AFL Autopsy Round 5 - St Kilda

[ManWithNoName]

He played with Riewoldt, Gwilt, Montagna etc etc - how can he possibly be totally impartial.

Easily. He's a professional. And in the moment all you'd see is the contact, you wouldn't have time to process bias or anything of the like.

Suggestions that he'd favour St Kilda because of his playing history are laughable.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Pretty sure Bannister is now retired from umpiring to look after his brother.

He did retire but I'm pretty sure he's back umpiring now his brother is home and has everything set up.

 

[eth-dog]

Pretty sure Bannister is now retired from umpiring to look after his brother.

He's come back

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

If this was Hawthorn the heat excuse would be no problems from them.

 

[Loonerty]

Oh has he? Good on him.

 

[Doss]

He played with Riewoldt, Gwilt, Montagna etc etc - how can he possibly be totally impartial.

It's probably something that AFL will need to look at, especially if more and more players go down the umpiring path.

Kind of mirrors the situation with neutral umpires in Test cricket, I suppose.

 

[DonsRule]

It's probably something that AFL will need to look at, especially if more and more players go down the umpiring path.

Kind of mirrors the situation with neutral umpires in Test cricket, I suppose.

Yep, agree. I thought the umpring was poor, but not what cost us.

But, I think it is a case as you say, just needing to remove the risk, I don't think any would purposely give favorable decisions but pressure situations etc, and spur of the moment situations, and even as some on the Saints board suggest a little too, I think it could also be too conscious of not trying to be favorable to the saints.

 

[rines]

Yep, agree. I thought the umpring was poor, but not what cost us.

But, I think it is a case as you say, just needing to remove the risk, I don't think any would purposely give favorable decisions but pressure situations etc, and spur of the moment situations, and even as some on the Saints board suggest a little too, I think it could also be too conscious of not trying to be favorable to the saints.

It just shouldn't be allowed. They talk about governance and yet this crap passes? And FWIW I don't think Bannister should do EFC or Carlton games either.. and I've said that.

Whether or not Fisher means too.. he will have a natural bias in his head already. This is basic psychology and unavoidable no matter HOW professional he tries to be.

Look at his decisions closely.. almost all favoured Saints.. and that 50 was plain laughable..

If the game wants to talk integrity.. they need to clean this up and make sure it never happens again.

 

[yaco55]

Four? His entire first 3 qtrs were terrible. He finally hit two targets in a row (one short kick, one 5 meter handball) and I was tempted to give him a standing O. Like the majority of the team, he was s**t for 90% of the game. Passing a floating handball/kick to a guy with 2 opposition players around him while being flat footed might not show up as a negative in disposal efficiency % but it is simply not good enough at AFL level

Do you realise the AFL DE average is around 70%. Take your view dropping Hooker with 82% means that we would be playing 8 a side.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Maybe he's just a s**t umpire, maybe he subconsciously favoured St Kilda. Who knows?

Why create the situation in the first place?

 

[yaco55]

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. For years there has been a push to get ex AFL players into coaching, and now we don't watch them to umpire certain games. What happens if Fisher's parents of an AFL Club, and his best mate and his partner - Do we ban Fisher from umpiring these games.

 

[yaco55]

We've had two in our history and one was the second best kid in the country with zero injury history.

The fact is that Gumbleton is barely an AFL standard footy player. Injuries didn't help but at no stage did he look a VERY GOOD AFL player.

 

[yaco55]

If it was about managing his load in anticipation of ANZAC Day, then they got it very wrong.

Nah, I don't believe that's it. If it was about that, surely you'd keep him on the bench for half the quarter and play him in the centre for the other half of it.

We weren't in a position to be hiding him at full forward.

I will have to disagree. StKilda owned the ball in the second quarter and if Watson rested forward in this quarter your argument would have more validity. We had more than enough ball in the third quarter for Watson to have an impact in the third quarter. I believe he was moved forward because of a dysfunctional forward line which had a structural weakness and possibly to lighten his load for Anzac Day.

 

[Doss]

From my observations, we could barely get our hands on the ball at centre clearances in the third quarter. I could be wrong. Either way, it was the third quarter when the game began to really slip away from us (I'd lost much hope by 3/4 time), and our captain and best player resting at full forward just seemed odd to me.

 

[yaco55]

Smokin's post beautifully summed up our game plan - Something that I noted after our NAB Cup game against Richmond - We move the ball too SLOWLY. We become too predictable which allows teams to SLOW DOWN one of the chains of kicks, and therefore have time to flood our forward line. I previously posted that our game plan is like Hawthorn's but there is one significant DIFFERENCE - It's rare for the Hawks to have their FLOW stopped between the the two fifty metre arcs. I expect the coaches will tweak the game plan to allow for more running from behind, more use of hands and more switching of the play into the corridor.

