List Mgmt. Round 1, 2015 Full strength team

[CocoMambo]

I am surprised by the lack of support for Cutler. We need a half back and IMO he should get first shot. He can contribute and playing him would adhere to our youth policy.

I'm a big fan of Cutler and long-term believe that he will be first choice at the half-back flank however personally feel it would be nice if we had a team next year with the majority of first choice players having completed more than two pre-seasons and having played >20 games. We can let Cutler continue to develop physically in the reserves whilst we explore if Beams/Harwood/Golby can take that next step (Which is more mental based).

 

[EskiBro]

I am surprised by the lack of support for Cutler. We need a half back and IMO he should get first shot. He can contribute and playing him would adhere to our youth policy.

Gotta disagree about needing a HB. We've got Adcock, Harwood, Golby, C. Beams, Rich, Hanley, McStay and Cutler, plus we drafted one or two more that play HB.

I thought Cutler looked really composed with his first few games and he can look forward to a long career, but he's actually got a lot of competition for the spot he plays best.

 

[cotter101]

Gotta disagree about needing a HB. We've got Adcock, Harwood, Golby, C. Beams, Rich, Hanley, McStay and Cutler, plus we drafted one or two more that play HB.

I thought Cutler looked really composed with his first few games and he can look forward to a long career, but he's actually got a lot of competition for the spot he plays best.

I think Cutler will be a better re bounder and defender in general than most of the players you've listed above. He is tall, quick and willing to take the game on. I've got him in my side.

 

[carnthemlions]

Gotta disagree about needing a HB. We've got Adcock, Harwood, Golby, C. Beams, Rich, Hanley, McStay and Cutler, plus we drafted one or two more that play HB.

I thought Cutler looked really composed with his first few games and he can look forward to a long career, but he's actually got a lot of competition for the spot he plays best.

Rich isn't a defender, and I think Hanley is too damaging to leave at half back. Adcock plays a different role, Cutler brings classy ball use that Harwood and Golby lack. Beams is something of an unknown in the position.

 

[Bert Man]

Rich isn't a defender, and I think Hanley is too damaging to leave at half back. Adcock plays a different role, Cutler brings classy ball use that Harwood and Golby lack. Beams is something of an unknown in the position.

Harwood's ball use whilst not classy is not ineffective. He averaged 15.4 effective disposals from 18.6 disposals a game. He isn't flashy and he is suspect to the occasional brain fade but he gets the job done and is easily best 22.

 

[Caiphus]

Our best 22 in round 1 is almost certainly not going to be the same as our best 22 in round 23. I'm almost inclined to put our most experienced 22 on the park from Round 1 and select the side on form after that... some superstars of the future might miss out on that basis, but they should force their way into the side eventually.

 

[cotter101]

Harwood's ball use whilst not classy is not ineffective. He averaged 15.4 effective disposals from 18.6 disposals a game. He isn't flashy and he is suspect to the occasional brain fade but he gets the job done and is easily best 22.

Yeah, he's like Adcock in that he is a safe kick. Not exactly a damaging one though. Wouldn't say he is easily best 22 though.

My current best 22 is:
B: Darcy Gardiner, Daniel Merrett, Ryan Harwood
HB: Jed Adcock, Justin Clarke, Tom Cutler
C: Daniel Rich, Dayne Beams, Pearce Hanley
HF: Sam Mayes, Daniel McStay, Dayne Zorko
F: Josh Green, Johnathan Freeman, Stefan Martin
R: Matthew Leuenberger, Tom Rockliff, Jack Redden
I/C: Mitch Robinson, Rohan Bewick, Allen Christensen
Sub: James Aish/Lewis Taylor.

 

[Ray Button]

Yeah, he's like Adcock in that he is a safe kick. Not exactly a damaging one though. Wouldn't say he is easily best 22 though.

