Review Round 12, 2015 - Bulldogs vs Brisbane Lions

[AFLQLD]

Some observations:

In terms of contesting, we are clearly a long way off. They were first to the ball with numbers most of the night. We are missing Rockliff and missed Robertson when he went off. I think with those two in we would immediately be a tougher proposition in contests around the ball. Hanley and Redden are well short of full match fitness as well.

I can't see a future for O'Brien sadly. He tries hard and obviously cares but I'm not sure he can play any role that others can't. I am fairly sure Keays would go straight past him in the pecking order next year. I think ZOB is a midfielder of last resort - will dominate at the lower levels but that is unfortunately it.

I think we can all acknowledge that Leuwy probably has no real role unless he is first ruck - and Martin has made that his own. We would be paying a lot of money to a backup ruckman.

I think Andrews actually strengthens our team and should come back in. Beasley and Bourke are OK but not yet. My gut feeling on Bourke is that he might be one of those players who is good enough to rise above NEAFL level but not quite good enough at AFL level. Hope I am wrong.

Clarke will, I am sure, be criticised by some but I think he is doing an experienced defender's job with not nearly enough experience. He makes errors because the ball is coming in to the defensive fifty dozens of times a game leaving him often one out on the key forward. Overall though, he is toughing it out every game while the troops around him change constantly. He has been the only stable factor at the back all year and trying to lead other young tall defenders while he tries to learn himself, all while taking the opposition's toughest forward. It is a big ask and he needs help.

McStay showed he can play like a forward, a second or third tall at least, but he really needs to grab some of his big marks. McStay is going to have to develop his defensive side pretty quickly as well.

Robinson made plenty of mistakes but we really need him at the moment just for his effort and willingness to compete. He adds something we lack.

Rich had an off night and didn't look himself at all. There may have been something going on but he really was down on effort. Zorko much the same.

Taylor is another one who will be criticised but I think some of his problem is that he needs creative runners around him to work off. Instead he is finding nothing. Taylor would be a star in other teams that have that quick transition. At present we have it only in brief patches. Taylor is an opportunist when the game breaks open, not the instigator of the play. He will look much better when the team does. In the meantime, at least he keeps trying.

Cutler will be good but needs a lot more time yet. Bewick is handy as a backup and showed a bit of tagging ability but really he is the depth player that you would occasionally play due to injury, as much as I like his effort.

Green gets criticised but at least offers goals and some run. He is reasonably good at his job but could work a little harder defensively still, but not alone there. Right now, he is our best hope of multiple goals.

Paparone is developing still but he has an influence when we can use his best assets. Far too often he is doing defensive heavy lifting which is not really his go. I still think he adds a lot to the team.

Lester was quiet and his worst game since coming back in. Adcock was disappointing and a little disinterested.

Martin, Beams and Christensen were solid. Christensen is another who I think will always seem disappointing unless there is fast ball movement for him to exploit. He still got in and had a go. Hanley will be better for the run. In my opinion, until Rocky is back, Hanley should be the captain.

Overall it is disappointing. But all those calling for delistings and mass changes for next week, or even the dreaded coach sacking need to get a grip. This team is too young especially in key positions to show much at all. Our big problem is contesting - one that we just have to fix. Get that right and we will look a much better team.

 

[lionbear]

that was a hard night at the game, my first game for the year, sat on the third level and was really not undestanding of how far we arew off the boil until I actually saw a game in person.

Its really hard to know what to say about it though, our side just has so many players missing, I think they tried hard but just don't have the cattle availale to compete for a full 4 quarters.

Rich was either injured, or just didn't want to play tonight, he looked so slow and his kicking didn't have any of its usual penertration.

We need a key forward, and Aish if he walks must come with either a key forward in the deal or a draft pick to allow us to get e key forward that can create a contest.

I sat next to a mate who was a Geelong supporeter and actually asked the question I wonder what would have happened if we took Joel Selwood instead of Luenburger with that draft pick, I can't question his skill, ability, or comitment to the cause, but the injuries that the number 23 has had to carry his entire career just seems to have taken a toll on a bloke who with good run would be the premier big guy in the game.

The only positive for the night is I have come home in a brand new 40 years of color television Fitzroy jumper

 

[snooplions]

Zorko and rich are not captain material imo.

Redden shouldn't be thrown up for trade after one poor performance straight after a lay off with injury

Our three recruits are leading the way week in week out. Good trading last year.

