Discussion Round 1 Best 22

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The thing about it is, in a lot of lines, we are starting to have a ton more players than we can fit in the 22. That's been one of the great things about doing this exercise of the Round 1 Best 22, The amount of players on each line that I've had to say, "Ooh... yeah I can't fit them in." For example, I didn't fit in Roberton, Wright, Saunders, Curren (that near killed me!), Saad (albeit because of the rookie thing), Murdoch, Membrey (although he could come in for Lee, but that creates another example of my point!), etc. And that's just off the top of my head.

There is real competition for spots. While none of them are competing to be as good as the Hawks or Swans next year, admittedly, they ARE competing with each other, and that should draw them to pursue further improvement. It's a deep list, even if it's not yet a mature one.
 
Sep 18, 2011
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B: Sean Dempster, Luke Delaney, Nathan Wright
HB: Shane Savage, Sam Fisher, Jimmy Webster
C: Jack Newnes , Luke Dunstan, Leigh Montagna
HF: Tom Curren, Nick Riewoldt, Tim Membrey
F: Jack Billings, Spencer White, Eli Templeton
R: Tom Hickey, David Armitage, Jack Steven
I/C: Billy Longer, Seb Ross, Mav Weller
Sub: Daniel McKenzie
 

WesternSaint84

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B- Dempster Delaney Webster
HB- Savage Fisher Geary
C- Montagna Dunstan Newnes
HF- Membrey Riewoldt Saunders
F- Billings Bruce Longer
R- Hickey Armitage Steven
Int- Curren Ross Ray
Templeton
 

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STK2020

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Im really backing a Full pre season of Richo training , educating and coaching this team , add in hopefully a fit Fisher , Hickey , Armitage, Geary Templeton, Gilbert . All things above we didn't have in 2014 .
 
Depends on injuries IMO. If it's a repeat of the last two years we'll really struggle but if we can have a decent run I think we could mayyyybe sneak in 5-7 wins? I'd love to avoid the bottom.
 
May 29, 2012
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Ouch !
I was thinking win 5-7 games , get of the bottom hopefully start building a winning culture amonst a very young list .

As I look at the schedule, its difficult to see us winning any of the games in isolation. Thats what happens when you're officially the worst team in the league (many people seem to have been caught up in the club positivity and forget this fact).
However there's always 2 or 3 games in the year when you get a jump on a team. Not only that, but we aren't going to be on primetime TV very much, so we won't have many altered/short weeks. There's always a good chance we get someone coming off a 6-day week and overrun them.

We'd need about 5 players to have breakout years, and get a lucky run with no injuries, in order to be competitive. I think Richo will be focusing on statistic-based performance indicators again rather than actually winning.
 
Jan 7, 2011
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Injuries are a huge key. If we get a bunch of key ones again we will again be in awful trouble. If we don't, then we may pull a few surprises and could easily have a much stronger backline and stronger forward line. Our midfield may even be stronger in spite of having lost Lenny, if Steven and Joey return to their best and a few of the younger ones like Ross really step up.
 
Let me add, that I think we'll do much better than last year, because of the players we lost in 2013. We had to cover the loss an amazing amount of our previous team.

Firstly, we lost those who retired: 1, Kosi; 2, Milne; 3, Blake.

Then we lost 4, Saad, to suspension.

Then we lost 5, Dal Santo to FA.

Then we lost 6, McEvoy to trade.

Then, due to early injury in 2014, we effectively lost: 7, Armitage; 8, Geary; 9, Steven; 10, Fisher; 11, Gilbert; 12, Roberton.

That's TWELVE players that had been part of our best, and most settled, 22 players in 2013, that we barely ever had in 2014. That is going to, at the very least, mean a severe lack of cohesion among the players. We all loved that so many newbies got a go last year, but as IF they were going to work as a cohesive group, when so many of them had hardly played the game before, let alone played with each other! Thrown in a brand new coach, with a brand new game plan! The poor kids had the cohesion of a bunch of chooks with their heads cut off!

