Ross Lyon

[Benji McPherson]

Hey Sainters, I've been reading a lot of fluff on the Freo boards about Ross Lyon being some kind of demigod. Just wondering if, now that the dust has settled, you had an opinion on Lyon's coaching ability?

It is commonly held that you guys had the second best list of the 2000s (behind Brisbane 2001-2003), and I was wondering how much of the club's late 2000s early 2010s successes you attribute to the coaching of Ross Lyon?

Do many of you hold him responsible for the current rebuild, or is that a natural part of a hard-run at a premiership?

 

[Ducky Tie]

He's a fantastic results coach. He can make a very good team a great team. He gets the best out of players. He left at the right time for himself but it was a blessing in disguise for St Kilda, sure we might have made the eight last year with him but it would have only delayed the inevitable and the inevitable would have lasted for much longer than it will now.

Of course he is responsible to some extent for us being where we are, he didn't give the kids anywhere near enough games. But some responsibility must also lie with the recruiters. To have as big a turn over of a list as we've had is down to more than just the coach.

 

[Falchoon]

1 more point and he's a demigod.

 

[Kildonan]

Ross Lyon is a workaholic. His teams know what is expected of them. The players are drilled in every aspect of the game and they work hard to achieve the level of fitness required. At St Kilda he concentrated on topping up the player list with senior players because we were in contention. His development of younger players and fringe players was poor. Despite this he was able to develop game plans that suited the personnel at hand and created roles for certain players that made the team as a whole more effective.

While some poor recruiting decisions made by St Kilda during Lyon's tenure as coach were definitely influenced or directly due to Ross Lyon, he is not responsible for the situation we now find ourselves in. Ross could be quite abrasive though and this appears to have influenced a number of players seeking transfers or quitting altogether.

The last two years of St Kilda's player recruitment has been remarkably successful. 23 players have been turned over in that time, many were not bottom aged kids but a mixture of ages deliberately recruited to partially address the drafting failures of the prior three years. Once we get enough games under the belts of these recruits we will suffer no ill effects from the prior poor drafting.

I admire Ross Lyon as a coach but I don't like some of his characteristics.

Scott Watters is a much better fit for our club at this stage. I truly admire the qualities that Watters brings to our club, many of which I didn't see in Ross Lyon.

 

[Nutsngum]

If he does the same at Freo as he did at the Saints he will lead them to one or two premierships, may win them, but leave them close to ****ed in five or six years so he better well get a premiership with them.

I didnt have much of an opinion one way or the other when he left but now that I see how much development we lost because of his "best 25" style approach I really despise his coaching style.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Great coach.. But not getting games in to the young guys is hurting us, He'll get Freo a premiership if not close to one IMO.

 

[Plugger35]

Overrated.

 

[Fehring]

There's the off field stuff, particularly recruiting recycled players, mostly with less success than Sydney (though his Schneider/Dempster coup was massive). His style of coaching also seemed to wear players - and the club as a whole - down after five or six years.

Then there's the on-field stuff. He has an amazing understanding of the game and an ability to create a game plan which reduces a team's weaknesses. His only failing was not allowing his team to open up and score in red time, which again could cost Freo a flag, but they'll be very, very close and I think they'll land one under him.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Great motivator of men. Flawed strategies of non engagement with the bubble, recruitment of fringe players, inability to develop youth and the manic physically draining game style. Get in front and try and hang on as our players fade.

Lyin will leave Freo as he did the Saints, in a shambles and in need of rebuilding.

 

[sammm]

He's a fantastic results coach. He can make a very good team a great team. He gets the best out of players. He left at the right time for himself but it was a blessing in disguise for St Kilda, sure we might have made the eight last year with him but it would have only delayed the inevitable and the inevitable would have lasted for much longer than it will now.

Of course he is responsible to some extent for us being where we are, he didn't give the kids anywhere near enough games. But some responsibility must also lie with the recruiters. To have as big a turn over of a list as we've had is down to more than just the coach.

he must be blamed for partially the recruiting problems even the fact of who the recruiters were.

but i am getting sick of hearing his name. Can't we just forget he exists.?

 

[stkildathunda]

In Strength Through Loyalty, to be launched at a club function on Saturday, St Kilda chief executive Michael Nettlefold talks of Lyon's "bizarre" and "unusual" behaviour late in that season, and says the coach ultimately headed to Fremantle for "purely commercial" reasons.