I would've turned the game off if it wasn't for McStay being on song. I hope he never leaves the Lions, probably my favourite player.

 

[Boristown]

It's tough for us to be competitive when our KPPs are so young.

It's also tough to win when you're best midfielder is injured.

And when you lose one of your best players to GWS the year before.

And recently having sacked your coached

And had a board in turmoil

And a club struggling financially

Everything was against us tonight.

Sorry about the result. Lions are just undermanned at the moment but there were some flashes tonight to build on.

Interesting that your list could also refer to the Bulldogs.

Young KPPs.
Libba injured.
Lost Griffen to GWS.
Sacked their coach.
Board was under siege last year.
Always on the edge financially.

Both clubs have had similar set backs recently. Will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

 

[PTizzle]

Sorry about the result. Lions are just undermanned at the moment but there were some flashes tonight to build on.

Interesting that your list could also refer to the Bulldogs.

Young KPPs.
Libba injured.
Lost Griffen to GWS.
Sacked their coach.
Board was under siege last year.
Always on the edge financially.

Both clubs have had similar set backs recently. Will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

I was also thinking when I read that list that all of those points Jackess posted could apply to the Doggies to some extent.

They're just so much better drilled and balanced than we are at the moment. They might not have amazing KPPs but they're targets who at least regularly contest and the ability of the likes of Stringer and Bontempelli up forward make them versatile and unpredictable. We're playing a ruck who our coach admitted isn't a KPF up there because we literally have nobody else. Our KPDs had 46, 3 and 2 games under their belt. Our midfield is underdone and we had crucial players having very off nights. But on paper we shouldn't be as far from the Dogs as the scoreboard reflected and given the margin in the third term we shouldn't have lost by that much.

Supremely frustrating. Sounds like Robertson will miss a few weeks from what Leppa's saying too. To some extent there's not a lot of point analysing games like this as it's hard to see how it'll turn around, just have to back the lads in to go out and do it.

The defence not working as a group is one thing I'd really like to see improve and should happen naturally. Clarke/Bourke/Beasley/Paparone (and Andrews/Gardiner when they're playing) all seem pretty solid 1 on 1 but we've let some fairly mediocre forwards kick bags on us. Not having Patfull there to offer that assistance and calming presence has hurt us more than I ever thought it would. Hopefully Merrett coming back and some more games into a settled group (which will be hard on another note, I'd love to start with Clarke/Merrett/Gardiner/Andrews/Paparone but it might be too big and lacking rebound somewhat) will show some more help defence in the form of third men up at contests, double teaming when appropriate and not leaving open players in the D50 so much.

When we were up and about you could definitely see the defence working for each other and although it's extremely difficult for them given we're under siege it's crucial we see that come back in the coming weeks. Making tackles stick is another short term goal that I'd love to see as well.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Redden concerns me quite a bit. He had a great start to his career but really hasn't come on since. Can only think of a handful of matches where he's had a real influence and tonight his awareness was just nonexistent. First game back from a bit of a layoff but still, you'd expect much better from him.

Most importantly though, I just don't know if he's a very good midfielder of late. For some time now he hasn't been very good at winning clearances, his tackling has been considerably down on what we've come to expect, and his ability to shepherd and make space for teammates has disappeared too.

Hard to single players out after a performance like that but it was the most concerning in a string of worrying games that Redden has had.

As for Rich, what can you say? He's a sublimely talented footballer but just does not seem to have the football smarts to match his skills. He'll quite likely be a player who looks outstanding in a good win and appalling in a bad loss for the rest of his career, I think.

Leppa mentioned leadership but it really is what we're missing. Our two most vocal players on the field over the past few seasons have been Brown and Rockliff, and to be without both for chunks of this season has made things really difficult. Taylor seems to do a bit of it but for the most part we're just silent out there. Not good.

And finally, as someone who hasn't played much football bar at a junior level I'm always hesitant to comment too strongly on gameplans, but I really don't know if this slower, more measured style is one that suits our list. We simply don't have the skills to pull it off on a number of levels - execution of the kicks, marking of the receivers, leading of the forwards when it comes to the inside 50 kicks - it's just not working.

 

[Harris Specter]

To me, as I mentioned in the game day thread, it's not the fact that we're losing that's the issue, it's the manner in which we're losing. Slow start, get a couple of quick goals, respectable margin at half time, again start to come good then fade away when the opposition goes up another gear, eventually becoming a 10 goal+ loss.

