#Sackwatch - Poll Updated!!!

[Zidane98]

The thing that is hardest to fathom is that Liverpool fans can't admit that Suarez got them from being outside of the top 4 to coming 2nd in 2013-14 (a 6 point difference that season), but are certain that if Sturridge was fit last year they would have jumped up from 7th to 4th (a 9 point difference).

Can one player make a difference or not?

Totally different scenarios. For starters Suarez scored 30 goals in 12/13 and where did we finish?

Secondly you can't just look at the points total. Last season once it looked like 4th wasn't possible the team switched off. That wouldn't of happened with 20 goals from Sturridge most likely seeing us higher up the ladder.

Is it that hard to credit Rodgers for the football he produced in 13/14 with young players instead of buying a team full of established stars?

 

[ADL9798]

Interesting. If you were to remove Suarez from that team, do you think you get as close? He mightn't be the only reason but he is by far and away, the largest reason.

We definitely wouldn't, but by the same token I don't think Arsenal and United win the league in 2004 and 2008 respectively without Henry and Ronaldo. It's a moot point anyway because those sides obviously did have those players, and were set up to play a certain way to ensure they got the best out of them.

Suarez had a huge influence over Liverpool and as you say was the biggest factor in the ability of that side to challenge for the league, but that doesn't mean that the manager had zero influence as some are suggesting. Rodgers certainly played a big role and while he's been inconsistent in the year and a bit since, between Jan/Feb 2013 and May 2014 he got his tactics and the structure of the side spot on, and was one of the key factors in our strong performances during that period.

It's the historical revisionism of some with respect to Rodgers' input during that season that I'm disagreeing with. If what we did that season was so easy and it all came down to a single player (who by the way was also with us for 2 largely unsuccessful years prior to 2013/14), then teams would've jumped from 7th and 30 points off the pace to within a few points of winning the league in a 12 month period with far greater regularity.

As it happens, this is the only time something of that nature has happened during the Premier League era. So, while on the one hand I'll happily criticise Rodgers for his undeniably poor performances over the last 7-8 months which lead to his sacking, I think it's only fair to give him credit where it's due for playing a big part in that rare feat 12 months previously instead of writing him off as a potato for the entirety of his 3 year stint in charge. I don't think that's unreasonable, do you?

 

[Zidane98]

Against who were those 4 wins?

Do you think if Suarez was removed from that side, you would have come second and pushed for the title?

Stoke, United, Villa, Soton, Swansea.

Some would have you believe we'd lose all 5 without Suarez.

 

[elhadjihenry]

Definitely not, but by the same token I don't think Arsenal and United win the league in 2004 and 2008 respectively without Henry and Ronaldo. It's a moot point anyway because those sides obviously did have those players, and were set up to play a certain way to ensure they got the best out of them.

I can't talk specifics about United but as for us in 2004, Henry was a superstar sure but that team was world class from start to finish and that's what won us the League that year. The lineup was formidable and had no weaknesses. 6 of the 11 players named in the PFA team of the year were Arsenal players.

At Liverpool 2013-14 Suarez was a level above the rest of the team which is why many say he carried them, you certainly had a lot of contributors but you didn't have an XI full of top quality players like we did in the invincible season.

 

[Jatz]

We definitely wouldn't, but by the same token I don't think Arsenal and United win the league in 2004 and 2008 respectively without Henry and Ronaldo. It's a moot point anyway because those sides obviously did have those players, and were set up to play a certain way to ensure they got the best out of them.

Suarez had a huge influence over Liverpool and as you say was the biggest factor in the ability of that side to challenge for the league, but that doesn't mean that the manager had zero influence as some are suggesting. Rodgers certainly played a big role and while he's been inconsistent in the year and a bit since, between Jan/Feb 2013 and May 2014 he got his tactics and the structure of the side spot on, and was one of the key factors in our strong performances during that period.

It's the historical revisionism of some with respect to Rodgers' input during that season that I'm disagreeing with. If what we did that season was so easy and it all came down to a single player (who by the way was also with us for 2 largely unsuccessful years prior to 2013/14), then teams would've jumped from 7th and 30 points off the pace to within a few points of winning the league in a 12 month period with far greater regularity.

As it happens, this is the only time something of that nature has happened during the Premier League era. So, while on the one hand I'll happily criticise Rodgers for his undeniably poor performances over the last 7-8 months which lead to his sacking, I think it's only fair to give him credit where it's due for playing a big part in that rare feat 12 months previously instead of writing him off as a potato for the entirety of his 3 year stint in charge. I don't think that's unreasonable, do you?

There's no doubting he had some influence. Absolutely none.

How much is where I begin to question it.

 

[Thistle]

I think Rodgers deserves a lot of credit for that season. He came across as a manager who was good at keeping up winning momentum but struggled picking up a team after a couple of poor results.

I also think Suarez's influence is overrated given he didn't score against the other clubs who made the top four. Bit rich to say it was all down to one player, the whole Liverpool where blowing teams out of the water in that run.

 

[elhadjihenry]

I think Rodgers deserves a lot of credit for that season. He came across as a manager who was good at keeping up winning momentum but struggled picking up a team after a couple of poor results.

I also think Suarez's influence is overrated given he didn't score against the other clubs who made the top four. Bit rich to say it was all down to one player, the whole Liverpool where blowing teams out of the water in that run.

Isn't that what makes a good manager though? It's one thing being able to keep morale up and go "keep doing what you're doing boys!" but to be able to adapt in the face of adversity when results are hard to come by is the real challenge.

