Discussion Junction Oval / Moorabbin redevelopments

[Yoda_]

This is just my opinion, but i think trying to set up a training base at somewhere that has never been a official home base wont work unless you are one of the so called 'big'clubs.
Collingwood moving to train at Lexus /Olympic park worked because they have got 25 million members. They could move to Koo Wee Rup and still pull it off. And at least Olympic park isnt 40 min away from Collingwood.
I think if Nth had a training base away from Nth Melbourne and Bulldogs away fro Footscray it would just come across as kind off 'souless'.
Thats how i feel about Seaford. Doesnt matter how good they make it, its never going to have history or soul.
Moorabbin or The Junction are the only way we can have a real home base. Couldve maybe pulled it of at Waverly as well but the Hawks got in first.
Seaford will never have any History .
I really hope we end up back at Moorabbin or StKIida.

The worst part about the training base is the location. The putrid position of the ground is horrendous. A quick fix if you like. Had the Saints located a ground closer to public transport or an easily accessible ground it may have worked.

Tucked away in a back pocket of the suburb with only a solitary side street to access the ground is hardly inviting.


I know its easier said than done. Why can't the AFL/governments/St.Kilda pour the money into Moorabin and upgrade the works there?
The 'heart and soul' comment is true. Would have thought more people would now Moorabin as the spiritual home than that of Junction Oval.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

The worst part about the training base is the location.

Just wondering your opinion on your clubs new home Yoda.
I dont mean how good you think the facility is, as it looks pretty good. Personally i like the indoor training hanger. The 'hanger' ties in with the Clubs history and its better than most clubs just training indoors on a basketball court surface.
But how did you feel about shifting base. I used to live close to Windy Hill and i thought it was in a great position. Had a real strong community feel to it cos it was smack bang in the middle of the town shopping precinct and had train/tram right there. Though i understand being in the centre of town limited expansion. But i thought Windy Hill was such a huge part of the Town and its culture.
Even though the new Training centre is only a suburb or so away its now just in a industrial area on the way to the airport.
I think its better for the players, but i think its a loss for the Essendon Community.

 

[Periphery]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ha...ay-from-waverley/story-fndv8os9-1227116915142

Hawthorn is tossing up whether to spend $35 million doubling the size of its footy facilities at Waverley or find an entirely new site to build on undeveloped land.

As recently as last March Hawthorn had committed to expanding Waverley but the Herald Sun understands spending $50 million on a new home is still a real possibility.

How the hell are we meant to compete with this? If the Hawks can afford to spend $35-50m on new facilities then we are so far behind that we may never catch up and whatever equalisation measures the AFL has in place wont be anywhere near enough.

 

[God Save Max King]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ha...ay-from-waverley/story-fndv8os9-1227116915142



How the hell are we meant to compete with this? If the Hawks can afford to spend $35-50m on new facilities then we are so far behind that we may never catch up and whatever equalisation measures the AFL has in place wont be anywhere near enough.

Footy tax is yet to start, isn't it? We'll be fine, we had the opportunity to compete years ago, and we failed to take it with both hands. Fair enough to the Hawks for putting themselves in the position to make a $35m upgrade to their facilities.

E: Does anyone know when the Saints annual report will be released? Not expecting good news regardless.

 

[Defacto]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ha...ay-from-waverley/story-fndv8os9-1227116915142



How the hell are we meant to compete with this? If the Hawks can afford to spend $35-50m on new facilities then we are so far behind that we may never catch up and whatever equalisation measures the AFL has in place wont be anywhere near enough.

pretty much. i laugh at the equalisation measures. they are not equalisation at all. not even close.

if i was to sum up our situation, it would be that we are pawns to the bigger clubs and therefore the AFL. we are more often than not used as a means to an ends now

as a supporter group our fans think we are more important than we really are and generally over-rate our chance at success

 

[Defacto]

Footy tax is yet to start, isn't it? We'll be fine, we had the opportunity to compete years ago, and we failed to take it with both hands. Fair enough to the Hawks for putting themselves in the position to make a $35m upgrade to their facilities.

E: Does anyone know when the Saints annual report will be released? Not expecting good news regardless.

people are over-rating how much this footy tax will deliver. its capped. its not going to deliver much

 

[Nutsngum]

We got within a kick and a bounce of two premierships against two of the biggest and best funded/run sides in the competition whilst operating out of Moorabbin which is close to local footy in facilities.

It is the quality of the people and the plan, not drones flying around a a pretty new ground to look at that wins premierships.

 

[Periphery]

Footy tax is yet to start, isn't it? We'll be fine, we had the opportunity to compete years ago, and we failed to take it with both hands. Fair enough to the Hawks for putting themselves in the position to make a $35m upgrade to their facilities.

E: Does anyone know when the Saints annual report will be released? Not expecting good news regardless.

My point was more to highlight the giant chasm between the financial situations of the top and bottom sides. Yes, we should be in a better spot that we are and the Hawks have done very well for themselves. But there is no way the footy tax will get anywhere near equalising anything if the Hawks at looking at spending that kind of money.

We could only dream about having access to that much money. We'd be out of Seaford in an instant and back into Moorabbin if we had $35m to spend on redeveloping it. Instead we are left begging for funds to have our VFL team share the facilities with other local teams while hoping that the stars align and we can sneak into a deal at JO. All while being stuck in facilities we have already outgrown at Seaford.

We got within a kick and a bounce of two premierships against two of the biggest and best funded/run sides in the competition whilst operating out of Moorabbin which is close to local footy in facilities.

