Round 8 2014: Sydney vs Hawthorn - ANZ Stadium

[JoondalupJ]

I look at it this way - Lake out, we bring in Spangher as cover. Spangher out, means we bring in a 3rd stringer or kid (Cheney or Litherland/Heatherly/Brand).

Mitchell OR Hodge OR Burgoyne out - The other two play more midfield minutes and we just rebalance the side, bringing in a young player for exposure.
Shiels OR Sewell OR Lewis out - The other two plays more minutes onball and we restructure half-forward, bringing in a young player for exposure.
Whitecross OR Anderson Or Puopolo out - The other two play more minutes onball and we resturcture the half forward, bringing in a young player for exposure.

Once we are missing Mitchell AND Hodge, Shiels AND Sewell, Whitecross AND Anderson, we are no longer bringing in players in our top 30, but pushing into the bottom quarter of the list.

From the side that played, Cheney (Lake), Hallahan (Mitchell), Hartung (Anderson), Simpkin (Shiels), Langford (Whitecross) would all expect to be only picked on form - with Sewell, Spangher, Cheney, Simpkin, Ceglar providing mature depth.

From that group, Langford has shown enough to suggest he has a role to play in the future, whilst Hallahan and Hartung have only provided glimpses. If Langford is our 21st player, instead of maybe 15th it makes a huge difference.

The flow on effect is we don't play Rioli behind the ball, he doesn't do too much and his hammy doesn't ping. It's why injuries often ebb and flow amongst teams - once once injury hits an area of the ground, the other players in that area have to carry niggles to remain competitive.

Regardless of players out, umpiring interpretations, in-game injuries, arsey snaps from the boundary line - Sydney turned up to play, we didn't and didn't deserve to be as close at quarter time - should have been 5 goals down, and out of the contest. Whether that was the tipping point of too many young players, a flow on from Saints no-impact play last week, or just reflective of a finals bound opponent it wasn't good enough.

Great post , number37 won't understand it though.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Your a sad little fella , and you won too. Gee wiz mate get off. Its Saturday night, go out and enjoy yourself , I'm a bit older so I'll relax here reading your nonsense. Go on, go out have a beer ,its only 9 pm over there.

In fact buggar you number37, I'm going to watch House of Cards, and see some real bastards at work. Good night look forward the next round .

 

[Number37]

Point is , WE WERE MISSING XYZ and few others . That's a fact.Try thinking.

The result is not adjusted for who is in or out.
The FACT is you lost.
Just like you lost the 2012 GF.
The FACT is you lost because your kids weren't good enough. Totally smashed in the first quarter, totally smashed in the last quarter.
The FACT is you are going to have to play those kids until Mitchell and co get back.
The question is, are they going to be good enough?
My opinion is, not on last night's performance.

 

[MinerBoy]

The FACT is you are going to have to play those kids until Mitchell and co get back.
The question is, are they going to be good enough?
My opinion is, not on last night's performance.

That may well prove to be the case. In which case I'd contend that last night's result doesn't bode too well for your team. I guess that is what you are saying right? That you struggled to get over a team of kids who will fail to go anywhere this season?

 

[mess]

The result is not adjusted for who is in or out.
The FACT is you lost.
Just like you lost the 2012 GF.
The FACT is you lost because your kids weren't good enough. Totally smashed in the first quarter, totally smashed in the last quarter.
The FACT is you are going to have to play those kids until Mitchell and co get back.
The question is, are they going to be good enough?
My opinion is, not on last night's performance.

The FACT is that your rampant floggishness notwithstanding, no-one is saying anything different.
The FACT is that your contribution to this discussion has been tantamount to chucking a massive tantrum because Hawks fans aren't as upset about losing as you want us to be.
The FACT is that experience matters, and by definition only ever increases.
Not on last night's performance? No s**t. No-one maxed out their XP last night. Last night was good experience. Last night was a helpful loss.

OMG, can't believe I'm not catastrophising hey? Have a *en cry about it, why don't you.

 

[Man of Miracles]

schoenmakers = clangtastic

 

[hk89]

We don't make excuses. GWS beat us because they were better than us on the night. We played s**t and deserved to lose. Ditto against Collingwood and North.

