VFL Round 2 - Essendon vs Collingwood, Sunday 11:42am at Windy Hill (Live on Channel 7 from 11:30am)

[Hardas]

Of the VFL guys.
Gus Borthwick impressed me and was one of our best. The guy was draft age last year and with a late December birthday. So that pricked my interest. Really nice inside game. Won the contested ball and won the clearances. His progress is worth watching.
Michael Still was our best forward and presented well.
Monkhorst has improved and was another VFL player to relatively speaking impress with his marking, showing some ability in the air and on another occasion working his way into front position.
And Moloney as expected was solid through the midfield.
--
Young was Collingwood's best overall. Overhead strong, kicked well hitting his targets and kicked a goal from outside 50m to start us off.
Karnezis and Fasolo also put their names forward for senior selection as did De Goey with his inside work.
Freeman not as impactful/involved as I hoped.
Moore was good but not great down back. He got stops. Some big spoils. Won his 1v1. Also a nice play where he pushed up to the forward flank as a 3rd man in for a spoil which was promising. At no stage did he offer any rebound or any tendency to go for marks, with his intent consistently to spoil. So his game is while a little stronger 1v1 to compete with guys at this level, much as it was last year with just the natural progress with regards to doing what he does.
Mason Cox still has more work to do through the ruck. But competed well against an AFL ruckman in Giles, and he'll learn from that. I liked his play forward of centre at one stage crashing a pack in a mark attempt, and on another occasion taking a pack mark, it wasn't a power mark, but he still read it well and took the mark which was enough on that occasion.
Witts up forward presented well but struggled in the wet to take marks.
Marsh did well both getting stops but also showing some new things which I liked and suggested progress. On one occasion he provided some meaning run from the back half - though no surprise he couldn't execute the kick. The other bits I liked that were new was a 1v1 grab getting front position. As well as finding Witts on a short-medium length kick. So he seems to be making progress in rounding out his game, which he needs to.
Armstrong wasn't a factor and needs to have a greater impact as a senior player.
Otherwise our other young guys showed small glimpses without playing particularly good footy either. Abbott showed good 1v1 strength on occasion. Manteit used to pretty well at times and Goodyear also showed a nice sign lowering his eyes and finding an inside 50 target from a free kick, rather than just kicking long and blasting away. But none of those first year players outside of De Goey and Moore look ready to play at this point is the take-home message.

Thanks for that, KM.
Thoughts on Maynard?

 

[Quicky]

Laurie Holden you're a legend! Look forward to the other quarters!

 

[Scodog10]

Laurie Holden you're a legend! Look forward to the other quarters!

You say that now... That being said top stuff Laurie Holden!

 

[Knightmare]

Thanks for that, KM.
Thoughts on Maynard?

Maynard was not a massive factor. Played down back. Contributed and was sufficient both ways without being a standout or anywhere near senior selection. Certainly nothing overly eye-catching on his part. Really the same story as all the other first years outside of De Goey and to a lesser extent Moore who both performed strongly, with De Goey certainly out best mid and Moore useful down back before he got hurt with the way he competed.

 

[Mame]

 

[ClaytonM]

Can you please stop screaming and whinging about posts? You're simply acting like a little girl.

Ah damn now I've stooped to your childish level... should ignore people who just want to cry and make personal attacks. When you grow up I'm happy to debate this with you, even though your own club has told you you're terribly wrong

Nice try at deflection.

 

[THATSGOLD]

My positive was Degoey. He will become one of the best players inthe afl.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Freeman is a dispppointment for a top 10 pick. Wouldn't have him Ina top 50. Can't see him ever being worthy of a top 10 pick.

 

[Babylove]

Blair did not have a dirty day, he was quite good from where I sat. Broomhead was quiet but had a great game only the week before. We don't want to be getting one week in, one week out of our best young prospects.

