Round 21: Fremantle vs Hawthorn - Patersons Stadium

[TyHawk]

Trying to downplay your chances. You can throw what you like, but 95+% of people see Hawthorn as a real threat to win the Premiership.

To say otherwise is either surly or ingenuous. So my post stands.

I explained it already. You guys win on Sat night and that's two losses to top 4 sides!! Nothing else to argue about, Hawks are cooked!

 

[Spook]

I'm not disputing that. I'd just rather Sammy get 38 with 8 inside 50s than 12 and 1 inside 50 and an indirect influence on the game via his tackles and Crowley's loss of positive impact, and based on that, I don't think it is unreasonable to say that matchup worked well for Freo.

I'm not trying to Sammy beat Crowley as in a straight out dual baselined against their own season averages as you sated that defiantly did nit happen.
But would Sammy have got "38 with 8 inside 50s" with a a tight tag on him who was not prepared to run off at all? I doubt it, and Crowley had some scalps to show what his capibilities were. So do we take the risk or try and turn control of the situation back in our favour? Clarko choose the later as we had others who could do Sammy's role due to our flexiabilty we had developed. It's a big picture look at it rather than and one on one look.

It's a big like in 2008, Ablett at his peak hot about 43 possessions in the GF; do you know how many were in the corridor forward of centre? Only 1. To have 45 and only 1 forward of center in the corridor especially the way Geelong played through the guts makes the 45 look like not a lot of impact.

A mate mentioned to me that Clarko has touched on Sammy's sacrifice in an interview so it's not just may thoughts, even though did analyse it prior to hearing Clarko talk about it a few months later.
But your argument is just as plausible. Either way we are both happy to be wrong because we won the flag

Edit: I found the quote (thanks google) in Michael Gordon's "Playing to win the inside story of Hawthorns 11th premiership"
https://assets.imgstg.com/assets/console/document/documents/PlayToWinExtractsForHawthorn.PDF page 8

"Mitchell's task was to take Crowley into the giant Ruckman's 'hit zone' at stoppages as to restrict the ability of Freos other on ballers: Nat Fyfe, Michael Barlow and David Munday to get clean possession and easy exists. He performed it with cool efficiency, laying almost as many tackles as he won kicks and having a positive impact on some 30 contests with out actually winning the ball."

Also,with out sounding smug I had never seen that quote before I commented on here.

 

[Spook]

If only we have some way of knowing. Oh wait:

I can't beleive you haven't deleted this post caitsith01! You put up a vid trying to show Johnson being tough and it clearly shows him taking his eyes of the ball and pulling out of going for it...... Lol
I'm interested for other to have a look and tell me what you think? About 6sec mark

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Winning the game that put them 4 points and percentage in top 4? You're so funny

No, doesn't matter. Only prelims and grand finals matter. Ask Hawks supporters.

 

[mike91]

No, doesn't matter. Only prelims and grand finals matter. Ask Hawks supporters.

lol.jpeg

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

With Gunston looking completely out of sorts and no Roughie i thought Hawthorn battled well but Freo were much harder and seem to want it more i know its a cliche word but the energy of Hawthorn was not there today.

Mundy, Fyfe roving Sandilands taps is probably the most dangerous combination in the league they absolutely dominated in that area.

Exactly how I saw it. Also what I feared re Gunston/Rough and avenues to goal..

 

[freoextra]

What about Ibbotson ?

Or our secret weapon Sylvia!!!

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Good job Coach Lyon!

It was. I think Clarko and Lyon are the two best coaches in the comp. By a bit.

This is third meeting in a row between these two in which the coaches box has been pivotal. Today Lyon flipped the script and engaged Hawthorn in a shootout - which you would think would play into their hands, but he knew Freo's fwd line on paper was much more dangerous today. Even without balls. Savvy to punt on Gunston and Hale being a bit scratchy.

Like the gf last year when Clarko flipped it and beat Freo at their 'game'.

The rd 3 game was less intriguing in that respect but still fascinating (and far more enjoyable!)

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

No, doesn't matter. Only prelims and grand finals matter. Ask Hawks supporters.

We're only two weeks away from the 2014 finals. Time to move on and put last year's prelim behind you.

 

[feds2000]

I can't beleive you haven't deleted this post caitsith01! You put up a vid trying to show Johnson being tough and it clearly shows him taking his eyes of the ball and pulling out of going for it...... Lol
I'm interested for other to have a look and tell me what you think? About 6sec mark

you see butter when you believe its butter, you have the power, god bless you

 

[Freomaniac]

Bad kicking is bad football. Same amount of chances but Freo just converted.

Ironic you mentioned that. You could of said the exact same thing about the 2013 grand final.

 

[Spook]

Or our secret weapon Sylvia!!!

Ah, we've got schoenmakers to cover him.... Nil all draw I recon

 

[SA HAWK]

Ironic you mentioned that. You could of said the exact same thing about the 2013 grand final.

And the 2008,2009 & 2012 grand finals.

 

[wcesam]

Nice backhander m8

May as well not rock up if we have to play them in Melbourne in the finals I guess, just like if we were to face Geelong at Simmons somehow it just wouldn't be worth the fuel tickets eh.

