Discussion Round 1 Best 22

[andy_cav]

Here is my attempt for Round 1 guys, plus a few thoughts/justifications:

Dempster Delany Geary
Savage Fisher Webster
Templeton Armitage Newnes
Billings Riewoldt Montagna
Lonie Lee Bruce
Hickey Steven Dunstan
Weller Acres Ray Roberton

- There are a number of players playing Round 1 that won't be in the team by the end of the year. The club will be keen for positive results early in the year to try and generate excitement and momentum (with an eye firmly on membership numbers), so guys like Ray and Roberton will be getting a gig because they have bigger bodies and experience.
- Roberton in particular has received a bit of press about how he has bulked up and can potentially play a KPD position (which I personally don't buy), so think he will be in the team to add flexibility and cover should Delany/Fisher/Dempster not be able to contain an opposition forward line.
- I have listed Templeton on the wing based on reports coming out of the club.
- Similarly, I have put Lonie in the team ahead of Saad/Schneider/Minchington as the initial word on him has been highly impressive, plus he is a specialist forward pocket, which is an art in itself- just look at Milney and Ballantyne.
- I personally don't rate Weller, as I see him as in the same boat as Curren, Saunders, Murdoch et al. in being a good VFL player but not up to AFL standard (certainly not in a good team). I would have put Ross in ahead of him (who I have similar reservations about) but as many have pointed out, we already have a number of slow inside mids and Weller is ahead of him at this stage purely because he is in the leadership group.
- The forward line is by far the trickiest part of the ground to work out. I personally hope that by the end of the year, McCartin and White are both in that team instead of Bruce and Lee, but right now I feel Bruce (and potentially Lee in the ruck according to reports) adds flexibility, while Lee has reportedly had a good pre-season at last. Let's not forget that he was given another contract at the end of last year, which wouldn't happen- given his limited output so far- unless the club and/or coach wants him in the team. I wish both McCartin and White could play right now if I'm honest, but all the messages from the club indicate McCartin will be treated with care initially, while White has been described as "getting there" or something similarly underwhelming by the coach at the same press conference where he talked about how fantastically well Lee is coming along.
- Unlike most people, I don't have Membrey in the team. This is on the basis that as of right now, he has done bugger all at AFL level, and I haven't heard the coach raving about him like he has some others.

Keen to hear your thoughts!
-

 

[aussierulesrules]

For one, I wouldn't lump Roberton in with Ray as someone who is only a short term solution, as I still see his best footy being well and truly ahead of him and see him as our best 3rd tall option down there if Gilbo isn't fit and if Bruce is playing forward (I'd rather Dempster play on someone shorter). According to someone who spoke to him at the open training session (probably Gringo) Robbo told him that the talk of him playing key position was crap though, so 3rd tall is about as far as he is likely to go there and if he is 7kg heavier he ought to be ideal in that role at 194cm.

As for Weller, he was clearly in our team for the last however many rounds of last season because of his tagging. As a "straight out mid" he would certainly only be VFL standard I'd say, but his tagging looks to be AFL standard for sure (note the job he did on Fyfe for instance).

 

[CursingFijian]

As for Weller, he was clearly in our team for the last however many rounds of last season because of his tagging. As a "straight out mid" he would certainly only be VFL standard I'd say, but his tagging looks to be AFL standard for sure (note the job he did on Fyfe for instance).

If we look at retirements and delistings I think it provides some insight into the clubs future focus. Weller's emergence as an elite stopper who can provide some run off his man is, IMO, the biggest driver in Jones non-contract. And on that basis I can't see him not in the best 22. Curren and Geary are probably the only other two who can effectively play the same role.

 

[joop]

Here is my attempt for Round 1 guys, plus a few thoughts/justifications:

Dempster Delany Geary
Savage Fisher Webster
Templeton Armitage Newnes
Billings Riewoldt Montagna
Lonie Lee Bruce
Hickey Steven Dunstan
Weller Acres Ray Roberton

