News & Events Reports a Malaysian Airlines flight has gone down in the Ukraine

[JeffDunne]

...but when you go and post things like the magical mystery jet flying next to MH17 it becomes ridiculous.

Excuse me?

Posting information released by one of the key players is ridiculous? You might think the information itself is ridiculous but surely anything released by governments is pertinent to the discussion (if you're interested in a discussion that is). It wasn't too ridiculous for you to watch it, think about it & respond multiple times to it.

Are you that blinkered that any information that doesn't fit your narrative is viewed as some sort of threat?

Personally I'm not going to get into a debate over radar images because it's not something I know anything about. I read your reply but that didn't convince me either. Radar images can be faked as easily as a social media post can be faked (especially when shown as part of a presentation). So even if it does show what they claim it shows, I wouldn't give it any credence until independent investigators have had a chance to examine it.

But fair dinkum, can we drop the Conspiracy Cop act in every bloody post?

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

But fair dinkum, can we drop the Conspiracy Cop act in every bloody post?

The problem we have with you is NOTHING is a valid source. So what is the point in having a discussion if every bit of information automatically gets discredited because of the source and not the data it provides?

 

[Baldur]

Abbott is doing the main running (of the mouth) because he's an idiot.

Nothing to do with our position on the UN SC or the G20 summit (remembering too he thought the UN SC was a bad idea when the previous government was lobbying for it).

Most countries, Dutch & US included, use diplomats to fire shots & let the statesmen be statesmen until the facts are know. Unfortunately the idiots currently running this country know little in regards to diplomacy.

The Russians haven't backed down one iota since this started - their supposed opposition was assumed due to idiots like our PM.

Listen to Abbott's latest PC - he's clearly backtracking 100 miles an hour.

Abbott's and Bishop's use of our present UN position resulted in a UN resolution far faster and more harsh than would otherwise have occurred. I am well aware Abbott opposed the money to obtain the UN Security Council Seat, he foolishly opposed everything the last government did regardless of what it was. The Russians have backed off and they have done so because of Abbott's aggression and Bishops diplomacy. Abbott then backed off a little because his aggression had served its purpose and to continue would be counter productive. If you cannot see this, than you are allowing your bias to blind you.

Putin is still being foolish, just not as much. The crumbs are still falling from his mouth, his hand is still stuck in the cookie jar, and he is still officially at least denying he ate the cookies.

As for those fools who think this is all some CIA plot. There is no hope for you, I guess you believe in little grey men, flying saucers and anal probes as well.

 

[JeffDunne]

The problem we have with you is NOTHING is a valid source. So what is the point in having a discussion if every bit of information automatically gets discredited because of the source and not the data it provides?

Where have I discredited any news source?

The only one I can recall calling ridiculous was a youtube conspiracy video.

You're so hell bent on being the internet's Conspiracy Cop you take shots at people that are only posing & asking questions.

You anserwed my question though. You ARE that blinkered that any information that doesn't fit your narrative is viewed as some sort of threat.

(Does capitialising words for emphasis really make a difference?)

 

[JeffDunne]

Abbott's and Bishop's use of our present UN position resulted in a UN resolution far faster and more harsh than would otherwise have occurred. I am well aware Abbott opposed the money to obtain the UN Security Council Seat, he foolishly opposed everything the last government did regardless of what it was. The Russians have backed off and they have done so because of Abbott's aggression and Bishops diplomacy. Abbott then backed off a little because his aggression had served its purpose and to continue would be counter productive. If you cannot see this, than you are allowing your bias to blind you.

Putin is still being foolish, just not as much. The crumbs are still falling from his mouth, his hand is still stuck in the cookie jar, and he is still officially at least denying he ate the cookies.

The Russians have worked with the Malaysians & Dutch from the start.

Malaysia organised a deal with separatists though backdoor diplomacy. The Dutch used their significant contacts with the Russian financial community to get their investigators & forensic scientists in.

Both happened or were in the process of happening before the UN resolution. Both happened without those countries PM calling Putin a murderer.

Worth noting too that the only potential stumbling block in the UN was any attempt to apportion blame (see Chinese & Russian reaction). Wonder where that was coming from?

Abbott is going to come out of this looking like an opportnistic knob. I doubt any world leaders of note would take him seriously.

As for those fools who think this is all some CIA plot. There is no hope for you, I guess you believe in little grey men, flying saucers and anal probes as well.

