Autopsy Round 4: Richmond V Melbourne @ MCG - Friday 7:50pm, 24/04/15

[I Rock]

Oh the way we lost was bad.... but we didn't lose to a dud team. We lost to a young talented team having a dip. All I want to see us do is have a dip.... we have the talent (well a fair bit of talent) but we don't have or haven't showed the application....

That's the point and it's Hardwick's responsibility to have the team achieve it. The fact he can't 6 seasons in, should tell you all you need to know.

 

[Squibbs]

But the dogs are a bottom team.

They might be young and inexperienced but it goes to show how much difference it makes to a team when they go in and put 100% effort in. We should be taking a leaf out of their book really.

 

[theflea]

How many years were they pus for?

In 2012 they came 14th with 22 points, we had 34 points
2011 they were 2nd last with 12 points,
2010 missed the finals by a game,
2009 missed by a game and a half
2008 they were crap
2007 they played in a Grand Final (sort of)

So they were better than us, since we haven't played finals since 2001 and our best crack was missing by half a game in 2008.

A proportion of their list had tasted success as opposed to absolutely none of ours (Westhoff, Boak, Cornes, Cassisi, Burgoyne, Chaplin etc through that time). They had people at the club (not just players) who had played finals or being involved in successful administration. We didn't and with the exception of our coach and an assistant or 2 plus Chaplin, we still don't. We have gained confidence but ultimately we have failed in several big tests (finals, games to get into finals, although we have won some, we have probably lost more than we have won) so perhaps the early little bits of confidence that was instilled in players has started to be eroded. Port's confidence at half time against Hawthorn would have been much higher than it is right now....

Also, it is instil confidence, not install.... I know it's a minor difference but since we are using English, let's use it the way it was intended.

And during that time they did accumulate good draft picks and then players. The problem with port during that time was method, not talent. It could be said we are similar, but their best 22 is more mature I think(in games). Add in a superior fitness guru with extensive international experience plus a new voice and coach with a good experience didn't surprise me port came good.

 

[theflea]

They might be young and inexperienced but it goes to show how much difference it makes to a team when they go in and put 100% effort in. We should be taking a leaf out of their book really.

haha just a little quip about losing to a bottom 2 or 4 team to some.

 

[DrMike]

We had two highlights in "The 10"
I think that means we won

 

[tigs2010]

We had two highlights in "The 10"
I think that means we won

Arnot and Griff?

 

[Tiger Claw]

Maybe we could draft or trade in an entire forward line.... or at least some crumbing forwards who could get to the feet of our mindless bombs into the forward line....

I really, really, really would love a crumber.

 

[GN272]

and after round 4 we are ......... 9th

 

[I Rock]

and after round 4 we are ......... 9th

I here I was complaining about team consistency........

 

[gaelictiogar]

and after round 4 we are ......... 9th

We have played arguably the 4 weakest teams in the competition and we are 9th.

Great isn't it?

 

[Tiger71]

Any loss is bad when we play the way we did against the Doggies & the Demons. If we put up those performances against any other team we will lose these games as well. It really is unacceptable to not put in 100% in every game, for these so called professional athletes.

I can accept a loss if you can see every player has given their all. Most of our issues seem to be above the shoulders, as our current group of players are quite capable of playing very good football. Unfortunately we are playing the same way we played last year when we were getting beaten up by lesser teams. The current playing list continues to fold the moment any real pressure is applied & we try & finesse our kicks when we don't have enough skilled players to carry this out. We need to go back to going direct into the forward line & stop flirting with over using the ball. The other thing that really cheeses me off, is the fact we don't leave someone in the forward 50 at all times. The amount of time we go quickly from the back half, only to find they need to stop on the HFF & wait for players to work into our forward 50. We could have either Jack, Griff, TV or someone like Dusty . It doesn't need to be predictable as long as the players know somebody stays forward at all times.

Good post and that is why Hardwick has lost me.

He has made some serious errors this year that he should not be making 6 years in. In both the Melbourne and Dogs game, he went in with the mentality to match both of those sides by countering there game plan in stead of sticking to our strengths and getting them to beat us on our terms. Its inexcusable and no wonder the playing group looks lost. Its like if you made a product a certain way, trained your staff in how to make that product and your boss walks in and says ok all, we are changing it to match the competition....

IMO I am even more convinced we need a fresh change and a new voice.

 

[Tiger Claw]

Good post and that is why Hardwick has lost me.

