Traded Ryan Griffen + Pick 6 traded for Tom Boyd

[BRWB]

Brilliant list management or desperate list management?

Only time will tell but given you would have got #4 & #7 out of an equally desperate GWS (who were pot committed to Griffen), you'd likely be going into this draft holding selections #4, #6 & #7.

Boyd will undoubtedly be a very good player but you may spend some time wondering what could have been, had have you taken three quality players from the top end of this draft.
Those players will have names soon and they could be a Morton, Myers and Palmer (2007 draft) or a Hartlett, Yarran & Rich (2008 draft)

Time will tell.

Given a choice out of Hartlett, Yarran and Rich, or Boyd, I'd still take Boyd, and that's assuming our drafting this year was perfect. KPF's are just so hard to find, to have the best rated young KPF since Hawkins is awesome. Even if he turns out half as good as Hawkins, I'd be happy, but I'd wager he'll be better than that.

As you say time will tell, the only thing we do know is that despite very confident predictions from many Carlton fans, Boyd didn't end up at Carlton...

 

[chef]

Brilliant list management or desperate list management?

Only time will tell but given you would have got #4 & #7 out of an equally desperate GWS (who were pot committed to Griffen), you'd likely be going into this draft holding selections #4, #6 & #7.

Boyd will undoubtedly be a very good player but you may spend some time wondering what could have been, had have you taken three quality players from the top end of this draft.
Those players will have names soon and they could be a Morton, Myers and Palmer (2007 draft) or a Hartlett, Yarran & Rich (2008 draft)

Time will tell.

No way Griffen was ever going to get 4 & 7.

Would have been 4 and a fringe player at best.

Plus I doubt any Doggy fan would be thinking what might have been, we finally have a KPF.

 

[HARKER]

Given a choice out of Hartlett, Yarran and Rich, or Boyd, I'd still take Boyd, and that's assuming our drafting this year was perfect. KPF's are just so hard to find, to have the best rated young KPF since Hawkins is awesome. Even if he turns out half as good as Hawkins, I'd be happy, but I'd wager he'll be better than that.

As you say time will tell, the only thing we do know is that despite very confident predictions from many Carlton fans, Boyd didn't end up at Carlton...

That's fine but on the strength of what? Nine games? TAC form?

Look we know that he's not going to turn out a Jack Watts or John Butcher but it's a huge risk that has been spoken about ad nauseum already this week and will continue to get spoken about for the obvious reasons.

I'm just countering that argument that it was brilliant list management. It wasn't and we all know what it was.

 

[Theo X]

It's hilarious on here
Didn't Melbourne put up a nice long contract up for the experienced Jesse Hogan?

You mean the 2 year extension on 4-500K?

 

[HARKER]

No way Griffen was ever going to get 4 & 7.

Would have been 4 and a fringe player at best.

Reckon you would have got it.

GWS would have bartered but you would have got it.
GWS did the nasty on you guys by luring Griffen and there was no coming back from it.

Remember that The Dogs are also paying good money for Griffen to play North. That helps them also.

 

[BRWB]

That's fine but on the strength of what? Nine games? TAC form?

Look we know that he's not going to turn out a Jack Watts or John Butcher but it's a huge risk that has been spoken about ad nauseum already this week and will continue to get spoken about for the obvious reasons.

I'm just countering that argument that it was brilliant list management. It wasn't and we all know what it was.

No denying its a risk. But one we had to take. Too early to say its brilliant, but we had little choice.

Failing to take a risk like this will condemn your club and my club to at best mid table mediocrity. While we watch the gun teams artificially maintain strength via FA and we watch the GC and GWS become behomeths via AFL largesse.

We shouldn't have had to take a risk like this if the competition was fair but its not. We bottomed out when GC and GWS were introduced and when FA was introduced, it screwed us and meant we didn't get good picks a bottom team normally does (and access to KPFs), and at the same time lost Ward, Harbrow and now Griffen.

 

[chef]

Reckon you would have got it.

GWS would have bartered but you would have got it.
GWS did the nasty on you guys by luring Griffen and there was no coming back from it.

Remember that The Dogs are also paying good money for Griffen to play North. That helps them also.

I'm not so sure we would have, he's just not worth that much and it would be a pretty unrealistic ask.

 

[HARKER]

No denying its a risk. But one we had to take. Too early to say its brilliant, but we had little choice.

Failing to take a risk like this will condemn your club and my club to at best mid table mediocrity. While we watch the gun teams artificially maintain strength via FA and we watch the GC and GWS become behomeths via AFL largesse.

We shouldn't have had to take a risk like this if the competition was fair but its not. We bottomed out when GC and GWS were introduced and when FA was introduced, it screwed us and meant we didn't get good picks a bottom team normally does (and access to KPFs), and at the same time lost Ward, Harbrow and now Griffen.

No dispute with The Dogs as they did what they had to do under the circumstances.

What pisses me off though is that we've got to a situation the less popular teams have to pay overs to get a gun, whereas Hawthorn have players happy to play for unders.
I see the gap widening with Free Agency and no Boyd or Cameron is going to magically transform this problem.
There are teams in our competition (?) that are desperate to be seen as being relevant and they'd do anything just to be seen.