We have plenty of evidence of past CIA plots - some far more ridiculous in nature than the most ridiculous conspiracy theories being put up about this.

We have no evidence of alien anal probes (although cheerleaders of political parties come close).

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Where have I discredited any news source?

Not sure I buy into the stuff released by Ukraine "proving" their involvement either. That looks & sounds like propaganda.

Did you listen to the recordings? Did you find other recordings from the people in question and compare their voices (I did)? Did you read the source where one of the persons in question admitted it was him on the phone? Did you investigate the original video and dismiss the claim that it was created before the crash (I did)? Anyway this isn't going anywhere. I'm interested in the analysing the evidence, not having a pissing match.

 

[JeffDunne]

Did you listen to the recordings? Did you find other recordings from the people in question and compare their voices (I did)? Did you read the source where one of the persons in question admitted it was him on the phone? Did you investigate the original video and dismiss the claim that it was created before the crash (I did)? Anyway this isn't going anywhere. I'm interested in the analysing the evidence, not having a pissing match.

The best you can do is me saying I didn't think it was authentic? You didn't even quote the reason I thought that. Regardless, you've run voice recognition over it so why shouldn't I believe that?

You're incredible. (yes you can quote me on that).

 

[Long Live HFC]

We have plenty of evidence of past CIA plots - some far more ridiculous in nature than the most ridiculous conspiracy theories being put up about this.

such as?

 

[Simple Jack]

No no no no you still don't get it. That is MH17's target. Do you know how I know that? Because it is travelling at 204km/h as the radar shows. When the jet exploded large parts blew off in different directions. What you are seeing is one part of the plane that is being tracked and losing speed following the explosion. No military jet flies around at 204km/h because it would stall. You would know that if you did a bit more research. Now please answer my questions.

1. Why aren't there two targets being tracked before explosion (MH17 and mysterious jet)
2. Where did mysterious jet go after explosion and why isn't there a radar record showing it?

Not necessarily. Groundspeed vs Airspeed.

Having said that I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[JeffDunne]

such as?

One has already been mentioned in this thread.

Google is you're friend (as it is for all Conspiracy Cops).

 

[little graham]

Much of the rest of the known case against Russia comes from claims made by the Ukrainian regime, which emerged from the unconstitutional coup d’etat against elected President Viktor Yanukovych on Feb. 22. His overthrow followed months of mass protests, but the actual coup was spearheaded by neo-Nazi militias that overran government buildings and forced Yanukovych’s officials to flee.

In recognition of the key role played by the neo-Nazis, who are ideological descendants of Ukrainian militias that collaborated with the Nazi SS in World War II, the new regime gave these far-right nationalists control of several ministries, including the office of national security which is under the command of longtime neo-Nazi activist Andriy Parubiy.[See Consortiumnews.com’s “Ukraine, Through the US Looking Glass.”]

It was this same Parubiy whom the Post writers turned to seeking more information condemning the eastern Ukrainian rebels and the Russians regarding the Malaysia Airlines catastrophe. Parubiy accused the rebels in the vicinity of the crash site of destroying evidence and conducting a cover-up, another theme that resonated through the MSM.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/europe-russia/65334-ukraine-after-may-25-election-99.html
Australian gov relying on Nazis to bash Russians. our prime minister in his sydney uni days was a anti communist crusader..

This is sick s**t.

Without bothering to inform readers of Parubiy’s unsavory neo-Nazi background, the Post quoted him as a reliable witness declaring: “It will be hard to conduct a full investigation with some of the objects being taken away, but we will do our best.”

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Here is an illustration that shows why the radar target appears to 'move' north east. The distance between explosion and main impact site is ~5.1km which matches the distance shown in the Russian radar video between impact point and last known radar return. The yellow line is based on the last known bearing of MH17 (117 deg) and last known position both off flightradar.com

 

[Partridge]

The main issue however is that northwoods was never an operation, it was just words on a piece of paper. Using it as an example of a government false flag isn’t credible simply because it never existed outside that piece of paper. I’m sure there are many crazy ideas that have existed at one time or another. we might call them “ridiculous” however I was really looking for examples of actual operations that might approach the levels of ridiculousness making noise in the CT blogosphere about MH17. Logistically, most imaginary conspiracies dreamed up by “theorists” are far more complex and complicated than the real world examples with which they compare:

Precisely. Real conspiracies - and they do happen and have happened - are marked by all too human traits; they are clumsy, sloppy, more often than not poorly executed, and show even with a small number of participants how hard it is to carry out these grandiose plans successfully. Watergate for example was a conspiracy; a simply break-in of a hotel room. And they couldn't even do that properly.

