Autopsy Review: Collingwood v Melbourne (37 pt loss) - That was D-Day

[BringouttheGimp]

Someone might want to pop down to the Westpac Centre, tell them to get a move along. The waiting thing is getting a bit tiresome for some. Why can't all of those kids with 10-20 games experience just harness their youthful enthusiasm and bring us the glory now? NOW!

I get the sense that you might be better off with another pursuit, one with an immediate payoff. Not knitting, that takes too long. The problem with football is that there might not be a payoff at all, as Collingwood supporters know too well. If you can't just enjoy watching the team build, and if you can't appreciate football from week to week (without any prospect of immediate gratification), then you're only headed for a world of unremitting angst. Then again, some people like that sort of thing I suppose, masochistic types etc.

i did say play decent football with a view to playing finals.. now my angst is levelled at 3 individuals.. mcquire buckley and malthouse.. 3 who sought fit to rip the heart out of a 140 yr old club. the club first the team second the players 3rd in my opinion. this whole saga has cost collingwood 4 yrs and beyond.. nex yr 5.. at will may possiby cont way beyond that.. and i blame the 3. and yes im ruthless enough to say that i want us to win premierships.. theres a reason why hawthorn have won 10 and us 2 over the last few decades.. its cause of crap like eveeyone wanting to get their fingers in the pie.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Someone might want to pop down to the Westpac Centre, tell them to get a move along. The waiting thing is getting a bit tiresome for some. Why can't all of those kids with 10-20 games experience just harness their youthful enthusiasm and bring us the glory now? NOW!

I get the sense that you might be better off with another pursuit, one with an immediate payoff. Not knitting, that takes too long. The problem with football is that there might not be a payoff at all, as Collingwood supporters know too well. If you can't just enjoy watching the team build, and if you can't appreciate football from week to week (without any prospect of immediate gratification), then you're only headed for a world of unremitting angst. Then again, some people like that sort of thing I suppose, masochistic types etc.

and its this mentality that always settles for 'good on ya boys you gave it a crack'.. well not good enough in my opinion.. and what astonishes me is that weren't collingwood prepared for the malthouse/buckley changeover? a professional organisation.. the biggest sporting club in the land.. having players stick their fingers up at the box.. playing undisciplined football. how well did the club hierarchy prepare for it? bugger all. that i find stagerring. did the hierarchy not expect a reaction from mick and the players? its a 140 yr old club ffs with suppossed pros who know what theyre doing. i dont understand it 1 bit to be honest with ya. look back at micks gf speach after we won the premiership in 2010.. his reference to ed.

 

[jackcass]

Oh yeah, my youngest bro who is also a mad Pies man has been on an 8 week African safari, we haven't won since he's been away.

Ah-ha... Coincidence? I think not!

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Someone might want to pop down to the Westpac Centre, tell them to get a move along. The waiting thing is getting a bit tiresome for some. Why can't all of those kids with 10-20 games experience just harness their youthful enthusiasm and bring us the glory now? NOW!

I get the sense that you might be better off with another pursuit, one with an immediate payoff. Not knitting, that takes too long. The problem with football is that there might not be a payoff at all, as Collingwood supporters know too well. If you can't just enjoy watching the team build, and if you can't appreciate football from week to week (without any prospect of immediate gratification), then you're only headed for a world of unremitting angst. Then again, some people like that sort of thing I suppose, masochistic types etc.

and i do love the new players coming through.. but im never going to disguise the fact that im not disappointed either. this whole debacle would never happen at a club like hawthorn.. who are still playing players well in their 30s. i heard excuses all yr in 2012 that didak was not in good form or injured.. hence played the entire yr on the reserves.. only to come back as a sub ags port in the final to pick up over 10 possessions in a qrt of football.. mitchell burgoyne hodge.. well perhaps they should have retired 3 yrs ago like didak. im not buying it one bit.. there are some players we either traded off or retired early cause someone could not take control of the dressing room.

 

[jackcass]

Witts is a good set shot which seems to be rare at Collingwood, IN time he could become an effective tall forward, and looks like we have plenty of time now!