So you give collingwood, gws and north no credit? You lost because you were s**t?

As was argued at the time, Swans are much better than those performances, as we have subsequently proven.

No you haven't. Your best wins are against an injury depleted Hawthorn, an out of form Freo (now 4 wins out of 8 games). When you came up against near full strength teams in GWS, Pies and North, you lost.

That does not change those results. Rather, it proves those games were the exception rather than the rule.

So your wins against Brisbane, Melbourne, Adelaide, Hawthorn and Freo were the rule and losses against GWS, North and Pies the exception? Why?

You Hawthorn flogs like to argue that is not really a loss because you were missing XYZ, it's not really a true reflection bla bla bla.

Of course it is a loss. It is a true reflection of the sides put on the park last night. It is not a true reflection of what would happen if both teams were full strength. It is called speculation, it is what footy fans do. You like to label it as "stuff flogs do" because it *s with your "Sydney is a great team this year despite losing to GWS" mindset. Sydney are not flag contenders. We both rely on some olders players, but yours are much further past their prime than ours.

Let's see how your kids handle the next few games without Mitchell, Rioli and co. Let's wait and see if last night's performance was the exception or the rule.
We already know that Hawthorn is not unbeatable even with the full list of players. We have proven that (remember the 2012 GF?) and Geelong/Richmond have proven that time and time again.

A team is not unbeatable. You must be a rocket scientist.

I have long held the view that you can't win without Mitchell, chuck in a few other key injuries and you go from a top team to middle of the pack at best.

Mitchell is certainly the player we can least afford to lose, no other member of the team is anywhere near as good at what he does. How blanket statements like "I have long held the view that you can't win without Mitchell" just makes you look like a complete tool, and confirms my long held view that you are a very poor poster who knows very little about footy. Prior to last night, Since 2012 we've been without Mitchell 3 times, and we won every single one of those games. All our losses since the start of the 2012 season (before last night) had Mitchell playing for us. Care to explain your long held view? It certainly doesn't seem to be based on recent history which has shown we have the versatility to win without Mitchell. Even including last night we are running at 75% since the start of 2012 without him. By "long held view" do you mean after last night?

Sydney has proven that they can handle injuries to key players and still go deep into the season

Because they made a prelim after beating a team that (barely) came ninth they have shown an ability to handle injuries? Did you forget the qualifying final? Swans did poorly in the finals series because of injuries, it would have been interesting to see how they would have gone with a healthy list. Injuries help understand why Sydney wasn't more of a player in the finals, see how this speculation on reasons for losses thing works?

and you Hawks flogs keep telling us we have no depth. Now the boots on the other foot and the evidence so far says your depth is not up to it.

We've had fairly bad injury issues all year - initially defenders, now midfielders - and have lost 2 games, what are you on about? The evidence so far says we've done fine, I'm more worried about what will happen over the next few weeks that what has happened so far. Our depth is certainly not up to playing a nearly full strength Sydney without almost all our first choices midfielders out. Your poor kicking might have flattered the score line, but our outs flattered you massively, embarrassing for you team to be behind in the last quarter to be honest, given the teams on the park. After Hodge withdrew and Cyril went down, Sydney should always have won that game, and they did. Well done, but I wouldn't be getting too excited.

 

[Borgan]

Sydney are not flag contenders. We both rely on some olders players, but yours are much further past their prime than ours. QUOTE]

What older players do we rely on? Other than maybe Teddy we don't rely on any players past their prime. Also, in my opinion I reckon we have the best list in the comp. Our midfielders are starting to hit some good form and our forward line has really only played 1 game together. We should improve alot and be right up there with you guys, geelong and port at the end of the year. I can easily see us winning the flag this year.

 

[hk89]

What older players do we rely on? Other than maybe Teddy we don't rely on any players past their prime.

The ones I had in mind were Richards (31) to hold the defence together, Goodes (34) to provide class, and Shaw (33) to provide run from the backline.

I'm sure I'd get plenty of argument from swans fans who would argue those 3 are not past the prime - especially Shaw based on his output this year (seemed poor Friday night though).