The biggest disappointment for me was our defensive turnovers - I can accept if the Saints had manic pressure in our back half forcing wild kicks, but each of the major DEFENSIVE turnovers were after defenders had taken marks. We need to be on our mettle this week because Collingwood will attack the ball carrier.

 

[yaco55]

Conflict of interest.

I'm not (and I daresay Ben isn't) saying he's the reason we lost, far from it. But you gotta admit that's a bit dodgy and if the situation was reversed people would probably feel the same way.

We are sounding like a pack of whingers ! I've never heard a complaint about Bannister or Fisher or Fraser when we WIN.

 

[yaco55]

From my observations, we could barely get our hands on the ball at centre clearances in the third quarter. I could be wrong. Either way, it was the third quarter when the game began to really slip away from us (I'd lost much hope by 3/4 time), and our captain and best player resting at full forward just seemed odd to me.

It was the second quarter when the game slipped away. StKilda had 65% possession in the second quarter.

 

[Doss]

It was the second quarter when the game slipped away. StKilda had 65% possession in the second quarter.

Not on the scoreboard, however. Despite their domination statistically, they only got level at half time because of two dreadful blunders very late by Fletcher and Hibberd.

 

[yaco55]

Not on the scoreboard, however. Despite their domination statistically, they only got level at half time because of two dreadful blunders very late by Fletcher and Hibberd.

Yes - But that domination of possession in the second quarter gave the Saint's a sniff. Your argument about Watson would carry more weight if he spent the second quarter up forward.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

One thing I don't buy is the Saints pressure, yes it was good, but no more than a standard top 8 clash. When the game slipped away, the shackles came off and we took them on, our ball movement became very fluid.

 

[yodellinhank]

Just wondering what essendon supporters thought of Bombers press conference about lack of recovery and preparation post match? If what he was saying had any merit to it, I don't understand why he wouldn't say anything during the week to the players, rather than publicly bring it up post game. Also if it is true, do you think it had a big impact on the game?? **no offence is intended in this post nor is it meant to be implying bomber is a bad coach** Chin up guys, it could be worse, you could support Carlton

He might've wanted to say something but his head was in a bucket and he was running for the toilet at the time

In all seriousness I'm sick of hearing the excuses.

I mean seriously who the * gets gastro in a first world country? Wash your hands you filthy animals.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

I don't think Fischer was biased. But I did wonder why he was put in that position in the first place.

There are 9 games a week. It really would not be too hard for him to not umpire St Kilda until at least many of his former teammates are no longer there.

He may be good enough to not subconsciously favour Montagna of Reiwoldt, but why put him in that scenario in the first place?

 

[mike14]

Do you realise the AFL DE average is around 70%. Take your view dropping Hooker with 82% means that we would be playing 8 a side.

I do, yes. I also understand that viewing DE as a %, without looking at other factors is flawed,. As we saw on Sat night, getting the ball to your target may maintain a good DE% but it does nothing if the player you gave it too was the wrong option and the pressure they were under prior to you giving them the ball causes a turnover.

Hooker was not the only one, but maybe dropping an established player for poor disposal and decision making will wake the rest of the team up. It may not, and I'm aware the club isn't going to drop Hooker but if kids can and do get dropped from the youth leagues, I really don't see why you can't do it to those who are meant to be the best in the world

 

[George Washington]

Drop Hooker

Probably leading the B&F at this stage.

 

[rines]

Long and short is that losing this game has put us right down the pecking order and in the pack.. another loss on ANZAC day and suddenly dark shadows will form.

The biggest problem was ball movement. We were far far too slow, and when we did try to move quickly we stuffed it up or used the wrong option.

Watson at FF was strategic, thankfully there is no injury, so hopefully Thompson won't make that mistake ever again. We robbed Peter to pay Paul and ended up in debt to both.

I expect they will ease back on the training load this week and the team should be fresh for Friday.

I think TBell has to come in and give us a forward marking option. Even if he only play 2 and a bit quarters.. I wouldn't put him in the ruck, he can ruck in the F50 and stay put as a perm FF.. we need a big body down there to crash some packs and cause some havoc.

Hardingham goes out for mine.. has had a poor two weeks after a solid start.. but teams have worked him out now. Personally JD has offered more spark than Hardy for two weeks in a row.

Melksham, Howlett and Zaka are at 'last chance' saloon imho.. and should be given one more opportunity to produce, if not one or more need to go back to the 2nds.

Goddard back will help and Winderlich is always a big in. Ashby and Jetta most likely go out for that duo.

The loss to St Kilda has the potential to derail a season, the key will be ensuring the rot stops now and we get the win against Pies. That would leave us 3-3 with a slightly easier run in the middle stages...