By the way and as a Carlton supporter I am bitter but not bitter with The Western Bulldogs.
I'm bitter that we now have managers openly threatening clubs that if they don't deal now, they'll pay for it later.
The Dogs may see a win from the Boyd situation today but may not be happy should Bontempelli insist on being traded next year using a similar ploy.

 

[BRWB]

No dispute with The Dogs as they did what they had to do under the circumstances.

What pisses me off though is that we've got to a situation the less popular teams have to pay overs to get a gun, whereas Hawthorn have players happy to play for unders.
I see the gap widening with Free Agency and no Boyd or Cameron is going to magically transform this problem.
There are teams in our competition (?) that are desperate to be seen as being relevant and they'd do anything just to be seen.

By the way and as a Carlton supporter I am bitter but not bitter with The Western Bulldogs.
I'm bitter that we now have managers openly threatening clubs that if they don't deal now, they'll pay for it later.
The Dogs may see a win from the Boyd situation today but may not be happy should Bontempelli insist on being traded next year using a similar ploy.

Yep the system sucks right now. Watch it change next year when GWS lose a batch of players - can't have that can we?

While we are drifting off Boyd, there will need to be rules put in place to reduce player power. FA is crippling the lower clubs even more than the denial of draft picks caused by GWC and GC entry.

Rules such as the Top 4 teams being allowed to recruit FAs but must pay their 1st round pick.

Rules such as extending the length of Rookie contracts.

At least as a Carlton supporter you had the benefit of 'no rules' in the 80's and 90's, that saw you get Kernahan, Bradley and Williams.

 

[fronkalicious]

No dispute with The Dogs as they did what they had to do under the circumstances.

What pisses me off though is that we've got to a situation the less popular teams have to pay overs to get a gun, whereas Hawthorn have players happy to play for unders.
I see the gap widening with Free Agency and no Boyd or Cameron is going to magically transform this problem.
There are teams in our competition (?) that are desperate to be seen as being relevant and they'd do anything just to be seen.

By the way and as a Carlton supporter I am bitter but not bitter with The Western Bulldogs.
I'm bitter that we now have managers openly threatening clubs that if they don't deal now, they'll pay for it later.
The Dogs may see a win from the Boyd situation today but may not be happy should Bontempelli insist on being traded next year using a similar ploy.

Bonti is sweet. No stress there.

We've gone hard to build our under 23 group. We won't be winning many games until our core hit that 23-27 age bracket, but when they do we will come with a rush. I'd much rather that than the half pregnant lists that essendon, Carlton and a couple of others have going on.

 

[Determinant]

Reckon you would have got it.

GWS would have bartered but you would have got it.
GWS did the nasty on you guys by luring Griffen and there was no coming back from it.

Remember that The Dogs are also paying good money for Griffen to play North. That helps them also.

Griffen's manager approached us and a couple of other non-Melbourne clubs to gauge interest, we didn't lure him, this is public domain stuff, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good slander..

 

[Andy_Mac]

IMO whilst Boyd should become elite, the dogs would have been better advised to trade Griff for P4 and then just draft Wright and Lever.

Understanding next year Boyd was going to be available, uncontracted and potentially get able for far less. Allowing the dogs to havie already put 12 months into 2 other elite KPP prospects.

 

[chef]

Griffen's manager approached us and a couple of other non-Melbourne clubs to gauge interest, we didn't lure him, this is public domain stuff, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good slander..

Yep. Ryan started flirting around half way through the season, he wasn't poached as some like to think.

It seems it was get me out of the fishbowl (Melbourne) or I'll happily retire.

 

[HARKER]

Griffen's manager approached us and a couple of other non-Melbourne clubs to gauge interest, we didn't lure him, this is public domain stuff, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good slander..

Is that a fact? Fair enough then.

Trade radio guys were leading with GWS putting the bait out for Griffen. As if they'd know.
Whichever way though once the ball got rolling there would have been little chance of GWS pulling back.

 

[BRWB]

IMO whilst Boyd should become elite, the dogs would have been better advised to trade Griff for P4 and then just draft Wright and Lever.

Understanding next year Boyd was going to be available, uncontracted and potentially get able for far less. Allowing the dogs to havie already put 12 months into 2 other elite KPP prospects.

Wright had back concerns. Lever coming off an ACL. Massive risks. All rate significantly behind Boyd anyway. I'd happily trade Lever and Wright for Boyd just on what I saw of him monstering Geelong last year when still a puppy and unfit. Just relying on the draft with unproven kids can be problematic, look at J Toumpas, J Watts, T Scully, J Trengove, etc...

Is that a fact? Fair enough then.

Trade radio guys were leading with GWS putting the bait out for Griffen. As if they'd know.
Whichever way though once the ball got rolling there would have been little chance of GWS pulling back.

Well I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. GWS were apparently into Griffen last year. When the wheels fell off for him this year, he went back to them and said 'How bout it'?