 

[moomba]

Will be interesting to see where he ends up. Can't see a top team.in England giving him the job. He's pissed off most of the next level teams like Spurs with his soundbytes.

Maybe the likes of Sunderland, although he's already admitted he can't do a lot without the tools and their tool cupboard is pretty bare. And I'm not sure his ego could handle taking on a "lesser" job.

Overseas maybe, I think he loves the attention a bit too much to do a McLaren/Moyes and head abroad.

I reckon he'll try and get his way into a TV job in the short term. Wouldnt surprise me at all to see him on the screens next week if not for the internationals.

Puke.

 

[Zidane98]

Think he'd be a good replacement for Woy. He'd play the style of football that England aspire to and wouldn't be afraid to give kids with potential a go.

Doesn't need to worry about the transfer side of things either managing at international level.

Can't see him being out of the managerial loop for too long.

 

[ADL9798]

Think he'd be a good replacement for Woy. He'd play the style of football that England aspire to and wouldn't be afraid to give kids with potential a go.

Doesn't need to worry about he transfer side if things either managing at international level.

Can't see him being out if the managerial loop for too long.

I'd actually put money on that happening. It seems inevitable that Roy will be sacked after the upcoming Euros, perhaps even before, and Rodgers will be among the leading candidates you'd think.

Edit: Forgot about Ancelotti, will be interesting to watch what happens there. Will he come to Milan's rescue again?

 

[moomba]

With Englands track record of stupid managerial appointments he probably would be on the shortlist.

At least McLaren had actually won something in his career.

 

[Zidane98]

There's no doubting he had some influence. Absolutely none.

How much is where I begin to question it.

Likewise Aguero, Hazard & Ronaldo had the same influence.

 

[Zidane98]

With Englands track record of stupid managerial appointments he probably would be on the shortlist.

At least McLaren had actually won something in his career.

Rodgers is 42 years old. He wouldn't be a stupid appointment at all. England need a manager that likes to play attractive football.

He wouldn't be afraid to rid the England team of players like Rooney who are past their best and not going to be around long term.

 

[moomba]

Rodgers is 42 years old. He wouldn't be a stupid appointment at all. England need a manager that likes to play attractive football.

He wouldn't be afraid to rid the England team of players like Rooney who are past their best and not going to be around long term.

Attractive football counts for * all if you can't coach your team to defend. And I havent seen all that much attractive football from Liverpool over the past few years anyway. Maybe Pellegrini should get the job.

Rodgers really hasnt done anything to justify being considered. Maybe Northern Ireland, although they're doing pretty well as it is.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Ange Postecoglou for Pool?

 

[moomba]

Likewise Aguero, Hazard & Ronaldo had the same influence.

Dzeko was more influential for us in 13/14 iirc. Was huge in the run home. Yaya as well.

11/12 was just an all round performance. Aguero, Silva, Yaya, Barry, Kompany, Hart, Clichy all had huge seasons.

 

[ADL9798]

With Englands track record of stupid managerial appointments he probably would be on the shortlist.

At least McLaren had actually won something in his career.

To be fair, so had this guy:

I think we've established that League Cups and Swedish titles probably aren't the best predictor of the quality of performances under various England managers.

 

[Zidane98]

Dzeko was more influential for us in 13/14 iirc. Was huge in the run home. Yaya as well.

11/12 was just an all round performance. Aguero, Silva, Yaya, Barry, Kompany, Hart, Clichy all had huge seasons.

Likewise for us in 13/14. Sturridge, Coutinho, Sterling, Henderson, Suarez & Gerrard all had huge seasons.

 

[moomba]

To be fair, so had this guy:
View attachment 181176
I think we've established that League Cups and Swedish titles probably aren't the best predictor of the quality of performances under various England managers.

So we go with the bloke that hasnt even managed that. #falogic

 

[BlueBen]

I'm not sure that Rodgers would want to manage at international level just yet. I think he prefers to more hands-on experience of club management.

Not sure where he will end up next. Maybe Newcastle if, as seems likely, McClaren isn't there long-term, or Villa, two fairly big clubs who are currently under-achievers but who he might feel he can restore.

 

[DBAH0]

Telegraph is reporting that Fat Sam is Sunderland's 1st choice as manager now.

It'll come down to whether he wants to get straight back into management and whether he's going to get control over transfers (Kevin Nolan will have a job in a few weeks then if he makes the move.....)

 

[DBAH0]

I'm not sure that Rodgers would want to manage at international level just yet. I think he prefers to more hands-on experience of club management.

Not sure where he will end up next. Maybe Newcastle if, as seems likely, McClaren isn't there long-term, or Villa, two fairly big clubs who are currently under-achievers but who he might feel he can restore.

Yeah I think those 2 clubs you've mentioned make the most sense. If he did well at either of those it would help him rebuild his reputation.

West Ham actually would have made a lot of sense for Rodgers because he ticked a lot of the boxes in terms of what the owners wanted from a manager in the off-season (British, plays attractive football etc.)

 

[Latro]

If I wanted to keep a good reputation as a Manager I would not touch Villa or Newcastle.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

If I wanted to keep a good reputation as a Manager I would not touch Villa or Newcastle.

Add sunderland to that list as well.

 

[Cooldude]

To be fair, so had this guy:
View attachment 181176
I think we've established that League Cups and Swedish titles probably aren't the best predictor of the quality of performances under various England managers.

* you, Woy is da best

: "Of course, my track record, if people bothered to study it, would put me in the same category as [Sir Alex] Ferguson enjoys today, but people don't talk about what I've done outside England"