Add to that the loss of experience and talent that those TWELVE players represent!

This year, many of last year's newbies now have a bit more under their belt. In terms of significant loss of personnel over the off-season, it's effectively Lenny, Stanley, and Schneider (because if he gets upgraded, then we have even more problems!). So we will be more cohesive as a team, and don't have the kind of horrendous losses to personnel that we had in 2013.

Personally, I'm expecting us to do much better than most are expecting. I'm saying we'll finish around about 10-14th.
 
Let me add, that I think we'll do much better than last year, because of the players we lost in 2013. We had to cover the loss an amazing amount of our previous team.

Firstly, we lost those who retired: 1, Kosi; 2, Milne; 3, Blake.

Then we lost 4, Saad, to suspension.

Then we lost 5, Dal Santo to FA.

Then we lost 6, McEvoy to trade.

Then, due to early injury in 2014, we effectively lost: 7, Armitage; 8, Geary; 9, Steven; 10, Fisher; 11, Gilbert; 12, Roberton.

That's TWELVE players that had been part of our best, and most settled, 22 players in 2013, that we barely ever had in 2014. That is going to, at the very least, mean a severe lack of cohesion among the players. We all loved that so many newbies got a go last year, but as IF they were going to work as a cohesive group, when so many of them had hardly played the game before, let alone played with each other! Thrown in a brand new coach, with a brand new game plan! The poor kids had the cohesion of a bunch of chooks with their heads cut off!

Add to that the loss of experience and talent that those TWELVE players represent!

This year, many of last year's newbies now have a bit more under their belt. In terms of significant loss of personnel over the off-season, it's effectively Lenny, Stanley, and Schneider (because if he gets upgraded, then we have even more problems!). So we will be more cohesive as a team, and don't have the kind of horrendous losses to personnel that we had in 2013.

Personally, I'm expecting us to do much better than most are expecting. I'm saying we'll finish around about 10-14th.

Absolutely this.
Then to make it even harder some of our most promising youth were injured.
Wright, Lee ( Hell Maister wasn't even available ), Hickey, Templeton.

It was simply a horrid year for injury.
 
May 29, 2012
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Im really backing a Full pre season of Richo training , educating and coaching this team , add in hopefully a fit Fisher , Hickey , Armitage, Geary Templeton, Gilbert . All things above we didn't have in 2014 .

It is a sad indictment of our list that we apparently missed Templeton - a kid taken in the rookie draft with 3? AFL games to his name. You're the third or fourth person I've seen in the last few months suggest this. We didn't have above-average injury numbers on the year. The problem is our list is not very good, so injuries have a greater impact.
 

STK2020

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It is a sad indictment of our list that we apparently missed Templeton - a kid taken in the rookie draft with 3? AFL games to his name. You're the third or fourth person I've seen in the last few months suggest this. We didn't have above-average injury numbers on the year. The problem is our list is not very good, so injuries have a greater impact.
What you call sad , I call upside, Eli I thought provided pace, energy and defensive pressure inside forward 50. If I remember right we won early games last season with a healthy list , maintain that we could win more .
 
Absolutely this.
Then to make it even harder some of our most promising youth were injured.
Wright, Lee ( Hell Maister wasn't even available ), Hickey, Templeton.

It was simply a horrid year for injury.
Good point. In fact, I would argue that for 2013, Lee had been part of the best 22 by the end of the year - those 17 goals from 10 games were actually for the LAST 10 games, if I recall correctly, which means by then he'd settled in to an integral part of the forward structure, but wasn't there come 2014. That's now THIRTEEN players - that's 60% of the starting 22 - having changed effectively in the 2014 starting lineup.

Let me put it this way:

These are the holes from our best 22 in 2013, during most, if not all of 2014:

FB: Gilbert, Fisher, Geary
HB: Roberton, Blake, ---
C: Armitage, Steven, Dal Santo
HF: Saad, Kosi, Milne
FF: Lee, ---, ---
R: McEvoy, ---, ---
IC: ---, ---, ---, ---

Tell me how a team that has just lost THAT much of each their lines is NOT going to get the spoon, no matter who they are!

