Round 3: Collingwood Vs St Kilda MCG

[didaksrightfoot]

Riewoldt
Joey
Hickey
Ray
Ross
Webster

All unaivalable. I don't know where Collingwood supporters are getting the they were younger from given our starting forward line had something like 3 first year players and Membury in his 3rd game Billings in his 17th.

They showed the two 22's during the game, and from memory the spread was very similar - except for our top 3 guys having more experience.
Both had half a squad under 40 games, and both had a few guys under 10 games.

Both teams are in a rebuild phase, and will be expecting to move back up the ladder in the next couple of years... you guys have been rebuilding for longer. Hopefully we are able to do it on the run without bottoming out too much.

 

[Adam H]

Riewoldt may individually be a bigger out, but he only hurts so much because of how much top end talent you guys have lost over the last few years, without really having the depth guys step in. We have also lost plenty of guys since 2010, but at least our depth has been adequate, if not great.

We've got 5 guys on the sidelines who would be amongst our first picked if available: Sidey, Ried, Greenwood, Taylor and Caff, plus Witts who was our better ruckman last year.
Plus Pendles was visibly hampered by his ankle last night, so he wasn't playing at 100%. (In fact, Bucks' presser basically suggested Pendles could've been only "75%" fit... stating that some guys you don't trust playing at 90%, but some guys, like Pendles, you can play at 75% and know they can adjust and handle it)

The thing is, before this game many suggested you could beat us:
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/can-the-saints-beat-coll-fri-night.1093618/
And I agree it was a danger game for us... if we want to stay around the 8-12 range, then this is the type of game we should be winning comfortably - and we did just that.
You can't turn around and start making excuses for your loss.

Riewoldt is on our list and remains our key at CHF I don't get your point. Riewoldt makes Bruce Membury and co so more dangerous. It also means our backs no where to kick it on the way out.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Riewoldt is on our list and remains our key at CHF I don't get your point. Riewoldt makes Bruce Membury and co so more dangerous. It also means our backs no where to kick it on the way out.

FFS, two can play that game:

Sidebottom is one of our best players, and Adams and Greenwood are two quality inside mids... and provide the in-and-under work that some of our other mids aren't the best at. Put those three into our midfield, and/or a healthy Caff, who has been one of the top taggers when healthy, and you can then move other guys back to their usual positions. Williams, Oxley, Blair, Langdon, Varcoe, Seedsman all spent a plenty of time on the ball last night - they generally did well, but its not the role that they are currently in this team for, and would probably not put in that sort of performance against a top team.

Witts was our best ruckman last year. Grundy has been great this year, but is still a step behind with his endurance (which is improving). Grundy still had to be benched for 5-10mins a quarter, and in those times, Longer was dominating White in the middle. Move Witts into the side for Gault, and you don't lose much in the forward line, but suddenly Longer would've had a much harder time against 2 fresher ruckman.

Reid when healthy was an AA CHB. Our backline is very young, and though I am optimistic about its progress, we at times leave open free attackers and give up runs of easy goals, and have trouble getting the ball cleanly out of the backline - both of those occured yesterday. Reid is one guy who, when healthy, immediately fixes both of those problems.
---

Look, I'm not saying Roo isn't a big out, or isn't more important than any of those players individually. But you can't keep making excuses every time your team loses.

 

[Adam H]

FFS, two can play that game:

Sidebottom is one of our best players, and Adams and Greenwood are two quality inside mids... and provide the in-and-under work that some of our other mids aren't the best at. Put those three into our midfield, and/or a healthy Caff, who has been one of the top taggers when healthy, and you can then move other guys back to their usual positions. Williams, Oxley, Blair, Langdon, Varcoe, Seedsman all spent a plenty of time on the ball last night - they generally did well, but its not the role that they are currently in this team for, and would probably not put in that sort of performance against a top team.

Witts was our best ruckman last year. Grundy has been great this year, but is still a step behind with his endurance (which is improving). Grundy still had to be benched for 5-10mins a quarter, and in those times, Longer was dominating White in the middle. Move Witts into the side for Gault, and you don't lose much in the forward line, but suddenly Longer would've had a much harder time against 2 fresher ruckman.

Reid when healthy was an AA CHB. Our backline is very young, and though I am optimistic about its progress, we at times leave open free attackers and give up runs of easy goals, and have trouble getting the ball cleanly out of the backline - both of those occured yesterday. Reid is one guy who, when healthy, immediately fixes both of those problems.
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Look, I'm not saying Roo isn't a big out, or isn't more important than either of those players individually. But you can't keep making excuses every time your team loses.

I'm not making excuse I'm pointing out that pointing to age and saying it's even is wrong. Your gun senior players played while our key and what our structure is based around didn't. If Greenwood Sidebottom and Moore played instead of Cloke Pendlbury and Swan how'd you think you'd go?

 

[Collingwoodity]

Er...2 outta 2? Top of the table? Including a slapping of your boys last week.

Ok. So the same as us.


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[Stax on the mill]

I'm not making excuse I'm pointing out that pointing to age and saying it's even is wrong. Your gun senior players played while our key and what our structure is based around didn't. If Greenwood Sidebottom and Moore played instead of Cloke Pendlbury and Swan how'd you think you'd go?

Win by about 8 goals. There's always excuses with you. Be it the umpires, injuries, travelling back from Brisbane, etc, etc. Just man up,and admit you were beaten fair and square by a better team, no ifs or buts.