He has made some serious errors this year that he should not be making 6 years in. In both the Melbourne and Dogs game, he went in with the to match both of those sides by countering there game plan in stead of sticking to our strengths and getting them to beat us on our terms. Its inexcusable and no wonder the playing group looks lost. Its like if you made a product a certain way, trained your staff in how to make that product and your boss walks in and says ok all, we are changing it to match the competition....

IMO I am even more convinced we need a fresh change and a new voice.

You think we were countering their game plan? I saw it as the opposite and actually thought we should have spent more time making sure we negated them instead of charging on and spending before we had it.

 

[DrMike]

Arnot and Griff?

Thought Edwards goal was pretty good myself

 

[DemonLord]

Just wanted to offer my sympathies for your debutant doing his ACL (name escapes me). As much as I enjoyed the win I always hate it when a serious injury occurs - my team or not. Looked very promising up until that point. Much like Petracca I hope he comes back as quickly as possible without further complications.

DL.

 

[DivideandConca]

What an insipid performance, never have I gone to a game as full of optimism and expecting a win as I was on Friday, only to be let down and utterly embarrassed by our players and our supporters infront of the nations eyes. After forking out money for tickets for my family with what I thought was going to be a fun night out at the footy, I was left standing in the rain with my head in my hands and struggled to watch the last 10 minutes, not even a few froffies dulled my pain. Need to get a few things off my chest.

1. Steven Morris was a shell of a footballer on Friday night, I would honestly rather we play one man short next week instead of picking that fairy on the performance he gave us.
2. Lloyd can not remain in our side after what he has churned out the last two weeks, I would let him rot in the ressies for a few weeks until he figures out how to play the game (judging from Friday night, that may be a long long time). Have never seen a performance that bad in my entire time of supporting this great club, wouldn't be surprised if he had money against us on the weekend he was that bad.
3. It is evident that this 90% of the players that laced up on the weekend didn't want to put their heads over the ball...They do not bleed the yellow and black like the rest of us.....The late great Jack Dyer would have been mortified.

It is clear that this list cant even make an impact upon finals (piss poor efforts in 13/14), so what is the point of even being around there, should just blood the kids and aim for a bottom half finish and then turn over the list at the end of season. Unfortunately we need to start the rebuild again, now that sides like the Bulldogs and the Dees (arguably also the Saints) are well past us.

 

[tigerninja]

What an insipid performance, never have I gone to a game as full of optimism and expecting a win as I was on Friday, only to be let down and utterly embarrassed by our players and our supporters infront of the nations eyes. After forking out money for tickets for my family with what I thought was going to be a fun night out at the footy, I was left standing in the rain with my head in my hands and struggled to watch the last 10 minutes, not even a few froffies dulled my pain. Need to get a few things off my chest.

1. Steven Morris was a shell of a footballer on Friday night, I would honestly rather we play one man short next week instead of picking that fairy on the performance he gave us.
2. Lloyd can not remain in our side after what he has churned out the last two weeks, I would let him rot in the ressies for a few weeks until he figures out how to play the game (judging from Friday night, that may be a long long time). Have never seen a performance that bad in my entire time of supporting this great club, wouldn't be surprised if he had money against us on the weekend he was that bad.
3. It is evident that this 90% of the players that laced up on the weekend didn't want to put their heads over the ball...They do not bleed the yellow and black like the rest of us.....The late great Jack Dyer would have been mortified.

It is clear that this list cant even make an impact upon finals (piss poor efforts in 13/14), so what is the point of even being around there, should just blood the kids and aim for a bottom half finish and then turn over the list at the end of season. Unfortunately we need to start the rebuild again, now that sides like the Bulldogs and the Dees (arguably also the Saints) are well past us.

What did the supporters do?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

What did the supporters do?

Drank mid strength beer

 

[DivideandConca]

What did the supporters do?

From the area I was in, I could hear boos when certain Tigers players would get possession of the ball.....Although in Morris' case, there wasn't many times to boo.

 

[tigerninja]

From the area I was in, I could hear boos when certain Tigers players would get possession of the ball.....Although in Morris' case, there wasn't many times to boo.

Melbourne well and truly Melbourned us!

 

[partycorolla]

And yet into his 6th season, Hardwick has at his helm a team bereft of all confidence it would seem. I doubt Hardwick could inspire an incontinent man to piss.

Well, I don't need too much inspiration to piss, nor do I suffer from incontinence but I love the saying, never heard it before! I don't think the players need to be 'inspired' by a coach. If they do, well they are the wrong players. However, they do need to heed coaches instructions and basic fundamentals..... since they aren't doing it consistently at the moment, they need to be dropped but this is something DH seems reticent to do throughout his time at RFC, preferring to 'teach and nurture' them.... This may work well with kids but now that tactic is useless and actually counter-productive.... Needs to be some statements made (not verbal, but dropping of under-performing 'names') and actions taken.... Might be too late for him as it is.