Nettlefold said he sensed there was a problem because Lyon's "behaviour had been quite unusual" over the final months of the 2011 season, culminating in a "bizarre night" when the Saints lost an elimination final to Sydney.

Within 30 minutes of the final siren at Etihad Stadium, Lyon had announced the unexpected retirements of Steven Baker and Robert Eddy as well as ruckman Michael Gardiner.

Nettlefold said in the ensuing days the Saints believed they had resolved several months of contract talks with Lyon's management group, Elite Sport Properties, and had scheduled a media conference for that Thursday.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/tea...rre-final-hurrah/story-e6frf9n6-1226632573755

 

[Squizz]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/saints-give-their-side-of-lyon-saga-20130430-2ir54.html
Saints give their side of Lyon saga

Nettlefold said: ''Ross had a contract that ran for a further 12 months. What Ross had was provisions to terminate the contract with three months' notice. We also had a provision to that extent. We felt it was commercially prudent to have that in place."

''The discussion on a new contract started with Ross when we went to him and said we wanted to extend beyond the following year, so it was almost 18 months in advance of the expiry of his contract. We said would you like to commit longer and is that something you want to do? He said it was, so we went through the process."

''It included increasing his salary quite dramatically. We drove that discussion, so it's hard to see how his comment reflects that situation.''

The book also details the axing of Lyon's predecessor, Grant Thomas. Former president Rod Butterss said Thomas was all but gone midway through 2006. He was sacked after an elimination final loss to Melbourne. ''I know that there were two directors who wanted to sack him even if he won the premiership,'' Butterss said.

Nathan Burke, a current board member, also lays into Thomas and another former coach, Stan Alves.

 

[Squizz]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/tea...rre-final-hurrah/story-e6frf9n6-1226632573755

Thought this bit was interesting given Walls has never refuted comments that he near-on brokered the deal.

"Lyon's candidature was put forward by former player and coach Ken Sheldon, not former Fitzroy coach Robert Walls, as has long been suspected."

 

[mysainters]

I truly hope he didn't coach for his win/loss record in 2011, that would lessen my opinion of him immensely....not that I'm likely to ever know.

 

[Baldur]

Within 30 minutes of the final siren at Etihad Stadium, Lyon had announced the unexpected retirements of Steven Baker and Robert Eddy as well as ruckman Michael Gardiner.

He lost me here. Baker was a good club man he deserved to be told by the coach man to man that his time was over, which it clearly was, not hear about it in the news. I recall writing a rant about it on this forum saying it was time for him to go. And pesto he was gone.

Was useful when the Bay attempted to troll me, I could quote myself calling for his head before he left.

 

[sauce_head]

I doubt is will do well with Freo. His game plan is vulnerable and they certainly dot have the personnel with the skills we had. Most notably their key forward is already in decline.

I watch Freo matches here in Perth. It's obvious they still flood and go defensive when ahead. I think I was the only person in the whole stadium who was not surprised inthe least when Essendon came back to win. We used to go defensive upon having a lead as well, the difference is we had the quality personnel to get us over the line.

 

[CHBench]

Which is funny because heaps rate Freo's list as better than our 09 one. Their list is pretty overrated IMO.

 

[Sheeza69]

Great motivator of men. Flawed strategies of non engagement with the bubble, recruitment of fringe players, inability to develop youth and the manic physically draining game style. Get in front and try and hang on as our players fade.

Lyin will leave Freo as he did the Saints, in a shambles and in need of rebuilding.

From the horse's mouth without divulging my source, there was at least 13 players who were going to leave..!So i'm glad he hightailed it, because if he didn't, players like Armo & others wouldn't be at the Saints today.

 

[sauce_head]

Which is funny because heaps rate Freo's list as better than our 09 one. Their list is pretty overrated IMO.

Will stand corrected if Freo win every match of the season bar a draw and a tight loss. And lose the GF on an unlucky bounce against the best team in recent history. Seriously, their list is not a patch on what ours was - laughable.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

From the horse's mouth without divulging my source, there was at least 13 players who were going to leave..!So i'm glad he hightailed it, because if he didn't, players like Armo & others wouldn't be at the Saints today.