Your trouble is that you are so determined to be contrary, deflect and and concede absolutely nothing, that no-one takes you seriously.

 

[Adam H]

Win by about 8 goals. There's always excuses with you. Be it the umpires, injuries, travelling back from Brisbane, etc, etc. Just man up,and admit you were beaten fair and square by a better team, no ifs or buts.

Your trouble is that you are so determined to be contrary, deflect and and concede absolutely nothing, that no-one takes you seriously.

We were beaten by a better side who's saying otherwise? Things went against us and as a young side you can't have that happen and win.

 

[Kram]

Watching the replay after the first quarter St Kilda's effort was pathetic, that spoon is definitely there's for the taking.

 

[lenny20]

I'm not making excuse I'm pointing out that pointing to age and saying it's even is wrong. Your gun senior players played while our key and what our structure is based around didn't. If Greenwood Sidebottom and Moore played instead of Cloke Pendlbury and Swan how'd you think you'd go?

Why am I biting, why am I biting... ah * it....

Who exactly are St Kilda's Cloke/Pendlebury/Swan equivalents that were out last night?

Cloke -> Riewoldt. Okay, pay that.
Pendlebury -> Montagna. Bit of a stretch there.
Swan -> ...Farren Ray? God I hope not.

The fact is you've got two significant outs in Riewoldt and Joey. I'll add to that they're ageing outs who the Saints won't be able to rely on much longer. Meanwhile most every other team is dealing with significant injuries and getting on with the job. Collingwood themselves playing without Ben Reid and Steele Sidebottom. Reid's AA and Sidebottom was 2nd in our B&F last year. That's not to mention our two best inside mids in Greenwood and Adams. Nor our best ruckman (although Grundy is making arguments to the contrary) in Witts. If you want to throw promising youngsters like Webster into the fray then I'll throw back our two top ten picks from the 2013 draft as guys who have been cruelled with injury thus far and remain unavailable.

Hawthorn went in without arguably their two most important players in Mitchell and Gibson against the Dons, Brisbane are playing without their best two in Hanley and Rocky, Carlton missing top 5 draft picks Kruezer and Thomas, the Cats don't have Bartel or Mackie, the Suns are without Ablett, Omeara and Dixon to name a few, the quality youth on GWS' injury list is incredible - loaded with first rounders, the Demons have two #2 draft picks sitting on the LTI as well as a super youngster in Viney, North just lost Nicky Dal and have a bunch of best 22 like Grima unavailable, Lids has hardly got on the park for Richmond, West Coast's injury list is the league's worst, and the Bullies lost their best player before the season started.

Every team has injuries. It's frustrating. But to view them in isolation as the primary cause of a 74 point loss is borderline delusional.

 

[joop]

Watching the replay after the first quarter St Kilda's effort was pathetic, that spoon is definitely there's for the taking.

We are clearly not the worst side going around at the moment, you have a short memory.

 

[Plugger35]

Watching the replay after the first quarter St Kilda's effort was pathetic, that spoon is definitely there's for the taking.

We're just saving ourselves for our annual win over Freo.

 

[MagpieJoel]

To anyone with a unbiased view will say the contest was even.

No they wouldn't.

 

[Kram]

We're just saving ourselves for our annual win over Freo.

With our A side out there without the flu being run through it be prepared for the mother of all humiliations this season.

 

[Kram]

We are clearly not the worst side going around at the moment, you have a short memory.

Your only hope to avoid it is Carlton going all out rolling out the tanks.

 

[Runnin Blue]

Ok. So the same as us.


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Hopefully not after today #backontop

 

[Buckleys Jocks]

How has Buckley escaped media criticism. Half a dozen premiership players doing well elsewhere and he's built this s**t list...

What like Dawes and Wellingham absolutely killing it? The only player we've really missed is Shaw.

This is a horrible call, Bucks has copped plenty of criticism and in the case of all except Dawes these players were either moved on because of off field issues or because they requested a trade home. In all cases we were compensated excellently and have improved the long term future of the list as a result.

This "s**t list" is in the process of a rebuild and has plenty of talented youngsters that will push on over the coming years, we've drafted excellently over the last few years and will bounce back soon enough.

 

[wowlace]

I opened the thread to read some Adam H whinge posts. Leaving distinctly assuaged.

 

[Stax on the mill]

Apart from Sandilands you did have your A side out there last year and I can't remember the flu excuse either.

New strain called retrospective flu.

 

[Prestigerrycomo]

Was a great team effort. Praise in particular must be given to Grundy for the dominant performance in the ruck

 

[Adam H]

Was a great team effort. Praise in particular must be given to Grundy for the dominant performance in the ruck

If only it was a dominant performance.

 

[Prestigerrycomo]

There must be particular concern in the St Kilda team, being spanked by a much more inexperienced Collingwood

 

[ManOfClay]

Aside from the fact grundy had his way with him, longer looks reasonable. Grundy clearly took the points but at least longer won some hitouts.

Just needed to actually do something other than ruck

 

[Adam H]

Aside from the fact grundy had his way with him, longer looks reasonable. Grundy clearly took the points but at least longer won some hitouts.

Just needed to actually do something other than ruck

Longer 32 hit outs 9 stats two marks. The mature age Minson 22 hit outs 16 touches 3 marks.