- There are a number of players playing Round 1 that won't be in the team by the end of the year. The club will be keen for positive results early in the year to try and generate excitement and momentum (with an eye firmly on membership numbers), so guys like Ray and Roberton will be getting a gig because they have bigger bodies and experience.
- Roberton in particular has received a bit of press about how he has bulked up and can potentially play a KPD position (which I personally don't buy), so think he will be in the team to add flexibility and cover should Delany/Fisher/Dempster not be able to contain an opposition forward line.
- I have listed Templeton on the wing based on reports coming out of the club.
- Similarly, I have put Lonie in the team ahead of Saad/Schneider/Minchington as the initial word on him has been highly impressive, plus he is a specialist forward pocket, which is an art in itself- just look at Milney and Ballantyne.
- I personally don't rate Weller, as I see him as in the same boat as Curren, Saunders, Murdoch et al. in being a good VFL player but not up to AFL standard (certainly not in a good team). I would have put Ross in ahead of him (who I have similar reservations about) but as many have pointed out, we already have a number of slow inside mids and Weller is ahead of him at this stage purely because he is in the leadership group.
- The forward line is by far the trickiest part of the ground to work out. I personally hope that by the end of the year, McCartin and White are both in that team instead of Bruce and Lee, but right now I feel Bruce (and potentially Lee in the ruck according to reports) adds flexibility, while Lee has reportedly had a good pre-season at last. Let's not forget that he was given another contract at the end of last year, which wouldn't happen- given his limited output so far- unless the club and/or coach wants him in the team. I wish both McCartin and White could play right now if I'm honest, but all the messages from the club indicate McCartin will be treated with care initially, while White has been described as "getting there" or something similarly underwhelming by the coach at the same press conference where he talked about how fantastically well Lee is coming along.
- Unlike most people, I don't have Membrey in the team. This is on the basis that as of right now, he has done bugger all at AFL level, and I haven't heard the coach raving about him like he has some others.

Keen to hear your thoughts!
-

Lol, Membrey has done bugger all at AFL level? What did you expect from a 20 year old who's played 1 game behind Franklin, Tippett & Goodes?

 

[crasha301]

Lol, Membrey has done bugger all at AFL level? What did you expect from a 20 year old who's played 1 game behind Franklin, Tippett & Goodes?

And Reid.

 

[aussierulesrules]

If we look at retirements and delistings I think it provides some insight into the clubs future focus. Weller's emergence as an elite stopper who can provide some run off his man is, IMO, the biggest driver in Jones non-contract. And on that basis I can't see him not in the best 22. Curren and Geary are probably the only other two who can effectively play the same role.

It's Mav's spot to lose and I think it's fair to say that the club considered him to be better at it than both Jones and Curren by the end of last season and I think for that reason Curren might have his work cut out for him getting a game for us when/if we're at or near full strength this year, as there are others who will probably start to get a game ahead of him up forward as well.

 

[CursingFijian]

It's Mav's spot to lose and I think it's fair to say that the club considered him to be better at it than both Jones and Curren by the end of last season and I think for that reason Curren might have his work cut out for him getting a game for us when/if we're at or near full strength this year, as there are others who will probably start to get a game ahead of him up forward as well.

Curren is one that I can't peg for the life of me. He started as small defensive forward and, if I'm not wrong, quickly transitioned into run with. I can't say he set the world on fire. BUT....he is a very powerful unit which by all reports stems from the fact he is an elite trainer. He drive standards within the club. And he does some really courageous things on the footy field. I recall a fantastic chase and tackle against one of the competitions elite players (Boak? Hartlett? Rioli? Can't quite recall.) which boasts a strength of mind that coaches and fans alike love. And from a couple of posts on here he has the potential to be a prolific ball winner in his own right, having already demonstrated this in the VFL. To be honest I would like to see him play a few more so I can continue to evaluate him, but not sure if that will be allowed to happen.

 

[CursingFijian]

I was just toying with the idea of naming the team by role rather than position, before I try to put names into baskets. This is what I came up with. Anybody got suggestions?

 

[aussierulesrules]

It's hard to say who out of Saad, Curren, Saunders, Lonie, Minchington, Sinclair and Schneider will get a game if we are close to full strength and whether they will be fighting for as little as one spot (one of the forward pockets). If they are fighting for just one spot, that is an awful lot of competition!

 

[andy_cav]

For one, I wouldn't lump Roberton in with Ray as someone who is only a short term solution, as I still see his best footy being well and truly ahead of him and see him as our best 3rd tall option down there if Gilbo isn't fit and if Bruce is playing forward (I'd rather Dempster play on someone shorter). According to someone who spoke to him at the open training session (probably Gringo) Robbo told him that the talk of him playing key position was crap though, so 3rd tall is about as far as he is likely to go there and if he is 7kg heavier he ought to be ideal in that role at 194cm.