We are not remotely in that situation this year.
 

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Nutsngum

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It is a sad indictment of our list that we apparently missed Templeton - a kid taken in the rookie draft with 3? AFL games to his name. You're the third or fourth person I've seen in the last few months suggest this. We didn't have above-average injury numbers on the year. The problem is our list is not very good, so injuries have a greater impact.

Our season ending injuries alone were above average let alone the weeks missed by others during the year and minor injuries effecting performance.
 

Smoke_Me_AKipper

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It is a sad indictment of our list that we apparently missed Templeton - a kid taken in the rookie draft with 3? AFL games to his name. You're the third or fourth person I've seen in the last few months suggest this. We didn't have above-average injury numbers on the year. The problem is our list is not very good, so injuries have a greater impact.

I think you mean inexperienced rather than not very good. I have to disagree with what you are saying re injuries. yes we didn't have above average injuries but have a look who was injured. Basically all of our 24-28 year olds and we didn't have many of those to begin with!! You take Gilbert, Geary, Armitage plus a fit Steven & Montagna and an injury free Hickey we are a different team. A more competitive team. Would we win more games? Probably not. But we would be so much more competitive.

We have a huge list of kids who are very talented and who will make the grade. I'm not going to name them as all regular posters including yourself know them inside out. We also have some kids whom have shown glimpses and may or may not make it. Again we all know who they are too. Remember Joey and BJ took time before they clicked.

So for you to say our list is not very good is not really accurate. I think you mean to say the problem is our list is not very experienced. Then yeah absolutely. Spot on. Agree with you. Give it another year or three whilst these 18-22 year olds move into the 21-25 year olds. Add one or two free agents and then we will start to see something.
 
May 29, 2012
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Our season ending injuries alone were above average let alone the weeks missed by others during the year and minor injuries effecting performance.

It's normal to have a handful of injuries. Even the unscientific example of my AFL dreamteam attempts show almost a third of my list getting significant time out, if not season-ending!

KP players tend to be susceptible to stress injuries in feet and joints, in particular rucks. We had 1 out for most of the year (Hickey) out of 4, and it was a pre-existing condition. Pierce & Holmes were never playing AFL barring a crisis. In hindsight its bloody lucky Longer fell into our lap, as going into the year without him would have been foolish (presume we’d have recruited a mature body somehow).
For defenders, Fisher was already hurt coming into the year, he slotted in once fit. Dempster got a concussion but wasn't out much. Other KPs were fine.
Gilbert has been riddled with injuries for three seasons now - at some point instead of saying it's unlucky, we have to accept its just plain stupid to expect anything from him, let alone have him pencilled in as best-22 and playing 20+ games. Similar with Markworth; its fair to consider them injury-prone. Acres came into the year injured, not a great preseason under him.
Maybe Geary was unlucky, and Wright was particularly unlucky with contact impact injuries. Armo also should have missed a couple, but was unlucky to get an infection and miss about a month more than he should.

We really didn't have more injuries than other clubs. Our problem was that they affect us a lot more as we had players that just aren't that great making up about a third of the list - bear in mind we were playing Sam Dunell and Beau Maister this year, Simpkin as a forward, and TDL and Milera waiting in the wings!
And I'd say we were actually below average in the number of injuries in our forward line.

I don't think we can hope for less injuries. We will always get roughly the same number of injuries as we saw this year. What we can hope for, is that in the event of injury, they happen in positions on the ground where we have other promising players to step into, and that they step up their own performance when given the opportunity.
 
Is McCartin out of all these teams because he lost to Seb Ross in a marking contest?
No, he's out of all these teams because he's a KPF, and everybody realises that young KPFs need time to develop. Besides, we already have a more developed option for that FF role in Spencer White. Why rush Paddy and risk injury?
 
According to MilneMagic, Longer's been banned from the first three matches for coming back in *ahem* less than ideal condition...

peter-griffin.jpg
 

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