I admit I'm not jumping on the bandwagon like thousands did last year mate, but I'm not saying you shouldn't show up or that you are no chance. If you do win the flag this year you will have lifted a few notches from your current form, that's all I'm saying.

 

[wcesam]

And you base this on what exactly? They didn't kill us when we played them at the MCG last time, and our boys were clearly overawed by the grand final experience and had stage fright.

No one with any intelligence could say that had today's game been played in Melbourne that Hawthorn would have killed Freo.

So I express my opinion and you make it personal by saying I have no intelligence? Ease up mate

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

I admit I'm not jumping on the bandwagon like thousands did last year mate, but I'm not saying you shouldn't show up or that you are no chance. If you do win the flag this year you will have lifted a few notches from your current form, that's all I'm saying.

Freo? Current form (ie today!) is pretty darn impressive.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Ironic you mentioned that. You could of said the exact same thing about the 2013 grand final.

Bad kicking IS bad footy. It's not an excuse for losing, it's a reason for losing. We missed just as many gettable shots as Freo in the GF, for some reason it's only Freo's misses that are highlighted.

 

[MadMac]

The amount of Geelong fans ITT is disturbing

 

[Cynic]

Was scary how well the Sandilands - Mundy/Fyfe/Barlow centre clearances worked. Hawthorn will need to counter that if/when we next meet if we want a different result.

 

[romeoh]

The amount of Geelong fans ITT is disturbing

Haha well if its any consolation is because its about the Hawks, not Freo!

 

[Freoforever86]

Thoroughly enjoyed that game. 2nd qtr shootout was very entertaining! Both teams missing a few key players & a very even contest. Hard not to admire hawthorn, barely had their best 22 in all year & are still the team to beat IMO.
Hopefully Fyfe gets nothing, free kick was paid, move on.

 

[Connoisseur]

The amount of Geelong fans ITT is disturbing

A hawthorn loss improved our chances of staying in Victoria for the first week of finals so it figures that it held some interest for Geelong supporters.

 

[kingswood71]

Massive 2nd half from Freo

Massively undermanned Hawthorn side just couldnt do it

Good to see Freo playing attacking

Ballatyne is rubbish, Walters showed it today

Ha ha...Ballaz is rubbish...Yep. 42 goals from 17 games. Our leading goal scorer. Ironically only 7 goals behind your mobs key forward...And Ballaz has a better conversion average. Yep, so so rubbish...I am surprised he even gets a game !!

 

[hk89]

I'm not trying to Sammy beat Crowley as in a straight out dual baselined against their own season averages as you sated that defiantly did nit happen.
But would Sammy have got "38 with 8 inside 50s" with a a tight tag on him who was not prepared to run off at all? I doubt it, and Crowley had some scalps to show what his capibilities were. So do we take the risk or try and turn control of the situation back in our favour? Clarko choose the later as we had others who could do Sammy's role due to our flexiabilty we had developed. It's a big picture look at it rather than and one on one look.

Yes, I'm sure Clarko was operating on the assumption that Crowley was going to go to Mitchell, and that he had some strategy in place to get the most out of Mitchell given how good Crowley was at reducing his direct opponent's possessions over that season. However I still think a lot of of the quotes around about Mitchell's 'sacrifice' was after the fact justification for Sammy getting beaten head to head. I have no doubt you'd see as many quotes praising Crowley from the Freo side if they'd got up and won, but winners get to write the history books, so it is 'Sammy's sacrifice' rather than 'Crowley's sacrifice' that gets the focus. Despite Sam being able to influence the game despite Crowley restricting him to 12, I think we win by more if Crowley doesn't play.

Sammy is still our best clearance player, and while in recent times he's been used a bit more selectively there, in the last 2 years whenever we've been in trouble in terms of losing momentum in games, Clarko has put Mitchell at the clearances, and that has more often than not been enough to turn the game back in our favour. When that clearance ability is nullified he is just a less damaging player overall IMO, and that is what Crowley achieved, even if Sam had indirect impact on clearances, its not the same. If another Hawthorn player has to actually effect the clearance while Sammy is blanketed/restricted to tackles only , that is one less player spreading to receive Sam's clearance work.

I booed and hissed every time Crowley impeded Sammy off the ball (the prevalence of this was only obvious if you were at the ground), but I think it does Crowley an unfair disservice (and looks like revisionism) to claim the net effect of him restricting Mitchell to 12 possessions was a plus for Hawthorn. Your analysis of what happens at contests Mitchell actually got to ignores how many he didn't get to because Crowley simply didn't let him (legally or otherwise).

 

[hutchy31]

Good summation but I think the Hawks are done for the year. Not because we lost this game but those petrol tickets are starting to run on empty IMO. Still a very good effort but the other 3 sides in the top 4 are playing better football.

This is the danger - the hawks might be the best team in the league when on form, but how much have they spent this year just getting to the top 4 and how much is left for September? I'm hoping they do it purely from a betting perspective, but a hard game this weekend after a 6-day break and coming back from Perth won't help.

Maybe we'll do you a favour though and turn the Swans over