in the Ukraine

[The Speaker]

Pretty sure both are correct.

From the Latin scepticus.

I have no idea why Australian Skeptics use the American spelling.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Many people are not 'leaning towards' the separatists. The have already apportioned guilt.

There are posters in this thread who have called for retaliation against Russia/separatists.

Our own PM has implicated Putin. And just read the headlines of our newspapers. Mass madness.

I decided to check out the 6pm news bulletin last night to see how bad it would be. Wow.

'Drunk Russian separatists are looting Australian luggage and hampering the investigation'.

They actually said that. Never mind that SKY NEWS WAS CAUGHT GOING THROUGH PASSENGERS LUGGAGE.

The hypocrisy of the msm is astounding. But still the masses trust them. Because the news. The news. It's the news.

It's interesting how even Hip Young Media (ie the hyperbolic, wanky, smug, and kind of actually just dumb and tabloid Pedestrian.tv) have that journalistic camaraderie too. They all look after one another. It is such a boys club, stories created and perpetuated or minimised and lost based on what's best for the image of journalism. Anyway, they usually love a tagline that's no different to the buzzwords of Today Tonight ("shameful," "disgusting," "abhorrent," "animalistic") but all they used for this journo rifling through the belongings of someone dead was "bad form." Literally just that.

Tangent, sorry.

 

[Sterge]

Hate it how the MSM never report the other side of the story, you would never see this pro Russian story on an MSM site

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...shot-down-russia/story-fnizu68q-1226997531113

 

[JeffDunne]

Some may wonder why it's Abbot rather than the Dutch prime minister with the main running at present. Australia sits on the security council at present and hosts the next G20 meeting. Australia is in a better position to harm Russia in a diplomatic sense in the short term. But I suspect in the long term, Hollands ability to poison the EU from the inside vrs Russia will hurt Russia more.

Abbott is doing the main running (of the mouth) because he's an idiot.

Nothing to do with our position on the UN SC or the G20 summit (remembering too he thought the UN SC was a bad idea when the previous government was lobbying for it).

Most countries, Dutch & US included, use diplomats to fire shots & let the statesmen be statesmen until the facts are know. Unfortunately the idiots currently running this country know little in regards to diplomacy.

The Russians haven't backed down one iota since this started - their supposed opposition was assumed due to idiots like our PM.

Listen to Abbott's latest PC - he's clearly backtracking 100 miles an hour.

 

[Dagless]

Abbott is doing the main running (of the mouth) because he's an idiot.

Nothing to do with our position on the UN SC or the G20 summit (remembering too he thought the UN SC was a bad idea when the previous government was lobbying for it).

Most countries, Dutch & US included, use diplomats to fire shots & let the statesmen be statesmen until the facts are know. Unfortunately the idiots currently running this country know little in regards to diplomacy.

The Russians haven't backed down one iota since this started - their supposed opposition was assumed due to idiots like our PM.

Listen to Abbott's latest PC - he's clearly backtracking 100 miles an hour.

I'm fairly confident in what Abbott sees as an attempt to stand up as a country with some political value in the context of the world is rather just allowing ourselves to be used as vocal, outspoken mouth pieces to the US who conveniently are allowed to be less vocal as long as someone is around talking...

Why put themselves in TOO much bother with the Russians when we will fall on the sword instead?

 

[Better Loosen Up]

In the context of an orchestrated worldwide gov/msm campaign to paint Russia/Putin as the culprits within hours of the incident and continuing ever since, anybody who questions that narrative probably will look like they 'lean towards US involvement' by comparison.

But I am firmly in the middle until more solid evidence comes out. Call me old-fashioned.

You would think that if Russia had absolutely no hand in this tragedy whatsoever, they would have the means to prove that was the case. I imagine they would be quick to do so considering that the whole world is basically pointing the finger at them.

But to this day, they haven't. Why is that? Sure they have denied "responsibility" but they haven't categorically said this has nothing to do with us because of x, y, z.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Hate it how the MSM never report the other side of the story, you would never see this pro Russian story on an MSM site

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...shot-down-russia/story-fnizu68q-1226997531113

You'd have to wonder why the Russians are now trying to implicate a Ukrainian jet in shooting MH17 down when their previous official line was to convince everybody that the Ukrainians had BUKs.

 

[NSWCROW]

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/19/airline-horror-spurs-new-rush-to-judgment/

Regarding the shoot-down of the Malaysian jetliner on Thursday, I’m told that some CIA analysts cite U.S. satellite reconnaissance photos suggesting that the anti-aircraft missile that brought down Flight 17 was fired by Ukrainian troops from a government battery, not by ethnic Russian rebels

 

[Run n Spread]

You would think that if Russia had absolutely no hand in this tragedy whatsoever, they would have the means to prove that was the case. I imagine they would be quick to do so considering that the whole world is basically pointing the finger at them.

But to this day, they haven't. Why is that? Sure they have denied "responsibility" but they haven't categorically said this has nothing to do with us because of x, y, z.

Russia has no interest in proving anything to the world. They want Crimea for access to the Black Sea and an unencumbered gas line and don't give a sh*& who they offend as they know the US can't afford and would lose another war, China will back them and Europe in a few months will freeze their balls off through another winter and need cheap gas. Notice how Germany and France have been quiet. Russia are doing this as a show of strength. (Wouldn't surprise me if this was done on purpose). There is a reason most wars are fought.

High time the world got serious about looking for renewable and alternate energy sources and renewable resources, let science and reason be king and isolate these fu*&* psychopaths.

