Opinion Richmond's Future Talls Discussion

[3rdManUp]

The reality is Richmond is carrying an awful lot of potential KPPs that could find a place in teams that are sorely lacking them.

We can't hold onto them all. Imagine if Griff does come on? Where does McBean go? Elton? Astbury? How do we juggle two rucks in the rotation??

IMO someone has to go. Who will it be and at what price?
Could we be looking at a bargaining chip come next trade period?

If Griff goes gold, what could we get for him?
I love Vicks and think that 2014 has a lot in store for him BUT here's a crazy hypothetical... McBean is the forward saviour that we have longed hoped for. Would TV be on the table?? What would he be worth?

Remember two things
1) This is all hypothetical
2) Fortune favours the brave

Richmond's tall timber: make your predictions here


Disclaimer: Poster has had a few scotches and it's off-season

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

It's like when our midfield had a few names with potential, but few had delivered at the time. We thought we had depth. Then half turned into great midfielders, we recruited another batch of even better backups, and our 8th best midfielder became Foley.

If the same happens with our tall timber then we are laughing.

The truth is, the quality can keep going up and up. Then you end up with 6 quality talls and 3 very good ones playing VFL. Atm we have 3 quality talls (Jack, Rance, Chap), an okay tall with potential (TV), one great ruck and one good one with potential, then a bunch of kids with potential... In other we have 3 good talls plus potentials and solid rucks. We better bloody well get some quality emerging from the young tall timber, we need it! Our mids are way ahead.

 

[caroma]

IF Griff comes on then im all for trading TV.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Astbury and Griffiths will need too find something this year.
The rest are pretty much safe
Value for talls this year won't be that high considering this years draft is loaded with quality talls.

 

[Roachy8]

Griffiths would have to 'come on' an awful lot for Vickery to be on the trade table before him. (Hypothetically - )

Vickery has cemented his spot and played a couple of lets say "very serviceable" seasons despite some crap injuries... lot's of value placed in him by the club. Very versatile too....

Griffiths has shown signs of heaps of natural ability but through injury and lack of drive (apparently) is still only thereabouts on the fringe.

McBean is safe and sound for another year or two...

Astbury does not seem to have a position unfortunately IMO.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Astbury does not seem to have a position unfortunately IMO.

Agree.The loss of some of his arobic abilty hurts him big time.The only thing that may save him is that he does have Footy smarts about him.But yep a big mountain to climb.

 

[Dr Tigris]

1) If Griff comes on and goes 'gold' then that actually frees both TV and Jack up. You play Griff and TV at FF and CHF. Oppositions will have a nightmare covering them. Jack is probably the smartest KPF going around, so you play him as a floating/high forward with the remit to goes where he wants. That should free him up to play one on one, as if they double team him he moves out the way of Griff/TV leaving them one on one. No opposition can match that set up well. Add in a decent crumber or two and that is close to the best forward line in the AFL. So, no way you trade out from an awesome forward line like that.

2) Having so many young talls that have shown ability is great. We only have a few solid 'made it' talls - i'd even include Rance in that. If we get 2-3 of Griff/Elton/Astbury/McBean to make it then we have great depth. Griff has the talent but lacks smarts, Elton needs to learn how to kick (or at least to kick it smarter), Astbury needs to get some mobility back and use his smarts more, McBean needs to add muscle and experience. Lots to work with, but lots to do.

 

[juss]

You're talking like all our VFL KPPs are banging down the door for selection. They're not.
Elton and Griffiths certainly aren't, McBean was before he got injured but is still very undersized and to be honest Astbury only got games because Grimes wasn't fit. If Grimes is fully fit, Astbury probably doesn't get a game.

KPP is an area we need to address in the 2014 draft imo, quantity does not equal quality. We have a number of KPPs, only a handful you would trust week in week out.

 

[Dr Tigris]

You're talking like all our VFL KPPs are banging down the door for selection. They're not.
Elton and Griffiths certainly aren't, McBean was before he got injured but is still very undersized and to be honest Astbury only got games because Grimes wasn't fit. If Grimes is fully fit, Astbury probably doesn't get a game.