Don't tell Dave

 

[JB1975]

and its this mentality that always settles for 'good on ya boys you gave it a crack'.. well not good enough in my opinion.. and what astonishes me is that weren't collingwood prepared for the malthouse/buckley changeover? a professional organisation.. the biggest sporting club in the land.. having players stick their fingers up at the box.. playing undisciplined football. how well did the club hierarchy prepare for it? bugger all. that i find stagerring. did the hierarchy not expect a reaction from mick and the players? its a 140 yr old club ffs with suppossed pros who know what theyre doing. i dont understand it 1 bit to be honest with ya. look back at micks gf speach after we won the premiership, in 2010.. his reference to ed.

We all like a victory, there's nothing especially 'ruthless' about wanting to win premierships. Some people just happen to think that the list is in a fairly fundamental transition phase, that sustained success just isn't a realistic prospect for at least a few more seasons. You can lament the handover from MM to Buckley, and no doubt aspects of that might have been handled better, but frankly I just don't see the point.

 

[JB1975]

and i do love the new players coming through.. but im never going to disguise the fact that im not disappointed either. this whole debacle would never happen at a club like hawthorn.. who are still playing players well in their 30s. i heard excuses all yr in 2012 that didak was not in good form or injured.. hence played the entire yr on the reserves.. only to come back as a sub ags port in the final to pick up over 10 possessions in a qrt of football.. mitchell burgoyne hodge.. well perhaps they should have retired 3 yrs ago like didak. im not buying it one bit.. there are some players we either traded off or retired early cause someone could not take control of the dressing room.

Didak was done. The club knew it, they got rid of him. He didn't get picked up by another club...they knew Didak was done too.

 

[jackcass]

And you succeeded on all three counts.
Personally I don't mind you guys having a bit of a gloat as you have had so little to smile about for a long long time. However I am going to rain on your parade a little. Yesterdays result was not a case of the better team won on the day. It was a case of the less terrible team won on the day. Your mob was also really bad. Poor decision making. skill errors. turnovers etc. Luckily for you we were even more terrible on the day.

Actually a lifetime, I wasn't even in kinder.

 

[jackcass]

im an advocate of the here and now and rebuilding.. combine the 2.. so we are at least a finals proposition every yr.. you don't go and overhaul a ferrari.. another reason.. this rebuilding phase is bs bc its going to take 5-10 of my life for what? 'be patient' makes no sense to me when 5-10 yrs is a big chunk of my life. great sides tinker with their lists not rip the heart out of it.

Serious question, just how many teams have successfully done that to the point where they actually win grand finals?

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Didak was done. The club knew it, they got rid of him. He didn't get picked up by another club...they knew Didak was done too.

i dont believe it.. i think its far more deep seated than that. and have a look at hawthorns premiership yr.. a lot of their old timers were out for half the yr.. what matters is finals.. get didak johnson jolly get em up and about for em. you cant buy finals experience.. didak still had 2 yrs left in him as did others.. so lake mitchell hodge hale gibson etc in their 30s.. all of ours delisted or retired.. so i for dont subscribe to your theory.. sorry. im an abvocate of change yes.. but im not an advocate of a complete overhaul.. thats where we f'd it up.. better management of players in explaining the changeover.. not having em stivk the bird at the box or commit undisciplined acts out there.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Serious question, just how many teams have successfully done that to the point where they actually win grand finals?

there was no need to do it.. were collingwood prepared for the changeover? no not at an acceptable level. look at ferguson/moyes.. myes takes over the machester united dressing room.. and what happens? the worst results since who knows when. i will accept it if it was explained to me or of regerence was made that we were going to drop down the table bc of this.. but no one will ever admit it.. the prep wasnt done properly.. and yes we did finish 4th in 2012 under bucks.. but that was solely on talent alone we had that many gifted players. as a team did i enjoy 2012.. not 1 bit.. we didnt play well at all.

 

[JB1975]

i dont believe it.. i think its far more deep seated than that. and have a look at hawthorns premiership yr.. a lot of their old timers were out for half the yr.. what matters is finals.. get didak johnson jolly get em up and about for em. you cant buy finals experience.. didak still had 2 yrs left in him as did others.. so lake mitchell hodge hale gibson etc in their 30s.. all of ours delisted or retired.. so i for dont subscribe to your theory.. sorry. im an abvocate of change yes.. but im not an advocate of a complete overhaul.. thats where we f'd it up.. better management of players in explaining the changeover.. not having em stivk the bird at the box or commit undisciplined acts out there.