My current best 22 is:
B: Darcy Gardiner, Daniel Merrett, Ryan Harwood
HB: Jed Adcock, Justin Clarke, Tom Cutler
C: Daniel Rich, Dayne Beams, Pearce Hanley
HF: Same Mayes, Daniel McStay, Dayne Zorko
F: Josh Green, Johnathan Freeman, Stefan Martin
R: Matthew Leuenberger, Tom Rockliff, Jack Redden
I/C: Mitch Robinson, Rohan Bewick, Lewis Taylor
Sub: Allen Christensen

Pretty much agree, although (i) I think Christensen probably shades all of Zorko, Green and Taylor at this stage of their respective careers, so I'd swap in Christensen and put Sqizzy on the sub bench, and (ii) I'd have Staker in place of either McStay or Freeman.

 

[Ray Button]

Oh, and (iii) you'd have to give serious consideration for Aish in place of Bewick!

 

[cotter101]

Pretty much agree, although (i) I think Christensen probably shades all of Zorko, Green and Taylor at this stage of their respective careers, so I'd swap in Christensen and put Sqizzy on the sub bench, and (ii) I'd have Staker in place of either McStay or Freeman.

Oh, and (iii) you'd have to give serious consideration for Aish in place of Bewick!

I did actually mean to swap Squizzy and Christensen around.

Forgot about Aish. I'd be more inclined to leave Bewick in a remove one of Robinson/Taylor. With the depth we're getting, It'll be hard fitting everyone in. I think Bewick is going to have a big year. Needs to play off the back flank though. Can play anywhere which is handy too.

I had Staker there originally but moved him out. Is he back in training or will he be ready for round 1?

 

[Ray Button]

I think our depth is the best it's looked for years. There are at least a dozen guys that can lay claim to the last 4 or 5 possies in the team, so at Round 1 it will come down to who's fit, who's not and who has had some blinders in the pre-season games.

 

[Billy Puller]

All I reckon is aish Mayes and Bewick are the ones to watch this year. Expect Bewick to finally put it all together and Mayes also. Aish is all class and another pre season means more time in the middle. More time to show us what he's got. He will end up a lappin/black hybrid I think. and FWIW I think he will stay. Not at all worried about him leaving.

 

[Fatcat08]

It's interesting that there are a lot of teams with Paparone not getting a look in. I can understand this from an offensive point of view as he has struggled a bit in that regard however he adds a mountain of work to our defensive structures. In the games he missed or when he was off we tended to be caught out a fair bit through on the switch and struggling to cut off that ball about the centre square line. His running ability really showed in our defensive structures as he covers a lot of prospective space. Even if he didn't get the ball he certainly cut off a number of options. That work alone would have him in high contention for a spot in the team. I'm hopeful his offensive side can come more the to fore as well this season as he becomes a bit better with his running patterns and marking on those long bail out kicks to the wings.

 

[Quigley]

My thoughts on a couple of mentions:

Paparone - his kicking has improved a huge amount since he has been at the club. If that continues he is in the starting line up. Great height, can play anywhere and can goal. His defensive running is also a significant factor. He is border line best 22 for me. Sometimes I have him in the side sometimes not.

Harwood - anyone who followed along this year would know I am a fan. He is anotherr whose disposal has improved and although he still muffs a few he does often have a bit of hurt factor coming out of defense. His work below the knees is light years ahead of any of our other defenders and has to be considered. He cleans up lot of messes at the back with his hands where if it were others there would have been shots on goal for the opposition.

Cutler - I really like his running and long kicking ability and think he will be a weapon for us long term. I can see Leppa wanting to get games into him although atm I do not see him as being best 22 (I do have him best 25 though). Defensively he needs a bit of work.

Aish - certain best 22 starter imo. Lots of scope for improvement and he is already good enough. I play him ahead of Taylor fwiw especially with Christensen now in there.

Mayes - hopefully he is back up forward. He is our most natural leading forward and if the role is right I see him kicking 40 goals next year. Yes he can run up and down but we need to better use his most dangerous skill.

Robinson - I have watched a lot of Robinson over the years and he is borderline best 22 given the guys we have added. He played a lot as a defensive forward over the last couple of years and I struggle to see him in that role with the small/medium forwards we now have at our disposal. I see him splitting games with the likes of Bewick, Cutler, McStay and anyone who develops. I have set the over/under for games played at 14.5. I figure 7 for best 22 and 7 for when others are injured.

 

[Ironmonger]

Top post Quigley.