KPP is an area we need to address in the 2014 draft imo, quantity does not equal quality. We have a number of KPPs, only a handful you would trust week in week out.

Once again Juss, good post. The thign that makes me feel positive is that they all have shown real talent. Over history we have had many talls that never really showed that much promise. I'd be happy if 2 'made it'.

 

[Cotcho]

ATM we have JR as the only good tall forward. Vickery is ok. The others have done nothing. If anything I'd say we lack in this area.

 

[RunningBounce]

I reckon we need 6 KPP, 3 back, 3 forward, plus rucks.

I rate Jack and Ty forward, but A. Edwards worries me. I predict this is his last AFL season, with McBean, beefed up from a huge pre-season, taking that spot somewhere around the middle of the year.

I rate Rance and Chaplin back, Grimes and Astbury worry me. Could it be that we all jumped the gun with Grimes? Handful of good games got me excited, but since then, there's been heaps of injuries and a very disappointing final... I'm not sure who steps in to claim that spot. I don't think it's Griff, who probably needs to be played forward. I haven't seen enough of Elton.

 

[sante]

McBean might not even make the grade

 

[Spluff]

Not an issue at all. We've got a pretty good balance I think. We could potentially run into some issues with our depth backmen - I could see Astbury getting poached as he's good enough for AFL but is behind a few others. We won't be having an issue with our forwards at this point in time, though.

Right now:

Very good players: Jack, Rance, Chaplin
Best 22: Vickery, Grimes
Depth: Astbury, Edwards
Promising: McBean, Darrou
Struggling: Elton, Griffiths

 

[Tigers69]

This is where the trading in of Hampson still worries me. If, as I have read in reports, we are going to play Maric a lot more forward then I think we are in strife. I don't think that Hampson cuts the mustard and Maric as a key forward will not work. To have Jack, Maric and TV in the same forward line will mean that our opponents will run the ball out of our forward line far too easily.

We cannot afford to go too tall in the forward line so for mine Jack and TV as talls with King, S Edwards, Knights/McDonough and a resting mid is the way to go.

As far as the backline goes we need 2 talls (Rance and Chaplin) with a 3rd "intermediate" which will be one of Grimes, Batchelor or Dea.

Griffiths is on a 1 year contract as (I think) is Batchelor so one or both may be gone by the end of the season unless they show something. If Astbury does not come on this year he may also be gone so our so called depth of talls is tenuous at best.

 

[juss]

I think the ideal list position would be this:

You want 3 quality KPDs and KPFs on your match day. You then want atleast 1-2 good solid depth players at either end, who can come in during injuries that will no doubt happen and play 5-10 games a year. These depth players don't have to be guns, they just need to be good honest role players that can do a job.

After that, you can afford to have 3-4 project talls. This could be young guys, rookie list players, guys that play both ends at VFL, guys that have potential but aren't quite ready.

Think we are still a KPP or two short in the quality performers and even in the depth department. We have quite a few speculative project talls.

 

[camiam]

vickerys year 2014, with the bean showing his potential. its tiger time and im excited!!!!

 

[Mr Magic]

I will make my perception atm short and sweet, JR elite, Rance good, Chaplin and Grimes good to handy and a lot of potentials some with more promise than others. In short we still have a lot to do and way to go to fully develop our big man effectiveness!


It stands out to me TV's development this year is just as important to RFC going forward as Griffiths and McBeans.

Physically, TV needs to develop more like Hampson. Not necessarily all the way but in that direction , Griffiths needs more strength and mass to particularly in the core as opposed to the shoulders necessarily.

If Griff can get stronger as a KPP and TV as a Ruck forward RFC as a team should improve substantially. McBean and others like Elton deserve every chance as well.

On a side note I am looking forward to C Williams and McIntosh's progression in particular this year as well and hope the Hampson addition works out well particuarly in the leadership/development area for our youngsters

 

[theflea]

Not an issue at all. We've got a pretty good balance I think. We could potentially run into some issues with our depth backmen - I could see Astbury getting poached as he's good enough for AFL but is behind a few others. We won't be having an issue with our forwards at this point in time, though.

