Opinion Roughy needs to do more..

[Brishawk]

Yes, that's right. Not elite.

Footy is a team game. The fact that we've lost three out of 27 isn't solely because of him. You could say that Isaac Smith is elite on that logic, because he's been involved in the 24 wins too.

I've followed the Hawks since 70s and although most years have been good to me, I know to take nothing for granted, because there's been some shockers.

Read my post again, especially after the "BUT". You'll see I appreciate the big fella.

How can the reigning Coleman medalist not be elite? By definition he is the best in the league. The only forward in the league who might be recognized as better player by the end of 2014 is Cameron.

Funnily enough, Smith is one of only two players in our team that regularly get a tag. IMO he is the best true wing-man in the league. You would be amazed at how much space he creates for others on top of being a big ball winner for us and a goal kicker.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Clarkson is systematically removing the opportunity for hawthorn players to be one-out heroes.

The emphasis on defence, one per centers and flexibility across different positions within a single game make it really hard for players to get 35 possessions, or six goals plus in a game.

Roughy is so good at the non-stat things. I shudder at the thought of him not being there - he is an absolute ripper.

He went into the guts last week when we were getting pantsed. He may have even been the guy that took the mark I defensive 50 when Essendon had their last roll of the dice.

The thing that bothers me about roughy is his poor kicking in big games. Missed a couple of shockers in the prelim last year, for example.

But people need to check the goal stats of key forwards when good teams play each other.

Last year:
Grand final - Gunston 4, Pavlich 3, roughy 2, Franklin 1

Prelims:
Gunston 4, Pavlich 2, Franklin 1, Hawkins 1, JPod 0, roughy 0

Semi finals:
Westhoff 3, Waite 3,
Shultz 2, Hawkins 2, JPod 0,
Tippett 0

1st week:
Waite 4, Gunston 3, JPod 3, Shultz 3, Cloke 2, Pavlich 2, Roughead 2, Tippett 2, Westhoff 1, Riewoldt 1

In the big games it is the mid sized forwards that do the damage. Gunston, Steve Johnson, Chapman, etc.

For key forwards against good sides it goes like this:
4+ goals: almost unheard of
4 goals: probably biggest goal scorer on the ground.
3 goals: won your position
2 goals: contributed as expected
0-1: probably beaten on the day.

We also share it around more with marking targets: Gunston roughy hale and previously Franklin meant a smaller slice of the pie for each, and Norman making the most of the attention the others got.

Different season now and I think roughy will step up. Has to learn a new role. TOBs opponents so far have not been forced into accountable roles, so we haven't spread defenses as well as we would like. Watch what happens with the Spang or the Schoe in the squad.

 

[Brishawk]

Exactly. I think people have to realise what an exceptional performer Buddy was in big games. The guy was an absolute freak. 5 times he kicked 4 or more goals in a finals match in 14 appearances. And that doesn't include the 3 goals he kicked on one leg in the preliminary final against Collingwood in 2011. His 2012 grand final match was one of the best finals performances I have see even though he kicked 3.5. Even his 2013 GF performance was good when conditions did not suit and he spent a lot of time running decoy for Gunston. You are talking about a once in a generation player. That is not normal!

One thing is clear about Roughy is that he can have a down day and then go into the midfield and win his own ball. The 2013 grand final was exactly this. He was vital in the second half for providing a greater presence. I thought he also lifted against Essendon in the second half. Yes, it wasn't 3 freak goals in 5 mins the way buddy has done it but we don't win that game without him.

 

[Ordovician]

Roughy remands me of the old saying:

The Roughead is slow but the Clarkson is patient.

In that sense they are a perfect fit.

Clarko gets Roughy to perform his various roles and Roughy obliges.

As a key forward I'd love to see Roughy hold more more marks and be an elite forward but at 27 I'd guess this is as good as it gets.

Where Roughy is elite is as a second ruck/ruck rover imposing himself in the centre square but we don't get to see much of this these days.

 

[Gene Simmons]

I can predict Roughys goal output over the next 3 matches:
vs FREO - 2 goals
vs GOLD COAST - he'll kick 5 (3 late in the 4th Qtr)
vs CATS - 1 goal

So far so good...

 

[Dipper]

Roughy remands me of the old saying:

The Roughead is slow but the Clarkson is patient.

This made me chuckle.

 

[Davo23]

So far so good...

I've got headings for your next couple of threads:

1. Luke Hodge is just a Loose Defender.

2. Sam Mitchell is Fat & Slow


Thank me later

 

[Gene Simmons]

I've got headings for your next couple of threads:

1. Luke Hodge is just a Loose Defender.

2. Sam Mitchell is Fat & Slow


Thank me later

Why would I create those threads? Those statements are untrue...