Where are our leaders? When is one of the 08 class, or earlier, going to stand up and take the game by the scruff? Who is our tackling coach, why do we always see the opposition players getting their arms free in spite of 2-3 of us on them, eventually outnumbering us at a contest? It's frustrating to see them miss tackles, sure some may say "They're young, their bodies haven't matured yet."

But this game was against the Bulldogs, a team full of youngsters, arguably even younger than us. As the shitty commentators loved to point us, 12 players under 50 games.

It's a genuine worry that for the first time I can remember, I'm slowing starting to feel disinterested in the Lions, and am more interested in how the other teams play. How they play with passion, fire and a never say die attitude. An attitude, that we once had with Vossy. Sure, we've had some youngsters depart, but we've had some seasoned players who should well be stepping up and staking their claim on this football club. It's a shame that we have to wait for Rockliff to come back into the team for us to show any signs of competitiveness.

What's even more surprising is that these blokes just had the week off, coming from the bye, they should be fresh off the blocks, ready to attach the contest. 2 goals down in the opening minutes told me that we were going to be in for a long day. Injuries suck, but it doesn't stop you from giving 110% at each contest. What I saw from the likes of Redden, Adcock, Leuenberger and even Zorko was downright disgusting. There's no point showing up on Monday mornings at press conferences saying "We need to take ownership" if you're going to put in half-arsed attempts on the big stage where people pay to watch you play.

At the end of the day, Leppa can only do so much as the coach. Saw a few times where players looked like they had given up halfway through the 3rd quarter with hands on their heads and hips and bending down. YOU GUYS JUST CAME BACK FROM A WEEK OFF, YOU SHOULD BE RUNNING THE GAME OUT.

I'm off to the UK for a good 3-4 months, and I was considering getting the AFL Pass to catch the games live. After tonight's disgraceful performance, I'm actually glad to be getting away from the pathetic rubbish they've been calling football. Something needs to change at the Gabba, the culture, people say this word a lot, but the culture is reflective of a lazy team, not willing to put in effort.

 

[BrizzyBandit]

I didn't think our clearances were all that bad tonight up against a good clearance team. We've been a very poor clearance team for a long time now.

I hope your joking.

 

[KissKiss]

I'm off to the UK for a good 3-4 months, and I was considering getting the AFL Pass to catch the games live. After tonight's disgraceful performance, I'm actually glad to be getting away from the pathetic rubbish they've been calling football. Something needs to change at the Gabba, the culture, people say this word a lot, but the culture is reflective of a lazy team, not willing to put in effort.

I'm in Europe at the moment and at first I was annoyed about missing a home game, reading this makes me not so upset

 

[Bucking Beads]

Haven't seen the game but wow we can't afford to be losing by 70 odd points in any matches. How have the Bulldogs improved so much and our squad has not?

 

[Sausages]

After having a good night's sleep, I have a new perspective:

Trade anyone who has currency now. Start a proper, focused, publicised rebuild with the board endorsing the coach to see this process through by putting forward a 5 year deal.

We haven't done a rebuild, just tried to gapfill where we could. And results over the least few years suggest this hasn't and isn't working. Any player born earlier than 95 on our list won't be part of our top 4 team, never mind a premier.

 

[BrizzyBandit]

Would have loved to seen a fit a firing Gardiner on Stringer tonight

 

[Sherrinator]

Haven't seen the game but wow we can't afford to be losing by 70 odd points in any matches. How have the Bulldogs improved so much and our squad has not?

They drafted players with mongrel. Not many flashy players on that list..

 

[CarterS]

It's a genuine worry that for the first time I can remember, I'm slowing starting to feel disinterested in the Lions, and am more interested in how the other teams play. How they play with passion, fire and a never say die attitude.

Something needs to change at the Gabba, the culture, people say this word a lot, but the culture is reflective of a lazy team, not willing to put in effort.

Sums it up for me. Our confidence shatters at the smallest hurdle.

 

[CarterS]

They drafted players with mongrel. Not many flashy players on that list..

Mongrel is exactly what we need. Leppa is coaching this team with Lethal above him - this shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Sherrinator]

Mongrel is exactly what we need. Leppa is coaching this team with Lethal above him - this shouldn't be a problem.

Lethal's interest in this team is 2nd to his media commitments.

 

[Lockie]

Went to the game disappointing to lose by that much when we were within 6 points at one stage. We certainly looked slow and what is going on with Rich...doesn't look the goods at the moment. Beams and Martin put in all night.