As for Weller, he was clearly in our team for the last however many rounds of last season because of his tagging. As a "straight out mid" he would certainly only be VFL standard I'd say, but his tagging looks to be AFL standard for sure (note the job he did on Fyfe for instance).

I would love for Roberton to end up a player for us going forward, but (and this is just my opinion of course) through a combination of injury and general ability, I don't think he is quite at the level. He isn't a pure defensive player who can shut down a man, and at the same time I would rather have Fisher, Savage or Webster rebounding out of defence (all 3 have better skills). So to me he's sort of stuck in no man's land. As I say though, very happy to be proven wrong!

As for Weller, I'm not convinced about his tagging ability so we might have to agree to disagree here too. I remember Curren doing some absolutely superb jobs in the back half of 2013, whereas I seem to remember Weller's man getting a fair bit of the ball in quite a few games last year. The coach clearly loves Mav, but I definitely wouldn't put him in the top bracket of taggers in the comp.

 

[andy_cav]

Lol, Membrey has done bugger all at AFL level? What did you expect from a 20 year old who's played 1 game behind Franklin, Tippett & Goodes?

Sorry, didn't mean to be having a go at him as such, just pointing out that a lot of people here have him in the team ahead of guys like Lee, Bruce and even White, who have all shown at least a bit at various stages. Membrey has certainly been starved of opportunities, but being younger/worse than Franklin, Tippett and Goodes doesn't necessarily mean that he is any better than the aforementioned 3.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I would love for Roberton to end up a player for us going forward, but (and this is just my opinion of course) through a combination of injury and general ability, I don't think he is quite at the level. He isn't a pure defensive player who can shut down a man, and at the same time I would rather have Fisher, Savage or Webster rebounding out of defence (all 3 have better skills). So to me he's sort of stuck in no man's land. As I say though, very happy to be proven wrong!

As for Weller, I'm not convinced about his tagging ability so we might have to agree to disagree here too. I remember Curren doing some absolutely superb jobs in the back half of 2013, whereas I seem to remember Weller's man getting a fair bit of the ball in quite a few games last year. The coach clearly loves Mav, but I definitely wouldn't put him in the top bracket of taggers in the comp.

I think the thing about Robbo is that he brings that good balance between being useful defensively on someone with height (and possibly a lot better now that he isn't so skinny!), while also being good offensively as well, as he proved to be in 2013. Having someone with that versatility is very handy, especially if Gilbo doesn't happen to ever get over his injury issues. Robbo can play on someone reasonably tall and then run off them and while his kicking can be hit and miss, he is capable of good kicks on both feet, which is handy.

As for Mav, I think it's pretty clear that the coaching staff rate his tagging over that of say Curren, or that they rate something he is doing or bringing to the table over him, otherwise I expect Curren would have the no.1 tagging role. It may be that they like his extra size and height in there, with that extra couple of inches making him a bit more suitable on the bigger and taller opponents like Fyfe, Mundy, Watson, etc.

 

[Periphery]

I was just toying with the idea of naming the team by role rather than position, before I try to put names into baskets. This is what I came up with. Anybody got suggestions?



View attachment 110525

That's great! I might try to make a team up using this format later on.

My only suggestion is pretty picky but I'd change "Goal sneak" to "Small forward" just to be consistent.

 

[gringo2011]

For one, I wouldn't lump Roberton in with Ray as someone who is only a short term solution, as I still see his best footy being well and truly ahead of him and see him as our best 3rd tall option down there if Gilbo isn't fit and if Bruce is playing forward (I'd rather Dempster play on someone shorter). According to someone who spoke to him at the open training session (probably Gringo) Robbo told him that the talk of him playing key position was crap though, so 3rd tall is about as far as he is likely to go there and if he is 7kg heavier he ought to be ideal in that role at 194cm.

As for Weller, he was clearly in our team for the last however many rounds of last season because of his tagging. As a "straight out mid" he would certainly only be VFL standard I'd say, but his tagging looks to be AFL standard for sure (note the job he did on Fyfe for instance).