 

[Pie eyed]

The FACT is that your rampant floggishness notwithstanding, no-one is saying anything different.
The FACT is that your contribution to this discussion has been tantamount to chucking a massive tantrum because Hawks fans aren't as upset about losing as you want us to be.
The FACT is that experience matters, and by definition only ever increases.
Not on last night's performance? No s**t. No-one maxed out their XP last night. Last night was good experience. Last night was a helpful loss.

OMG, can't believe I'm not catastrophising hey? Have a ****en cry about it, why don't you.

Tantamount to tantrumisation right there.

 

[Number37]

That may well prove to be the case. In which case I'd contend that last night's result doesn't bode too well for your team. I guess that is what you are saying right? That you struggled to get over a team of kids who will fail to go anywhere this season?

Just accept it, STFU and stop making excuses. Your kids are spuds. Your back-ups are spuds
Here's why...because they lost to a team that couldn't even beat GWS, have a 34yr old past his prime, a million dollar man that can't mark because of his bung elbows, knees, shoulders; the worst All Australian ever, a heap of players just waiting to get outta here because our culture's been rooned, no depth because we lost a ruckman and couple of back-ups...what else did you Hawks flogs come up with again, it's hard to keep track of your latest Swans conspiracy theory.

All you floggish Hawk's fans just got bitch slapped by your own arrogance. Boo hoo hoo

 

[hk89]

...because they lost to a team that couldn't even beat GWS, have a 34yr old past his prime, a million dollar man that can't mark because of his bung elbows, knees, shoulders; the worst All Australian ever, a heap of players just waiting to get outta here because our culture's been rooned, no depth because we lost a ruckman and couple of back-ups...

Now we get to the heart of the matter. Our injured players will return, our young players will improve with experience, but the downsides you accurately pointed out for Sydney will only get worse. I'd switch teams now if I was you.

 

[alanlau34]

Just accept it, STFU and stop making excuses. Your kids are spuds. Your back-ups are spuds
Here's why...because they lost to a team that couldn't even beat GWS, have a 34yr old past his prime, a million dollar man that can't mark because of his bung elbows, knees, shoulders; the worst All Australian ever, a heap of players just waiting to get outta here because our culture's been rooned, no depth because we lost a ruckman and couple of back-ups...what else did you Hawks flogs come up with again, it's hard to keep track of your latest Swans conspiracy theory.

All you floggish Hawk's fans just got bitch slapped by your own arrogance. Boo hoo hoo

Sorry for "like" stalking you mate.

The arrogance and hypocrisy of the Hawks posters is rampant. Swans got written off last year despite making a prelim with the injuries we had, "because good teams cover their injuries".

We got told we would fall down the ladder "because they lost all our depth thanks to Buddy".

Now the hawk flogs want to use injuries and lack of depth as excuses for this loss. Look in the mirror boys, what do you see?

 

[MinerBoy]

Just accept it, STFU and stop making excuses. Your kids are spuds. Your back-ups are spuds
Here's why...because they lost to a team that couldn't even beat GWS, have a 34yr old past his prime, a million dollar man that can't mark because of his bung elbows, knees, shoulders; the worst All Australian ever, a heap of players just waiting to get outta here because our culture's been rooned, no depth because we lost a ruckman and couple of back-ups...what else did you Hawks flogs come up with again, it's hard to keep track of your latest Swans conspiracy theory.

All you floggish Hawk's fans just got bitch slapped by your own arrogance. Boo hoo hoo

So I say again that you agree with me that it is a concern for you that Sydney just managed to beat that team we fielded? I'm sure that's what you must be saying. Because our team was spuddish and yours was full strength and awesome (as you've now proven - other games were exceptions) and fell over the line. Man, I'm still confused, so contradictory.

 

[MinerBoy]

Now the hawk flogs want to use injuries and lack of depth as excuses for this loss. Look in the mirror boys, what do you see?

Dude, it does you no favours to side with this guy. He's embarrassing himself. Absolutely throwing the toys out of the cot and stamping his feet up and down, all while making points on one hand that completely contradict what he says on the other. If what you posted here is what you have taken from the exchange then you have failed to understand anything that has been written, by either side.