I love the premiership heroes as much as anyone, but this takes it too far. Both Didak and Jolly touted themselves on the market once they were delisted, and no club went near them. Doesn't that tell you something? If that doesn't convince, I hardly think my perspective will suddenly win you over.

 

[jackcass]

i dont believe it.. i think its far more deep seated than that. and have a look at hawthorns premiership yr.. a lot of their old timers were out for half the yr.. what matters is finals.. get didak johnson jolly get em up and about for em. you cant buy finals experience.. didak still had 2 yrs left in him as did others.. so lake mitchell hodge hale gibson etc in their 30s.. all of ours delisted or retired.. so i for dont subscribe to your theory.. sorry. im an abvocate of change yes.. but im not an advocate of a complete overhaul.. thats where we f'd it up.. better management of players in explaining the changeover.. not having em stivk the bird at the box or commit undisciplined acts out there.

If any of the players you think we should have retained had anything left to offer another team would have picked them up. Retaining them for any further time would have made the rebuild longer and more painful.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

If any of the players you think we should have retained had anything left to offer another team would have picked them up. Retaining them for any further time would have made the rebuild longer and more painful.

im not entirely convinved im sorry. didak was toast?? how many games did he play in the reserves only to return as a sub with a 10 possession qrt in a final.. sinnister id say.

 

[jackcass]

there was no need to do it.. were collingwood prepared for the changeover? no not at an acceptable level. look at ferguson/moyes.. myes takes over the machester united dressing room.. and what happens? the worst results since who knows when. i will accept it if it was explained to me or of regerence was made that we were going to drop down the table bc of this.. but no one will ever admit it.. the prep wasnt done properly.. and yes we did finish 4th in 2012 under bucks.. but that was solely on talent alone we had that many gifted players. as a team did i enjoy 2012.. not 1 bit.. we didnt play well at all.

I repeat my question, has a team ever rebuilt on the run and achieved the ultimate success? Or are you saying just playing finals is okay by you?

Jordan Lewis in a recent interview said its actually taken 7-8 years to build toward their current success and its underpinned by early draft picks. The sort of picks you don't Generally get finishing in finals.

We lost an enormous amount of experience in 2010, 2011 & 2012, that's life. Move on.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

I repeat my question, has a team ever rebuilt on the run and achieved the ultimate success? Or are you saying just playing finals is okay by you?

Jordan Lewis in a recent interview said its actually taken 7-8 years to build toward their current success and its underpinned by early draft picks. The sort of picks you don't Generally get finishing in finals.

We lost an enormous amount of experience in 2010, 2011 & 2012, that's life. Move on.

yeah well if it takes 7-8 yrs.. players like wellingham for eg dont grow on trees.. and what that doesnt coincide with the mm/buck changeover? didak retires at 29 and he was toast was he? johnson toast at 29 bc of troubesome hanstrings? truth of the matter is theyre both no different to mitchell who was out half the yr with a hammy.. but hawthorn are smart enough to know that what matters most are finals.. no ifs or buts.. everything revolves around sepetember. and if we are so into our development as a team building towards finals in yrs to come.. id say give us 100 yrs of frost and brown.. and a great group of players surrounding em and i guarantee you we will never win a premiership with those 2 spuds in key back roles.. so much for development.

 

[jackcass]

im not entirely convinved im sorry. didak was toast?? how many games did he play in the reserves only to return as a sub with a 10 possession qrt in a final.. sinnister id say.

He actually played the last 3 games And had next to zero impact reinforcing he was cooked. Don't mistake teammates gifting him possessions for the Didak of old making a case for another season.

 

[Axl the great]

Good post, and I feel and share the frustration. However, the last thing I want is for Bucks to start getting angsty at press conferences. I have more than a bit of contempt for the way in which Hardwick and Brad Scott puff up after a loss. That 'we just won't tolerate that sort of footy' line seems so contrived to me, and nor does it seem especially effective in achieving change. I trust that the Collingwood coaching staff don't appreciate the sort of insipid footy that the team served up yesterday, and I can only hope that they've got a sense of what can be done to turn it around.

Oh please, don't let us serve up the same garbage next week...