Roberton actually said "the opposite" of KPP ...I assume from what he was saying was more of a running player as he mentioned his fitness and running. Shenton also said he's super fit and expects to run out games much better as he was struggling with cramp etc. We have running backs covered with plenty of options right now. Bruce claimed he's a forward now. Curren and Saunders both said they were staying forward as far as they know. Eli and Billings both contesting with the mids.
I saw Wellers last game for the GC and was hoping like hell we got him after they delisted him. He played a sort of backline sweeper who ran through the middle and looked awesome He had about 28 possessions from memory and most were very good. I think he has potential if he loses the shackles. His pace is the only real concern to me.

 

[gringo2011]

I would love for Roberton to end up a player for us going forward, but (and this is just my opinion of course) through a combination of injury and general ability, I don't think he is quite at the level. He isn't a pure defensive player who can shut down a man, and at the same time I would rather have Fisher, Savage or Webster rebounding out of defence (all 3 have better skills). So to me he's sort of stuck in no man's land. As I say though, very happy to be proven wrong!

As for Weller, I'm not convinced about his tagging ability so we might have to agree to disagree here too. I remember Curren doing some absolutely superb jobs in the back half of 2013, whereas I seem to remember Weller's man getting a fair bit of the ball in quite a few games last year. The coach clearly loves Mav, but I definitely wouldn't put him in the top bracket of taggers in the comp.

He is a bit of a forgotten man, 2013 he was a revelation, 2014 was an absolute shocker, it was like two different players. We went to training preseason last year and I was a bit worried about his happiness, he seemed really flat and like he wasn't switched on. This year he seems to be up and about and looks happy and ready to roll. I'm not suggesting he was depressed but I think his ankle had been giving him real problems and he wasn't enjoying footy. IMO not by anyone qualified.
He's a beautiful size and he's looking massively cut now. His junior days he was a decent athlete doing track stuff mostly I believe. He has an awkward style but he is very competent at everything he does. He rarely gets caught but isn't fast, rarely missed targets despite looking like he has a funny kicking style and makes good decisions. He's got the tools to make it it will be a competition for that spot though.

 

[pebblesofsand]

He is a bit of a forgotten man, 2013 he was a revelation, 2014 was an absolute shocker, it was like two different players. We went to training preseason last year and I was a bit worried about his happiness, he seemed really flat and like he wasn't switched on. This year he seems to be up and about and looks happy and ready to roll. I'm not suggesting he was depressed but I think his ankle had been giving him real problems and he wasn't enjoying footy. IMO not by anyone qualified.
He's a beautiful size and he's looking massively cut now. His junior days he was a decent athlete doing track stuff mostly I believe. He has an awkward style but he is very competent at everything he does. He rarely gets caught but isn't fast, rarely missed targets despite looking like he has a funny kicking style and makes good decisions. He's got the tools to make it it will be a competition for that spot though.

Yes people forget how good his 2013 was - figures look reasonable n comparison to Gilberts 2009 year.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...39&type=A&fid1=P&fopt1=2013&fid2=P&fopt2=2009

 

[aussierulesrules]

Weller's kicking a fair sized negative for mine as well as his lack of pace, Gringo. His kicks don't necessarily look bad aesthetically in flight, but way too many miss their intended targets by a considerable margin for my liking. That's more of a negative than his pace IMO.

 

[gringo2011]

Weller's kicking a fair sized negative for mine as well as his lack of pace, Gringo. His kicks don't necessarily look bad aesthetically in flight, but way too many miss their intended targets by a considerable margin for my liking. That's more of a negative than his pace IMO.

I think that's a bit to do with the role CJ didn't look to bad when he was playing as a mid against Melbourne last year. The taggers run themselves ragged then have to pick off chips like a seagull. They don't get time to balance in traffic so can spray the ball a bit. He's not awesome by any stretch but he can get the job done IMO. I don't think he's likely to be a superstar but I can see him carving out a Farren Ray like career. He is a big strong unit who is adaptable to a variety of rolls, the coaches love the adaptable ones.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Yeah, being tired probably doesn't help, but it wasn't just kicks out of traffic that weren't good, it was ones out in the clear and open with no-one particularly close to him which he was regularly missing by a big margin, plus we heard before we even got him that his kicking was pretty ordinary, so I think he has a lot to work on as far as that goes. Seems to really lack touch and precision. He's hard as nails though, so if he can have a really good tagging career CJ is proof that it doesn't necessarily matter if your kicking is poor (and his kicking isn't as bad as CJ's).