Only highlight was the vocal bLions blokes up on level 3 in the bLions area who were trying to get the chant going in the game even when we were down and out and seeing the Fitzroy kids form the guard for the players to run past.

 

[CarterS]

Lethal's interest in this team is 2nd to his media commitments.

If he cares about the club enough to be involved with the challenge to the board as he is then he surely can be a bit more involved!

 

[CarterS]

Went to the game disappointing to lose by that much when we were within 6 points at one stage. We certainly looked slow and what is going on with Rich...doesn't look the goods at the moment. Beams and Martin put in all night.

Only highlight was the vocal bLions blokes up on level 3 in the bLions area who were trying to get the chant going in the game even when we were down and out and seeing the Fitzroy kids form the guard for the players to run past.

Could hear those blokes on TV at times!

Rich looks a bit like good old Des Headland - jeez he looked good when we won but opposite when we lost - never really learnt to get in and under. That's probably the nature of being a player like he is. he was maybe our best player against Port IIRC

 

[Sherrinator]

If he cares about the club enough to be involved with the challenge to the board as he is then he surely can be a bit more involved!

That's what I would have thought. I think we kind of pressured him into it.

How good would it be to have a well known personality keeping us relevant like Koch and Eddie.

 

[MacMum]

I'm having serious doubts about our coaching squad.

Massive injuries have cruelled us I know, but our highly talented players (and they are highly talented) seem to have gone backwards....unless they are all injured as well.

Can't help thinking what might have been had Vossy still been coach. Also, what difference there would be if Lethal was coach......and how much input he has into coaching methods.

..I have mentioned a long time ago, how Lethal once said during his stint, that he doesn't coach the boys much, they knew what they had to do and how to play. I know our current lot are very young, but they also know how to play or they wouldn't be at this level.

Perhaps give them more free reign to play their natural game. Couldn't be any worse than they are now.

Perhaps they are too bogged down with instructions.

 

[Albi_Mangler]

Games like this are tough to accept but the reality is that we are a young inexperienced team, with no tall forward to speak of, crippled by injuries to key players and leaders, playing away from home every second week. Changing personnel, structures and location is a massive factor in these type of performances.

The Bulldogs may have a similar age profile but they have some significant advantages in building a list and confidence within the team. They play in Victoria so rarely have to suffer home sick players, play at home more often than not ( have only left the state twice to play all year!) They have several good forward prospects and have the rabid Vic media pumping their young players confidence whenever they play well.

It is easy for us supporters to hope for a contest but I think that we have to accept that we are going to suffer games like this quite a bit over the next few years. We do need to look at our drafting and focus on specific personality types based on the conditions we play under. I trust Leppa and the board are fully aware of these facts and no rash decisions will be made.

 

[Sherrinator]

I'm having serious doubts about our coaching squad.

Massive injuries have cruelled us I know, but our highly talented players (and they are highly talented) seem to have gone backwards....unless they are all injured as well.

Can't help thinking what might have been had Vossy still been coach. Also, what difference there would be if Lethal was coach......and how much input he has into coaching methods.

..I have mentioned a long time ago, how Lethal once said during his stint, that he doesn't coach the boys much, they knew what they had to do and how to play. I know our current lot are very young, but they also know how to play or they wouldn't be at this level.

Perhaps give them more free reign to play their natural game. Couldn't be any worse than they are now.

Perhaps they are too bogged down with instructions.

Our only gameplan at the moment should be to shepherd the ball carrier and proper positioning to crumb when we inevitibly spill a mark.

 

[BrizzyBandit]

I want to watch a bigger team next year. Sick of us looking like weeds.

 

[piari]

What is even more disappointing is that Bulldogs had 5 teenagers in their side - we had 2 - where is the value in rebuilding when we can get flogged by a crew of under age performers.

I can't see any passion in the players.

No-one congratulates teammate when they kick a goal - no-one helps a player up when on the bottom of the pack - no-one goes in to help someone who has been isolated in a pack - etc etc. Teamwork is about helping your mates - just didn't see that tonight./

Taylor is a good case in point - he gets the ball a lot but has to turn back because no-one will offer him anywhere to kick to - it was just a forest of blue in front of hime tonight. It was almost as if the dogs conceded the ball to him because they knew he would have to either kick it to their goal or turn it over. No teamwork or encouragement there.

Leadership extends down to the emergency player everyone has a part to play - unfortunately not in the Lions.