Hope so mate, I just look how a bit of line in the sand threat demeanour has really straightened Richmond up and North as well to a certain extent, North are still a bit flakey but Richmond seem to have got the message. I just hope to hell some of our guys know exactly where they stand behind closed doors, i really do.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

He actually played the last 3 games And had next to zero impact reinforcing he was cooked. Don't mistake teammates gifting him possessions for the Didak of old making a case for another season.

im going to have to disagree sorry. the numbers dont add up right.. half of hawthorn is 30s.. all our 30 yr olds retired or delisted.. coinsidental? i think not.. mm/bucks changeover.. mmmmmmmmm id say more than likely.

 

[jackcass]

yeah well if it takes 7-8 yrs.. players like wellingham for eg dont grow on trees.. and what that doesnt coincide with the mm/buck changeover? didak retires at 29 and he was toast was he? johnson toast at 29 bc of troubesome hanstrings? truth of the matter is theyre both no different to mitchell who was out half the yr with a hammy.. but hawthorn are smart enough to know that what matters most are finals.. no ifs or buts.. everything revolves around sepetember. and if we are so into our development as a team building towards finals in yrs to come.. id say give us 100 yrs of frost and brown.. and a great group of players surrounding em and i guarantee you we will never win a premiership with those 2 spuds in key back roles.. so much for development.

Wellingham requested a trade.

Didak was nearly 31 when he played his last game.

Benny Johnson was over 32 when he decided his body wasn't up to it.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Taking the tough decisions gives us hope we'll not just be competitive come September but be well placed to contend for the silverware. We just need to be patient.

 

[jackcass]

im going to have to disagree sorry. the numbers dont add up right.. half of hawthorn is 30s.. all our 30 yr olds retired or delisted.. coinsidental? i think not.. mm/bucks changeover.. mmmmmmmmm id say more than likely.

There's a vast difference between being 30+ and contributing and 30+ and a passenger.

 

[jmac70]

im going to have to disagree sorry. the numbers dont add up right.. half of hawthorn is 30s.. all our 30 yr olds retired or delisted.. coinsidental? i think not.. mm/bucks changeover.. mmmmmmmmm id say more than likely.

I think you are making a good point. Whilst I don't think Didak had much more to give there is no doubt that the successful teams like Hawthorn and Sydney seem to be able to get quality footy out of guys who are into their 30s. We don't seem to be able to do that.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

I think you are making a good point. Whilst I don't think Didak had much more to give there is no doubt that the successful teams like Hawthorn and Sydney seem to be able to get quality footy out of guys who are into their 30s. We don't seem to be able to do that.

i tell you why in my opinion:

2012 bucks takes over then what happens.. lack of respect for it by our seniors 28 plus yr players.. not hitting the track hard enough.. dropping their intensity at training in the gym in all other areas of their game. at the elite level you drop by 5% youre gonna find it difficult.. the excuse that most of our 30 yr olds were toast is for this reason.. even simple task like turning up to fittings the players took for granted or simply did not give a f..

our 30 yr olds were never toast.. they were not motivated enough to hit it hard.

where was the club to sought through this issue.. poor management as far as im concerned.. its funny looking back now in 2012 when we still were the best side in my opinion.. playing at half pace but talented and brilliant ebough to make top 4.

food for thought my friend.

i look beyond the square and i dont buy this bs 30 yr old has been theory at all.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

There's a vast difference between being 30+ and contributing and 30+ and a passenger.

you look at results.. you listen to people.. perhaps look deeper than that.. dont get sucked into believing our 30 yr olds were finished when their intensity dropped giving everyone the impression that they were done. everyone knows that the seniors werent hitting the track hard enough under buckleys regime cause if they were.. theyd be tossing mitchell around today like a rag doll.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

if these 30 or over players had been playing under MM until 2013.. i guarantee ya they wouldnt be looked at as being done and dusted.. smokescreen some would have you believe. i dont understand how you cant see through this.. its as clear crystal. if i was new and came in and told you what i wanted from you and you didnt like me.. would you hit the track like a madman.. i think not. we never lost our most senior players they were still supreme.. what we did lose was that extra hr in the gym.. that extra lap around the pitch.. dont be fooled by this bs too old theory about didak.. didak gave up as soon as MM left. he was never toast.