Right now:

Very good players: Jack, Rance, Chaplin
Best 22: Vickery, Grimes
Depth: Astbury, Edwards
Promising: McBean, Darrou
Struggling: Elton, Griffiths

Agree here. A few of our KPP's have been given only a years' contract so they will have to perform this year. I would also add that clubs these days don't hoard good talls as either they are too good not to play or they are but leave. So we must state that the level they need to get too is a good afl standard.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Jack, Tyrone and Maric/Hampson rotating through the third spot for now. However if Griffiths does stand up I'd like to see Hampson forced out and for Tyrone to resume his forward/ruck role with Jack at FF and Griff at CHF. If Elton comes on then same deal, but that's even less likely. Otherwise we just stick with what we've got now.

McBean to play as a crumbing forward pocket.

 

[flaps]

Reminds me of the days with Ray Hall, Ottens, Richo, Benny Gale, etc. Other clubs didn't know who to put on who.

 

[RunningBounce]

Reminds me of the days with Ray Hall, Ottens, Richo, Benny Gale, etc. Other clubs didn't know who to put on who.

I always enjoyed seeing Ray Hall a long, long way from FB.

Our recent history with FBs that make supporters very nervous might be worth an entire thread!

 

[RunningBounce]

This is where the trading in of Hampson still worries me. If, as I have read in reports, we are going to play Maric a lot more forward then I think we are in strife. I don't think that Hampson cuts the mustard and Maric as a key forward will not work. To have Jack, Maric and TV in the same forward line will mean that our opponents will run the ball out of our forward line far too easily.

We cannot afford to go too tall in the forward line so for mine Jack and TV as talls with King, S Edwards, Knights/McDonough and a resting mid is the way to go.

As far as the backline goes we need 2 talls (Rance and Chaplin) with a 3rd "intermediate" which will be one of Grimes, Batchelor or Dea.

Griffiths is on a 1 year contract as (I think) is Batchelor so one or both may be gone by the end of the season unless they show something. If Astbury does not come on this year he may also be gone so our so called depth of talls is tenuous at best.

Interesting to see a different opinion.

I reckon most of us, including me, have the opinion that you need 3 talls forward and 3 talls back. I wouldn't mind seeing this kind of set-up in a pre-season game against a teams that deliberately play lots of talls, like the Swans.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

You're talking like all our VFL KPPs are banging down the door for selection. They're not.
Elton and Griffiths certainly aren't, McBean was before he got injured but is still very undersized and to be honest Astbury only got games because Grimes wasn't fit. If Grimes is fully fit, Astbury probably doesn't get a game.

KPP is an area we need to address in the 2014 draft imo, quantity does not equal quality. We have a number of KPPs, only a handful you would trust week in week out.

Good post

McBean may have had a good year in the VFL, but so have dozens of other talls that have been on our list - gourdis showed heaps, gus graham dominated at VFL level, hughes showed signs, post showed signs, putt showed signs, limbach (IIRC) showed some signs. Now I am excited about McBean, he has some tricks - there is no doubt about that - but so did a lot of the guys on this list (i.e. gourdis was insanely fast and strong, putt was very similar to McBean in terms of agility and versatility etc).

I think the fact McBean is such a standout amongst our developing talls is more of an indictment on the others who show nothing at VFL level (astbury, elton, griffiths).

 

[WATiger86]

This thread assumes we don't have injuries. We have been blessed with the duribility of Rance and JR over the last few years as our bookends. Grimes plays when fit, and blokes like Astbury and Batchelor bide their time in the 2's before coming in when he breaks down. Elton and Griff are next in line but are hardly kicking the door down with their form in the twos. The recruitment of Hampson gives us more options if Vics shoulders play up again.

McBean had an exiciting debut year, but plenty of kids have shown plenty in the two's before offering nothing in the ones - I'd hope he continues to show strong form in the two's this year, getting a taste of senior footy when senior players need freshening up later in the season. Still needs to put on a shed load of weight before being able to play as a KPF in the AFL.

 

[telsor]

Yes, we have a bunch of young KPPs.

KPPs take time, and we need several, so we pick a bunch, give them time and if 1 in 2 'makes it' we get the KPPs we need. If we get more, we have trade bait. If we get fewer, we keep trying.