 

[JeffDunne]

I'm fairly confident in what Abbott sees as an attempt to stand up as a country with some political value in the context of the world is rather just allowing ourselves to be used as vocal, outspoken mouth pieces to the US who conveniently are allowed to be less vocal as long as someone is around talking...

Why put themselves in TOO much bother with the Russians when we will fall on the sword instead?

Yeah that was my first thought but I'm not convinced it's anything more than Abbott seeing his "Bali Bombing" moment.

Pretty shameless too.

 

[Dagless]

Yeah that was my first thought but I'm not convinced it's anything more than Abbott seeing his "Bali Bombing" moment.

Pretty shameless too.

Meant more in the sense that if the Americans told him to shut his trap, he would.

Agreed though.

 

[billywhizz]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-flight-simulator-at-pilots-home-9202234.html

"Checks are being carried out on the background of all of those aboard the plane. Mr Hussein said that checks have been received for all the foreigners except those from Ukraine and Russia - which account for three passengers - and that nothing suspicious has turned up so far."

Kinda interesting... You can find mention of these background checks in lots of stories regarding MH370, and it's Russia and the Ukraine who keep popping up.

 

[JeffDunne]

Nearly all of the highest-profile domestic terrorism plots in the United States since 9/11 featured the "direct involvement" of government agents or informants, a new report says.

Some of the controversial "sting" operations "were proposed or led by informants", bordering on entrapment by law enforcement. Yet the courtroom obstacles to proving entrapment are significant, one of the reasons the stings persist.

The lengthy report, released on Monday by Human Rights Watch, raises questions about the US criminal justice system's ability to respect civil rights and due process in post-9/11 terrorism cases. It portrays a system that features not just the sting operations but secret evidence, anonymous juries, extensive pretrial detentions and convictions significantly removed from actual plots.

"In some cases the FBI may have created terrorists out of law-abiding individuals by suggesting the idea of taking terrorist action or encouraging the target to act," the report alleges.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ents-directly-involved-us-terror-plots-report

Yeah . . . I trust them.

 

[georgio]

Nice article... thanks for the sharing...

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Still waiting for SB or anyone to point out the fighter jet in the radar clip supplied by Russia...

 

[Quivorir]

Maybe it was in stealth mode.

 

[E92_]

Don't know if it's been posted but Malaysia now have the black boxes.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

You would think that if Russia had absolutely no hand in this tragedy whatsoever, they would have the means to prove that was the case. I imagine they would be quick to do so considering that the whole world is basically pointing the finger at them.

But to this day, they haven't. Why is that? Sure they have denied "responsibility" but they haven't categorically said this has nothing to do with us because of x, y, z.

But you don't apply the same logic to Ukraine/US?

You aren't asking for them to prove a negative, just Russia?

lol, operation northwoods. an “operation” in name only and used as evidence for anything and everything that’s happened in the world since the beginning of time.

yeah it was just plan that was drafted and authorized by the joint chiefs of staff and only vetoed by jfk who was coincidentally assassinated sometime later nuthing suss but

 

[Long Live HFC]

yeah, "they" were willing to murder the president over operation northwoods, so that they could...continue to NOT implement it, ever. you should write for hollywood.

 

[JeffDunne]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-07-22/ukraine-mps-fight-in-parliament-as-mh17-discussed/

LOL

 

[JeffDunne]

 

[nicko99]

Hate it how the MSM never report the other side of the story, you would never see this pro Russian story on an MSM site

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...shot-down-russia/story-fnizu68q-1226997531113

I dont think Russia is claiming that Ukraine shot it down, its just the media twisting their words.

I theory i have heard is that a Ukraine jet was trailing behind the MA airplane less than 5km (which Russia stated) behind the airplane and that it can jam than the radar into a miltary aircraft so that the missile thinks it locking onto a miltary aircraft. Which the rebels thought they did.

Question has to be ask though why was the jet traveling behind a civilian Airplane.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

I dont think Russia is claiming that Ukraine shot it down, its just the media twisting their words.

I theory i have heard is that a Ukraine jet was trailing behind the MA airplane less than 5km (which Russia stated) behind the airplane and that it can jam than the radar into a miltary aircraft so that the missile thinks it locking onto a miltary aircraft. Which the rebels thought they did.

Question has to be ask though why was the jet traveling behind a civilian Airplane.

OK another chance for someone to point out this mysterious military jet travelling next to MH17. Can you please circle in red the military jet they are talking about because like I have said 3 times so far - I don't see any targets other than the 3 civilian aircraft in the area. When MH17 gets shot down it's target stops as you would expect and doesn't move. Where is this mysterious fighter jet??

 

[billywhizz]

Russia making me laugh.. Watched the video in anticipation for the supposed Ukrainian jet fighter flying next to MH17... Nothing.. They had 3 targets and all were commercial jets. No ******* idea how they can claim this mysterious jet fighter that is flying next to it when the dot never moves once it gets blown out of the sky... Can SM please point out this mysterious fighter that supposedly picked up speed towards MH17 because I can't see it. Smiling Budda please take a screengrab and circle the fighter jet in red for me so I can see it.

Why don't you watch from 18:50 on the video? Only need to do it for another two and a half minutes after that. Trust me, it'll be much quicker than taking a screen grab of the wrong section and then uploading it like you did above. The dot that appears does indeed move again just before the conclusion of the radar section of the presentation.

And in case you can't be bothered watching it for a whole 2 and a half minutes, the dot that is believed to be a military plane moves at 21:10, 21:19 and again at 21:39 in the video.

Not 100% convincing, but more believable than the US proof which looks like it was done up using Encarta 97.

 

[Taylor]

I didn't think it was in Russian culture to back down.