 

[felsty]

I think the thing about Robbo is that he brings that good balance between being useful defensively on someone with height (and possibly a lot better now that he isn't so skinny!), while also being good offensively as well, as he proved to be in 2013. Having someone with that versatility is very handy, especially if Gilbo doesn't happen to ever get over his injury issues. Robbo can play on someone reasonably tall and then run off them and while his kicking can be hit and miss, he is capable of good kicks on both feet, which is handy.

As for Mav, I think it's pretty clear that the coaching staff rate his tagging over that of say Curren, or that they rate something he is doing or bringing to the table over him, otherwise I expect Curren would have the no.1 tagging role. It may be that they like his extra size and height in there, with that extra couple of inches making him a bit more suitable on the bigger and taller opponents like Fyfe, Mundy, Watson, etc.

Mav is tiny though isnt he? Him and Curren are short people compared to those blokes you reeled off.

 

[Periphery]

Mav is tiny though isnt he? Him and Curren are short people compared to those blokes you reeled off.

Mav is listed at 182cm.

 

[Barrels]

Sorry, didn't mean to be having a go at him as such, just pointing out that a lot of people here have him in the team ahead of guys like Lee, Bruce and even White, who have all shown at least a bit at various stages. Membrey has certainly been starved of opportunities, but being younger/worse than Franklin, Tippett and Goodes doesn't necessarily mean that he is any better than the aforementioned 3.

IMO your premise is flawed before you even get going; Why? Well...

Bruce: 196cm
White: 196cm
Lee: 194cm

Tippett: 201cm
Franklin: 198cm
Reid: 196cm
Goodes: 191cm

Membrey: 188cm

With the (arguable) exception of Goodes, who plays more a roving role these days anyway (and is a freakin BROWNLOW MEDALIST!), the reason he's not jousting with these blokes, or didn't play ahead of them, is that they're genuine KPPs, and Membrey is not.

Sure, he played as an undersized key forward at TAC Cup level, but he's clearly the kind of burly, aggressive 3rd talk we've been crying out for since Hamill's knee crapped out.

He's an absolute lock for mine.

 

[hayes]

Was he talking in terms of games or the AFL in general? If he was talking about games then doesn't matter who was ahead of him he's still right you'd have to say..

 

[andy_cav]

IMO your premise is flawed before you even get going; Why? Well...

Bruce: 196cm
White: 196cm
Lee: 194cm

Tippett: 201cm
Franklin: 198cm
Reid: 196cm
Goodes: 191cm

Membrey: 188cm

With the (arguable) exception of Goodes, who plays more a roving role these days anyway (and is a freakin BROWNLOW MEDALIST!), the reason he's not jousting with these blokes, or didn't play ahead of them, is that they're genuine KPPs, and Membrey is not.

Sure, he played as an undersized key forward at TAC Cup level, but he's clearly the kind of burly, aggressive 3rd talk we've been crying out for since Hamill's knee crapped out.

He's an absolute lock for mine.

It wasn't my premise that was flawed. The only reason I mentioned those 3 Sydney guys is because some other posters above had used them as examples of why Membrey wasn't getting a game. I agree that he is a different type of player to them. But that only means that he was behind OTHER guys at Sydney- at least someone was keeping him out of the team for a full 2 years (except for that 1 game).

I fully acknowledge that he is still young, which clearly played a large part in why he hasn't played many games. I just don't understand how people can say he is a lock in a team when he has played 1 game coming into his 3rd year, especially when there are guys like Bruce who have played 24 games and at least shown something at AFL level. Not saying that Membrey won't ever show anything, but right now he is clearly behind Bruce, Lee and even White in terms of his proven ability at AFL level.

 

[Mindtraveller]

IMO your premise is flawed before you even get going; Why? Well...

Bruce: 196cm
White: 196cm
Lee: 194cm

Tippett: 201cm
Franklin: 198cm
Reid: 196cm
Goodes: 191cm

Membrey: 188cm

With the (arguable) exception of Goodes, who plays more a roving role these days anyway (and is a freakin BROWNLOW MEDALIST!), the reason he's not jousting with these blokes, or didn't play ahead of them, is that they're genuine KPPs, and Membrey is not.

Sure, he played as an undersized key forward at TAC Cup level, but he's clearly the kind of burly, aggressive 3rd talk we've been crying out for since Hamill's knee crapped out.

He's an absolute lock for mine.

Similar role to what Bruce was playing towards the end of last year? That aggressive 3rd fwd?

Possible he'll ever rotate through the midfield?