 

[alanlau34]

Dude, it does you no favours to side with this guy. He's embarrassing himself. Absolutely throwing the toys out of the cot and stamping his feet up and down, all while making points on one hand that completely contradict what he says on the other. If what you posted here is what you have taken from the exchange then you have failed to understand anything that has been written, by either side.

Hey don't get me wrong, I recognize the difficulty of getting up when you have key players out and having to play kids, I just don't think that you can use that as an excuse after the whole 2014 preseason of devaluing the Swans and criticising our recruiting.

Just a sense of satisfaction throwing it back in your (plural, you've been pretty good) face after this win

Number37 is just having a bit more fun and satisfaction than me.

 

[MinerBoy]

No worries mate.

I tend to agree that side with injuries = struggle. As you did in 2013. As Freo have in the past. As we might now.

My issue with him is the call of our replacements as spuds. It just doesn't stand up in light of the result on Friday night. I mean they nearly pulled off a win. Now nearly isn't good enough but they are best 25 replacements - not best 25 players (at this stage). If they can take you blokes right down to the wire when they are carrying the full load with the limited experience they have, then I'd say we have some good players to look forward to as they develop and get more games under their belt.

 

[alanlau34]

No worries mate.

I tend to agree that side with injuries = struggle. As you did in 2013. As Freo have in the past. As we might now.

My issue with him is the call of our replacements as spuds. It just doesn't stand up in light of the result on Friday night. I mean they nearly pulled off a win. Now nearly isn't good enough but they are best 25 replacements - not best 25 players (at this stage). If they can take you blokes right down to the wire when they are carrying the full load with the limited experience they have, then I'd say we have some good players to look forward to as they develop and get more games under their belt.

Your kids are good, again I think meeting hyperbole with hyperbole is justified. Pre-season hype of Box Hill premiers ready to step up in the big time was your own doing.

We had many more scoring shots and entries, so the scoreline could have been a tad deceiving we saw what happened in the last when we kicked straight!

 

[MinerBoy]

Your kids are good, again I think meeting hyperbole with hyperbole is justified. Pre-season hype of Box Hill premiers ready to step up in the big time was your own doing.

We had many more scoring shots and entries, so the scoreline could have been a tad deceiving we saw what happened in the last when we kicked straight!

That's kind of the point though. They did step up. The fact they didn't win doesn't mean they didn't acquit themselves well in the circumstances. Stepping up doesn't mean they have to perform as well as Mitchell straight away. If they could do that, they would be in the side permanently already, not as cover.

No doubt your goal kicking accuracy kept us in it. No one ever disputed that.

 

[alanlau34]

That's kind of the point though. They did step up. The fact they didn't win doesn't mean they didn't acquit themselves well in the circumstances. Stepping up doesn't mean they have to perform as well as Mitchell straight away. If they could do that, they would be in the side permanently already, not as cover.

No doubt your goal kicking accuracy kept us in it. No one ever disputed that.

I think we're going to have to agree to agree.

 

[JoondalupJ]

That may well prove to be the case. In which case I'd contend that last night's result doesn't bode too well for your team. I guess that is what you are saying right? That you struggled to get over a team of kids who will fail to go anywhere this season?

Ha ha ha , well spoken.

 

[skipper kelly]

Winning well is often an unattainable attribute too.

I agree. I am yet to see you blokes win with dignity. Pure arrogance is the Hawthorn way.

 

[MinerBoy]

yawn

 

[skipper kelly]

Just accept it, STFU and stop making excuses. Your kids are spuds. Your back-ups are spuds
Here's why...because they lost to a team that couldn't even beat GWS, have a 34yr old past his prime, a million dollar man that can't mark because of his bung elbows, knees, shoulders; the worst All Australian ever, a heap of players just waiting to get outta here because our culture's been rooned, no depth because we lost a ruckman and couple of back-ups...what else did you Hawks flogs come up with again, it's hard to keep track of your latest Swans conspiracy theory.

All you floggish Hawk's fans just got bitch slapped by your own arrogance. Boo hoo hoo

This is it.

 

[skipper kelly]

yawn

Pages and pages of injury excuses for a loss certainly is.