Oh I know, I personally wouldn't make too many changes from this week (maybe Oxley and Gault, but Oxley has played well prior to the weekend). However I made a comment about how well Karnezis and De Goey were playing, saying that they would be putting their hand up for selection in reference to how they were playing, and another poster started going on and on about who I would drop to get them in. So I picked the four guys who didn't have great stats and who I didn't really notice watching live to make them happy.

I would love to see PK & De Goey in, but have no idea who you would leave out (if anyone). We could definitely use their skill, which is still an issue for the senior team, but it's hard to leave anyone out because of effort yesterday.

 

[mattys123]

Freeman is a dispppointment for a top 10 pick. Wouldn't have him Ina top 50. Can't see him ever being worthy of a top 10 pick.

Freeman has this habit of not being able to play 4 quarters.

His first half today wasn't great, but his second half seemed better to me, especially his third quarter.

I think he's tracking along ok, will like the better conditions and faster pace of an AFL game though, the slop of a VFL game just doesn't suit some players.

JDG was great today again, faded late but he's a kid.

Patty was good when he was moved down back, 29 possessions is a very good return.

Witts was pulled late, with about 10 minutes to go, in contention for Friday.

And hey, Clinton Young got through a game, there's a plus.

 

[Kappa]

Freeman is a dispppointment for a top 10 pick. Wouldn't have him Ina top 50. Can't see him ever being worthy of a top 10 pick.

If he keeps this performance up for the next 10 VFL games I would agree with you, but I see plenty of potential in him... I think he needs a lot of game time to trust his body again and then we'll see him shine.

In the end he was one of the top possession getters so far from a bad game.

Sadly his Hamstring injury has set him back a year of development

 

[JB1975]

Freeman is a dispppointment for a top 10 pick. Wouldn't have him Ina top 50. Can't see him ever being worthy of a top 10 pick.

We've all got some negative assessments of various players, but why do you have to go so far OTT with yours? I was at the game today, and you know what he looked like to me? He looked like a kid with a massive work rate who knows where the ball is, but who is struggling for touch because he spent his entire first year of football on the sidelines with injuries. He looks fit, and he got stronger as the game went on, but he isn't giving us the run he was noted for as a junior because he doesn't have any confidence in his body at the moment. It will come. But you, you don't want to just be slightly disappointed, you hunger for utter devastation. Drama. Queen.

 

[Knightmare]

Freeman is a dispppointment for a top 10 pick. Wouldn't have him Ina top 50. Can't see him ever being worthy of a top 10 pick.

With Freeman I wouldn't get that extremely down and not being top 50 from his draft would be an over-exaggeration at this stage.

He can be a best 15-25 player from his draft and that's still fine. He can be our Luke Shuey equivalent as a strong midfielder with some running ability and good footskills. I'm not thrilled as I wasn't when we picked him, but I'm still ok with him and I feel he offers something we could use as a quick and efficient inside mid which we otherwise lack.

 

[Maggie5]

Just on the bolded is there anything in particular you're referring to?

Your comments generally fit the tone of the thread (and the overall theme has been pretty consistent throughout the thread) aside from a positive spin on Freeman's work rate which is difficult to gauge watching on TV so requires attendance at the game to spot and is a given with his high fitness levels.

It was a hard game to watch and then comment on so I'm genuinely curious as to what you've seen differently that I've missed.

Mainly re Fasolo, must put my hand up and say that I do have a bias against him but still try to mark him objectively and IMO as a senior player who has been in the system for some time, not sure where his head is. Really doesn't work hard enough, will never be capable of running through the centre.
Re Freeman's work, I was impressed with the amount of running and knows where and how to position himself.
Can def see him playing this year if an opportunity arises.

Edit: Not the best game to judge as we were clearly beaten.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

And hey, Clinton Young got through a game, there's a plus.

For who?

 

[Hardas]

I'm guessing Karnezis was played further afield to help keep his fitness developing with a view to AFL in the near future?