Plus the other universal truth - humans have big mouths. As Bugliosi wisely put it - three people can keep a secret, but only if two of them are dead.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Because it was vetoed by a president who later found himself assassinated.

Back and to the left. Back and to the left.

Your attempts to downplay a plan signed off on by the joint chiefs of staff and stopped from going ahead only by one man reveal a substantial amount about your motives here.

your continued assertions that i have a "motive" here beyond berating and correcting the uneducated, just shows how far off the reservation you really are.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Precisely. Real conspiracies - and they do happen and have happened - are marked by all too human traits; they are clumsy, sloppy, more often than not poorly executed, and show even with a small number of participants how hard it is to carry out these grandiose plans successfully. Watergate for example was a conspiracy; a simply break-in of a hotel room. And they couldn't even do that properly.

Plus the other universal truth - humans have big mouths. As Bugliosi wisely put it - three people can keep a secret, but only if two of them are dead.

agree completely. if 911 really was a US conspiracy, it was the most poorly designed and executed conspiracy ever.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

This article goes through a few of the lies purported by the Russian media.
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-10-lies-about-downed-malaysia-airliner

 

[Smiling Buddha]

So now that the US have fessed up and admitted they have ZERO EVIDENCE to tie this incident to Russia, let's take a look at how our msm was reporting on the incident just a few days ago, shall we?

Sunday 20/7/14 9.00am when people are having their morning coffees:

And then a few hours later when people are checking the news around lunchtime:

Incredible stuff.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

This article goes through a few of the lies purported by the Russian media.
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-10-lies-about-downed-malaysia-airliner

Cool. Now let's see them (or anyone) compile a list of lies by the Western msm over the past few days.

 

[Long Live HFC]

how is the hundreds of bodies lying around not a "horror" and in what way is shooting down a passenger jet not a "crime"?

 

[JeffDunne]

how is the hundreds of bodies lying around not a "horror" and in what way is shooting down a passenger jet not a "crime"?

When the plane is Iranian and full of Iranian civilians.

William C Rogers III, even received a pat on the back for his efforts :

Rogers remained in command of the USS Vincennes until May 27, 1989.[13] In 1990, Capt. Rogers was awarded the Legion of Merit decoration "for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service as commanding officer ... from April 1987 to May 1989." The award was given for his service as the Commanding Officer of the Vincennes, and the citation made no mention of the downing of Iran Air 655

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_C._Rogers_III

Could you imagine if it's found it was a Russian commander that fired the shot and this was their reaction?

All senseless killing should be viewed the same way regardless of authenticity or nationality. The people that get rich selling the arms responsible should share culpability but they never do . . . except when it suits propaganda purposes.

Frankly only a fool would view western media & politicians as holding some sort of moral authority.

 

[Catfish Alley]

You'd be a fool to trust media or politicians in general - east, west, north or south.

 

[Long Live HFC]

All senseless killing should be viewed the same way regardless of authenticity or nationality.

and i agree. i'm not sure what relevance flight 655 is when discussing australia's media "outrage" over 17 though. perhaps if you pulled up a bunch of commentary playing down the incident in Oz media, that would make the comparison more relevant.

 

[Feerits Elf]

In the meantime, I am receiving PMs from lurkers who tell me they can see that certain posters in this thread are doing their best to shout me down, and have begun to question why that may be so.

Post the PMs or it didn't happen

 

[Smiling Buddha]

For those who missed it on the previous page, let's revisit the midday Sunday Herald Sun screengrab:

So Premier Napthine had stated that Putin was 'not welcome' in Australia. Putin was apparently 'in the firing line'. There was 'proof' that Russian rebels were responsible. And worst of all, Russia was 'helping to destroy evidence'.

AND NOW THE US IS ADMITTING IT HAS NO EVIDENCE FOR ANY OF THIS.

Would anyone who has been propagating the anti-Russia/Putin memes like to comment on these things? Will you have the maturity to accept that our own msm, once again, was completely misrepresenting the facts?

If we were half as smart and civilised as we think we are, Victorians would be demanding a public apology from Napthine at the very least.

 

[Long Live HFC]

In the meantime, I am receiving PMs from lurkers who tell me they can see that certain posters in this thread are doing their best to shout me down, and have begun to question why that may be so.

As I said before, you’re not a lone theorist that has problems analysing reality.