Robinson is in some ways a similar player to Moloney, Raines, Lester, Polkinghorne and Golby, all of whom have found it tough to get a game under Leppitsch. They're all players who bring a lot of physicality but can't always be relied upon to use the ball well. All of them were given the opportunity to change their game in some way last season and I reckon Robinson will be treated the same way.

So it's a bit hard to tell whether he's in our best 22 or not. We don't really know what the expectations are for him, but I doubt he'll just be allowed to play the same game he has for Carlton the last couple of years and consistently make the seniors.

 

[EskiBro]

Rich isn't a defender, and I think Hanley is too damaging to leave at half back. Adcock plays a different role, Cutler brings classy ball use that Harwood and Golby lack. Beams is something of an unknown in the position.

I saw an interview with Rich. He said that he and Hanley were going to alternate between defence and midfield roles 2015. Rich actually played off HB for the first two games this year in an effort to shake the tag.

Harwood criminally under rated, but agreed, is susceptible to the odd really bad clanger that makes him look much worse than what he is.

Golby played injured most of last year. Don't judge him on that. Apparently moving and training very well so far this pre-season, one of the stand outs both in the repeat 400s and ball use. During match drills, he has been used a lot in the midfield group though, apparently doing quite well in the clearances.

C. Beams and Rich have been training exclusively with the defensive group from what I hear and Beams has been used as the "kick in specialist" during training drills, which indicates Leppa thinks of him as a best 22 defender.

I'm not sure that Cutler plays a too different a role than Adcock. I thought they were both rebounding medium defenders, but I'm open to being corrected there as I've only seen Cutler at AFL level and he was sub for 3 of those games.

Having said all that, I wouldn't be disappointed to see Cutler there round 1.

 

[EskiBro]

I think Cutler will be a better re bounder and defender in general than most of the players you've listed above. He is tall, quick and willing to take the game on. I've got him in my side.

Agree 100%. He will be better than most of the guys I mentioned (Rich and Hanley probably have him covered), I just don't he will be by round 1.

BTW, I hope you're right on our KPFs in your best 22. Really hope we start with McStay and Freeman up there, but I'd rather our third KPF be Close/Staker and Martin joins the midfield rotations or floats into defence when not rucking. Personal preference only though.

 

[Billy Puller]

I think Cutler will get his chance when Adcock retires

 

[jackess]

I don't think Paparone's skill, speed or defensive running makes up for his inability to win contested footy.

 

[Quigley]

I don't think Paparone's skill, speed or defensive running makes up for his inability to win contested footy.

Just looked at the stats. First three players I picked by way of comparison were Bewick, Adcock and Taylor. Paparone has the best contested possession rate of the 4. He is not an inside ball winner but he can win the contested ball and is a pretty good mark. He is still light in the body but as he develops I think he will be very difficult to handle for outside types.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

It's OK. I've discovered what's wrong - we have too many players.

 

[Viceregal]

It's OK. I've discovered what's wrong - we have too many players.

Should we rent some out to the Demons so they can develop them for us?

 

[L Dizz]

Just on Harwood, I feel his defensive game is ahead of the majority of those other smaller defenders mentioned. While rebound is important, we shouldn't forget the primary job of defenders is to defend.

 

[EskiBro]

Just on Harwood, I feel his defensive game is ahead of the majority of those other smaller defenders mentioned. While rebound is important, we shouldn't forget the primary job of defenders is to defend.

Yep, finish 14th in the B&F, which doesn't sound great until you realise, he only played 14 games. If he continued his average votes over 22 games, he would have finished 6th or 7th (Martin would've won it). Hard to see him missing out on a spot.

McStay in a similar boat. Finished 25th, but would've been pushing for a top ten spot based on averages. Again, can't see him missing out.

 

[POBT]

Just looked at the stats. First three players I picked by way of comparison were Bewick, Adcock and Taylor. Paparone has the best contested possession rate of the 4. He is not an inside ball winner but he can win the contested ball and is a pretty good mark. He is still light in the body but as he develops I think he will be very difficult to handle for outside types.

Yeah, I reckon people see what they want to see here. He's not a beast at the contest but he attacks the footy hard enough.