 

[Hardas]

Freeman is a dispppointment for a top 10 pick. Wouldn't have him Ina top 50. Can't see him ever being worthy of a top 10 pick.

No disrespect intended, TG, but are you allowing for him having missed a full year? [I'm worried too, BTW].

 

[FIGJAM]

I'm guessing Karnezis was played further afield to help keep his fitness developing with a view to AFL in the near future?

Played loose across half back mostly and did a good job generally.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

Freeman has this habit of not being able to play 4 quarters.

His first half today wasn't great, but his second half seemed better to me, especially his third quarter.

I think he's tracking along ok, will like the better conditions and faster pace of an AFL game though, the slop of a VFL game just doesn't suit some players.

JDG was great today again, faded late but he's a kid.

Patty was good when he was moved down back, 29 possessions is a very good return.

Witts was pulled late, with about 10 minutes to go, in contention for Friday.

And hey, Clinton Young got through a game, there's a plus.

After I'd recovered from the awful sinking feeling of watching Moore do his hammy live on TV it seemed to me that De Goey was benched soon after and I didn't sight him again. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed to me that he was playing a very solid contested game and maybe Bucks who was sitting with the coaching staff thought 'get him off, can't cope with the idea of him doing some injury as well'.

 

[FIGJAM]

Maynard was not a massive factor. Played down back. Contributed and was sufficient both ways without being a standout or anywhere near senior selection. Certainly nothing overly eye-catching on his part. Really the same story as all the other first years outside of De Goey and to a lesser extent Moore who both performed strongly, with De Goey certainly out best mid and Moore useful down back before he got hurt with the way he competed.

Maynard was a cut above all first year players other than Moore and JDG. Miles above!

His kicking skills were a joy to watch and his defensive pressure was effectual.

 

[ottoman]

After I'd recovered from the awful sinking feeling of watching Moore do his hammy live on TV it seemed to me that De Goey was benched soon after and I didn't sight him again. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed to me that he was playing a very solid contested game and maybe Bucks who was sitting with the coaching staff thought 'get him off, can't cope with the idea of him doing some injury as well'.

Or maybe Bucks said take him off I want him as fresh as possible for Friday night

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

Sorry if already covered in the thread but I thought today was also interesting from the point of view of observing De Goey v Laverde v Langford, 3 guys we had much discussion and debate over in the draft period. Didn't see the whole game and don't have access to their stats but it seemed like the two L's have a fair bit of class as outside players and did some nice things. De Goey seems the opposite, the inside beast who could round out his game with more run and a better tank. At this stage I'm comfortable with our selection in De Goey, thought he was really impressive to the point he went off (?). Especially playing in what I thought was a pretty ordinary side that got torched repeatedly on the rebound and just couldn't take a mark or keep the ball inside fifty to save itself. He is impressive in what he does at this stage.

 

[MagpieBat]

After I'd recovered from the awful sinking feeling of watching Moore do his hammy live on TV it seemed to me that De Goey was benched soon after and I didn't sight him again. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed to me that he was playing a very solid contested game and maybe Bucks who was sitting with the coaching staff thought 'get him off, can't cope with the idea of him doing some injury as well'.

Or he was busy drowning sorrows with TradeDraft in the bar.

 

[Pendles!]

With Freeman I wouldn't get that extremely down and not being top 50 from his draft would be an over-exaggeration at this stage.

He can be a best 15-25 player from his draft and that's still fine. He can be our Luke Shuey equivalent as a strong midfielder with some running ability and good footskills. I'm not thrilled as I wasn't when we picked him, but I'm still ok with him and I feel he offers something we could use as a quick and efficient inside mid which we otherwise lack.

With all due respect, why are you putting a ceiling on him? He's played ~5 senior games and was relatively raw in a football smarts sense when we got him.

It's just so premature imo.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

Or he was busy drowning sorrows with TradeDraft in the bar.

Wouldn't blame either of them. Our injuries have nearly driven me to drink.