 

[partycorolla]

We have the worst small forwards in the league and I swear nothing has been done about it. Edwards is the only decent one and he's also one of our best mids. We need another Edwards*

*Thing no one said pre-2014

I actually think we need a genuine crumbing forward. Titch is a hybrid, we need a not dickhead version of Garlett, Ballantyne etc... 2 would be good. We've tried to band-aid it with the Lloyd and Gordon, defensive forwards like King and tried Morris but it's just wall-papering over the cracks... Andy Collins used to crumb quite well....

 

[partycorolla]

and after round 4 we are ......... 9th

Does that mean we will get let into the finals when some other team gets booted out for something and we will knock off the team we play in the EF?

 

[I Rock]

Well, I don't need too much inspiration to piss, nor do I suffer from incontinence but I love the saying, never heard it before! I don't think the players need to be 'inspired' by a coach. If they do, well they are the wrong players. However, they do need to heed coaches instructions and basic fundamentals..... since they aren't doing it consistently at the moment, they need to be dropped but this is something DH seems reticent to do throughout his time at RFC, preferring to 'teach and nurture' them.... This may work well with kids but now that tactic is useless and actually counter-productive.... Needs to be some statements made (not verbal, but dropping of under-performing 'names') and actions taken.... Might be too late for him as it is.

Unless someone else makes claim to it before the registration date of last night, you can jot it down as another I Rock original.

As for Coaches no inspiration, we must have played a different kind of football. Personal experience says you are wrong. For years I was a hack who didn't care, change of coach with a change of approach with the players and I quickly became a hack who thought he could run through walls on the football field. After one season with the new coach I went from a player only there to socialise with my mates. To a club best and fairest winner and invited to play in a state league.

I know afl players are on a different level and should be professional, but a good coach can inspire the best out of anyone. And further to this get the best out of the playing list to be a team. A decent coach does not have a team playing the same poo brand of football making the same mistakes over a half a decade in.

 

[partycorolla]

Unless someone else makes claim to it before the registration date of last night, you can jot it down as another I Rock original.

As for Coaches no inspiration, we must have played a different kind of football. Personal experience says you are wrong. For years I was a hack who didn't care, change of coach with a change of approach with the players and I quickly became a hack who thought he could run through walls on the football field. After one season with the new coach I went from a player only there to socialise with my mates. To a club best and fairest winner and invited to play in a state league.

I know afl players are on a different level and should be professional, but a good coach can inspire the best out of anyone. And further to this get the best out of the playing list to be a team. A decent coach does not have a team playing the same poo brand of football making the same mistakes over a half a decade in.

This is my point. I agree with hack footballers lifting for coaches etc etc. When I work, I don't work harder for a particular boss. I work hard for myself, to be the best I can be at what I do.... I would expect nothing else from AFL players.

I think the players respect DH, but I'm not sure they are scared of letting him down, scared of what happens if they fail to meet a basic standard.... I think players still need to have a bit of fear for their place in the team, for their career.... Not too much but enough. Ours don't always have it, or at least some of them don't. Whenever we trade someone in, they do well in their first season while they are trying to make an impression.... and then??? Houli has improved from what he was at Essendon, so has Maric... arguably Grigg (but not by much and he has now stagnated since 2012) while Petterd, Chaplin and others haven't discernibly improved.....

 

[I Rock]

This is my point. I agree with hack footballers lifting for coaches etc etc. When I work, I don't work harder for a particular boss. I work hard for myself, to be the best I can be at what I do.... I would expect nothing else from AFL players.

I think the players respect DH, but I'm not sure they are scared of letting him down, scared of what happens if they fail to meet a basic standard.... I think players still need to have a bit of fear for their place in the team, for their career.... Not too much but enough. Ours don't always have it, or at least some of them don't. Whenever we trade someone in, they do well in their first season while they are trying to make an impression.... and then??? Houli has improved from what he was at Essendon, so has Maric... arguably Grigg (but not by much and he has now stagnated since 2012) while Petterd, Chaplin and others haven't discernibly improved.....

I can't agree. It's been shown time and time again at the top level one coach can get more out of the players than others. Both as individuals and as a team. Again, either Hardwick can't or isn't on many fronts. Otherwise we wouldn't be having these types of conversations.