 

[Faraway Hawk]

According to official AFL stats, Roughead is the 2nd best forward in the comp and the 16th best player across all positions.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The 'forward only kicks (insert apparently low number) of goals, therefore isn't doing their job' argument is beyond moot. 21 goals against the apparent best defensive structure in the history of sports, despite us taking our foot off the gas. Why, exactly, does Roughy have to kick bags every week?

 

[Gene Simmons]

The 'forward only kicks (insert apparently low number) of goals, therefore isn't doing their job' argument is beyond moot. 21 goals against the apparent best defensive structure in the history of sports, despite us taking our foot off the gas. Why, exactly, does Roughy have to kick bags every week?

Roughy doesn't have to kick bags every week.. I think he adds alot more to a fwd structure/team than just 'goals'. My initial point at the start of this thread had nothing to do with the amount of goals he kicks!

My point was that Roughy does not impose himself when it comes to crunch games. I stand by that - I also stand by my prediction that Roughy will blitz next week vs Gold Coast and disappear the following week vs Cats.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Roughy almost 20 & 3'd again. He's doing plenty.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Roughy almost 20 & 3'd again. He's doing plenty.

He's taken over from Judas too in roaming the field trying to help get the ball forward should we require it too. His versatility is underrated. Yet another casualty of people who only judge a player by what they do when they have the ball.

 

[Xtreme]

The only thing he needs to do is get to work on producing future father & son selections!

 

[Roddy]

Clarkson is systematically removing the opportunity for hawthorn players to be one-out heroes.

Been noticing exactly this for the last year to a year and a half, or more.

Just check the amount of AA players we've had in the last 5 or 6 years, compared to the Cats, Pies, Swans etc.

Also check the individual player comparisons on Bigfooty, Hawk players always lose these (although part of that is pure jealousy). They can have their AAs and Brownlows and MVPs etc etc, we'll just take the flags thanks....

 

[Gene Simmons]

Good game by Roughy today.

But as long as he performs well against the lower sides we'll be alright

 

[buddyruff]

He was fuqing useless today. Did my head in. I don't think he's ever played well against Geelong.

 

[Gene Simmons]

He was fuqing useless today. Did my head in. I don't think he's ever played well against Geelong.

I think you will find that Roughy never performs well in any game that has any meaning to it... On a side note, how refreshing was it to have a forward like Gunston who could take a contested mark against the Geelong defenders.

 

[KOLOKOTRONIS]

Roughead rarely plays well against Geelong, because we just bomb it in time and time again. It is ridiculous really. We never play with any system against Geelong, because we mentally crumble when the pressure is on. Beef Roughead is fine! It is the team that struggles, not the beef!

KOLOKOTRONIS

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Horrible yesterday.

Starting to wonder whether he is a flat-track bully.

 

[MC_9]

I actually think he is a little bit out of form this year, and it has just been covered up because he has managed to get some easier goals through our dominance.

He seems to be miss judging the flight of the ball badly at the moment. He is jumping far to early for the ball, and then because he can't mark it correctly he just throughs one hand up. There was one occasion yesterday were he jumped for the ball, and then landed before the ball had even gone past him.

Unfortunately that is the sign of a player out of form.

 

[BigAl3001]

It is clear to me that Harry Taylor owns Roughy. Takes contested marks on him, doesn't even try to spoil anymore. Rough needs to get back to basics.
Start marking the ball with TWO hands. Enough of this fend off backetball shite. He needs to get on his bike and lead up the ground and then work back. Yesterday, he was so down he should have been instructed to play as a decoy and take Taylor away from the contest and Gunston's space to work. He needs to take his chances in the bigs games because they may be rare. He missed two goals he should have kicked, hits the post from 40m on a slight angle and missed a crumb from the edge of the square. C'mon Roughy, step up and be the man monolith you should be.....

 

[Gene Simmons]

I can predict Roughys goal output over the next 3 matches:
vs FREO - 2 goals
vs GOLD COAST - he'll kick 5 (3 late in the 4th Qtr)
vs CATS - 1 goal

ACTUAL RESULTS
vs FREO - he kicked 2 goals
vs GOLD COAST - 4 goals
vs CATS - 0 goals

 

[Gralin]

Rough rolled his ankle and had to play the game out with strapping. He also played up the ground a lot more probably taking a defender away. Not his best game, not his worst.

Gutted it out but his body language was not what you want from a leader towards the end, though most of the players had their heads down at that point.

Can anyone who was their comment on how much rough played in the 50 yesterday because on TV it looked like he was playing outside the 50 and delivering it in a lot yesterday

 

[Bosk]

I actually think he is a little bit out of form this year

I suspect it has more to do with him copping the #1 defender each week and opposing teams no longer being paranoid about manning up on Franklin.