I had the same mail. A lot of the younger/fringe players weren't happy with his style. He had his favorites. It's no coincidence that a lot of players came out after SW arrived saying what a breath of fresh air. However he has still remained popular with a lot of the senior players.

That aside but for a toe poke and awkward bounce this team would have gone down as the greatest St Kilda team ever and he would have been the coach of that and received the well deserved plaudits that woudl have come with it. It was a hell of a ride.

However I don't think Freo has the same quality of list especially forward.

 

[Sheeza69]

I had the same mail. A lot of the younger/fringe players weren't happy with his style. He had his favorites. It's no coincidence that a lot of players came out after SW arrived saying what a breath of fresh air. However he has still remained popular with a lot of the senior players.

That aside but for a toe poke and awkward bounce this team would have gone down as the greatest St Kilda team ever and he would have been the coach of that and received the well deserved plaudits that woudl have come with it. It was a hell of a ride.

However I don't think Freo has the same quality of list especially forward.

SW has been a breath of fresh air, & significant thought was applied in selecting him. He is a wonderful mentor for young men & with the Saints embarking on one final churn of it's list later this year, our list will be predominately 25 & under next year. Therefore Watters was earmarked immediately to coach the Saints, once Lyon jumped ship.

 

[SaintLex]

Ross Lyon was a quality strategist and his game plan was, for better or for worse, revolutionary.

However, for all his success on the field (discounting a way-ward bounce and a pesky toe-poke), our team was in shambles off the field.

- Player development was way down. Instead of putting some confidence in the younger blokes like the good teams do (see: Collingwood, Geelong), Lyon went with entrusting the duties to players that would not help us in the long run (Peake, Polo etc.) What that means is while you may have a period of success, it will not be sustained in the long run. So even if we did come away with 1-2 premierships, we would still be in this crappy situation now. Not good enough. A football club is more than just 1-2 years of success every now and then.

- Player management was terrible. As mentioned, there are strong rumours to suggest that the some of the few talented young blokes we had drafted would be playing elsewhere if Lyon had stayed. They just weren't getting a fair go or any reward for their efforts. Why stay and be behind a Peake when you should be at the point of cementing a spot in the 22? Not just that but a few older players like Ball electing to leave. I think I remember reading somewhere that it had something to do with Lyon either not playing him or not letting him properly recover from injury?

- The damn 'bubble'. I still think we're seeing the after-effects of the bubble still in place right now. While the club has definitely opened up a lot more with Watters at the helm, it's no secret that we are way behind in areas like social media. It was never fully embraced in the Lyon era and as a result has fallen by the way-side in terms of priorities. Of course, this effects our club's ability to market itself, which is directly linked to membership numbers.

Lyon is like a Big Mac. Tastes good now, makes you sick in the long run.

 

[CHBench]

Good luck getting anywhere in a team sport when your squad is divided. The split worked for everyone, Ross is bailed out of his debts and avoids exposing his weakness by taking on Freo, Freo get a harder edge and with that some long overdue respect from the opposition, and we get that dose of freshness through the desperately stale joint.

 

[goodie23]

Within a footy club it's hard to know exactly who is responsible for what unless you're on the inside.

From my perspective Lyon did a lot of things right, brought in a new game plan, masterminded the stingiest defence in the AFL, brought together a fantastic array of assistant coaches.

He lacked boldness and foresight however. He too often used the same moves, tactics and players and the long-term damage to our list was immense. The retirement farce was a shocker and he pretty much ended our foray into Ireland. Whatever one's opinion of Tommy Walsh as a footballer, it's daft to find a youngster, woo him, fly him out, keep him on the rookie list for two years, promote him to the senior list and never give him a damn game. No wonder he fled to Sydney which now looks like a massive win for us. Just as well we've turned our attentions to New Zealand because I can't imagine any Irish being interested in coming to us.

Considering the holes in our list now, imagine them compounded with a Lyon-inspired exodus.

He left us with a sour taste in our mouths and I'll wager he'll do the same to the Shockers.

 

[sauce_head]

It's as simple as this for me. I moved to Perth and needed to decide which membership to get in order to watch some footy from good seats. I could not stand the though of watching game after game of the Ross Lyon game plan having gone through it for so long. So I decided to get an Eagles membership. Then I found out there was a 5 year wait, so guess what I did?


I am waiting five years.