 

[Theo X]

Wright had back concerns. Lever coming off an ACL. Massive risks. All rate significantly behind Boyd anyway. I'd happily trade Lever and Wright for Boyd just on what I saw of him monstering Geelong last year when still a puppy and unfit. Just relying on the draft with unproven kids can be problematic, look at J Toumpas, J Watts, T Scully, J Trengove, etc...



Well I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. GWS were apparently into Griffen last year. When the wheels fell off for him this year, he went back to them and said 'How bout it'?

Is this not exactly what your club is doing? (Boyd is basically a draftee, just on a mill a year)

 

[BRWB]

"]Is this not exactly what your club is doing? (Boyd is basically a draftee, just on a mill a year)[/QUOTE]

Not completely, he looked pretty good last year. Anyway, I don't think anyone is disputing the guy is going to be a champ. Look out when our list all matures at the same time, Macrae, Stringer, Bonts, Libba, Hrovat, Boyd, Wallis, etc.

 

[ManOfClay]

Is this not exactly what your club is doing? (Boyd is basically a draftee, just on a mill a year)

I do like how that draftee made Jeremy Howe look like a kid this year. Best tackle attempt ever by Howe.

Ps - Boyd is on a normal wage next year

 

[Giant Pete]

"]Is this not exactly what your club is doing? (Boyd is basically a draftee, just on a mill a year)

Not completely, he looked pretty good last year. Anyway, I don't think anyone is disputing the guy is going to be a champ. Look out when our list all matures at the same time, Macrae, Stringer, Bonts, Libba, Hrovat, Boyd, Wallis, etc.[/QUOTE]
Lots of clubs with a good bunch of kids

 

[Tbone McGraw]

"]Is this not exactly what your club is doing? (Boyd is basically a draftee, just on a mill a year)

Not completely, he looked pretty good last year. Anyway, I don't think anyone is disputing the guy is going to be a champ. Look out when our list all matures at the same time, Macrae, Stringer, Bonts, Libba, Hrovat, Boyd, Wallis, etc.[/QUOTE]
Only problem is keeping them all. Players don't want to stay at clubs that are not winning.

 

[Kony Abbott]

No dispute with The Dogs as they did what they had to do under the circumstances.

What pisses me off though is that we've got to a situation the less popular teams have to pay overs to get a gun, whereas Hawthorn have players happy to play for unders.
I see the gap widening with Free Agency and no Boyd or Cameron is going to magically transform this problem.
There are teams in our competition (?) that are desperate to be seen as being relevant and they'd do anything just to be seen.

By the way and as a Carlton supporter I am bitter but not bitter with The Western Bulldogs.
I'm bitter that we now have managers openly threatening clubs that if they don't deal now, they'll pay for it later.
The Dogs may see a win from the Boyd situation today but may not be happy should Bontempelli insist on being traded next year using a similar ploy.

Agree with the bolded, its like country footy. Frawley just ups and decides he'd like to win a flag next year? sure, come to Hawthorn.

 

[womble54]

IMO whilst Boyd should become elite, the dogs would have been better advised to trade Griff for P4 and then just draft Wright and Lever.

Understanding next year Boyd was going to be available, uncontracted and potentially get able for far less. Allowing the dogs to havie already put 12 months into 2 other elite KPP prospects.

The problem with 2015 is we will need our picks to satisfy GWS and Essendon for both the WHE and Carlisle trades. Better to get the Boyd deal done now to give us at least some room for those two negociations

 

[womble54]

And nothing is going to make your players happier than knowing that a 9 game kid is getting 10% of your cap for 7 years, and the ex-captain who just walked out is getting a fair whack of your TPP too, even though he's playing for GWS. "Gee, sorry Dahlhouse... we can't give you an increased contract because we promised Ryan we'd give him your share so he could walk out on you. We'd give some of what's left over, but Tom is 200cm and was a number one pick, so you know... he's just more important to the club."

What a shambles.

I was literally open mouthed reading your post. Do you even realise the club you advertise you support? Poster children for massive deals that have the effect of destroying your clubs culture. Pot, kettle, black - but thanks little fella for your efforts to contribute........

 

[Mofra]

No way Griffen was ever going to get 4 & 7.

Would have been 4 and a fringe player at best.

Plus I doubt any Doggy fan would be thinking what might have been, we finally have a KPF.

Rumour at the time was that pick #7 + a sweetener was on the table from GWS - pick no 4 may not have been in play

 

[Sedat!]

IMO whilst Boyd should become elite, the dogs would have been better advised to trade Griff for P4 and then just draft Wright and Lever.

Understanding next year Boyd was going to be available, uncontracted and potentially get able for far less. Allowing the dogs to havie already put 12 months into 2 other elite KPP prospects.

Two things. Firstly, there are no guarantees whatsoever that either Wright or Lever will be available at pick 4 and our existing pick 6 - that's not to mention the fact that Boyd's U-18 numbers leave Wright in the shade. Secondly, how will a 20yo Boyd become any less valuable than a 19yo Boyd (assuming no serious injuries)? With a conga-line of Melbourne based clubs clamouring for his services, Boyd would more than likely have pocketed even more next year.