It is the quality of the people and the plan, not drones flying around a a pretty new ground to look at that wins premierships.

Everything counts and even the slightest improvement could be the difference between winning a flag and not.

 

[70s sainter]

We got within a kick and a bounce of two premierships against two of the biggest and best funded/run sides in the competition whilst operating out of Moorabbin which is close to local footy in facilities.

It is the quality of the people and the plan, not drones flying around a a pretty new ground to look at that wins premierships.

True but we may have actually won the thing if we were a richer club- who knows. (Sigh)

 

[Nutsngum]

Everything counts and even the slightest improvement could be the difference between winning a flag and not.

Sports science in general is one of the most argued things in existence. Yes doing x thing different might give you that edge but it could also be a massive waste of time.

Hawthorn are the team they are not because of the money spent but the mindset they have the players in. That of winners.

True but we may have actually won the thing if we were a richer club- who knows. (Sigh)

If you want to argue about where we went wrong you can start with drafting better players to form out bottom few players from 2006 up and manage Kosi and Balls injuries better, neither of which was to do with money and both of which would have been that 5% that would have won us those flags.

 

[Periphery]

Sports science in general is one of the most argued things in existence. Yes doing x thing different might give you that edge but it could also be a massive waste of time.

Hawthorn are the team they are not because of the money spent but the mindset they have the players in. That of winners.

I'm not really talking about which supplements are better or if a salt room treatment is beneficial to a players recovery. It's more about the resources available to the club in general. Having poor admin facilities is detrimental to the overall performance of the club and has to have some effect on the teams onfield performance.

The fact that we don't have a full size pool can't be a positive thing and I'm sure limits what we can and can't do. The quality of the clubs training facilities would also have an impact on the mental side of things for the players. If they believe they are in the best possible environment to get he most out of themselves it has to have a positive effect on their development and training. In any workplace the quality of environment effects your mental state and how you perform. Happy workers are good workers.

Every club is constantly trying to improve in every facet of their operations and having more money can only make that process easier. You might waste some money on things that don't end up working but you might manage to find improvements that could be the difference between winning a flag and not winning one.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The worst part about the training base is the location. The putrid position of the ground is horrendous. A quick fix if you like. Had the Saints located a ground closer to public transport or an easily accessible ground it may have worked.

Tucked away in a back pocket of the suburb with only a solitary side street to access the ground is hardly inviting.


I know its easier said than done. Why can't the AFL/governments/St.Kilda pour the money into Moorabin and upgrade the works there?
The 'heart and soul' comment is true. Would have thought more people would now Moorabin as the spiritual home than that of Junction Oval.

Load of crap.
I like the bushland close bye.
Do you really think public transport makes any difference to anyone who matters? Nick Riewoldt going to catch the train to work?
How's the public transport working out for the Hawks at Waverly.
Bombers at Tullamarine.

I'd rather go jogging round the bushland next to the Saints oval, or along the beach, than round Essendon airport.

 

[Nutsngum]

I'm not really talking about which supplements are better or if a salt room treatment is beneficial to a players recovery. It's more about the resources available to the club in general. Having poor admin facilities is detrimental to the overall performance of the club and has to have some effect on the teams onfield performance.

The fact that we don't have a full size pool can't be a positive thing and I'm sure limits what we can and can't do. The quality of the clubs training facilities would also have an impact on the mental side of things for the players. If they believe they are in the best possible environment to get he most out of themselves it has to have a positive effect on their development and training. In any workplace the quality of environment effects your mental state and how you perform. Happy workers are good workers.

Every club is constantly trying to improve in every facet of their operations and having more money can only make that process easier. You might waste some money on things that don't end up working but you might manage to find improvements that could be the difference between winning a flag and not winning one.

I agree that not having a full sized pool and other "basic" things is certainly a detriment compared to the others but a lot of the higher end deptartment spending the other clubs are going for really is frivilious stuff that has no definite effect on anything. Thats all my point, that theres little point worrying about that extra 1% theyre trying to leech out when theres so many other factors that decide premierships.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Ok if Junction Oval isn't a goer it's time to start petitioning the Government and AFL to get AFL games played at Frankston Oval or on the Hastings Foreshore. Why should the Bulldogs get all the help?

At the very least we should be playing NAB challenge games on the Peninsula.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Ok if Junction Oval isn't a goer it's time to start petitioning the Government and AFL to get AFL games played at Frankston Oval or on the Hastings Foreshore. Why should the Bulldogs get all the help?

At the very least we should be playing NAB challenge games on the Peninsula.

Have you been to Franga oval lately?
It would never happen.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Have you been to Franga oval lately?
It would never happen.

Simple, buy up the buildings north of the oval to get more room. Alternatively, what are Frankston Council doing with Jubilee Park now that they have the new aquatic centre next to the TAFE?

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Simple, buy up the buildings north of the oval to get more room.

I get your point. Try to push the whole Saints/Peninsula thingy by playing games down there.,
But Arden St, Vic Park, Visy Park etc are all considered sub standard for AFL games and they are all probably in better order than Franga Town.
Would be good for the local peeps but i just couldnt ever see the AFL pumping money into doing it.
TBH im selfish and i dont want my STKILDA team playing waaaaaay over that side of Victoria.
But in running with your idea it wouldve been interesting to see how an VFL/AFL team wouldve fared being based over in the Peninsula ,Kardinia Park style.
Mightve been a full on rivalry against the Cats on the other side of the bay.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

I'm only talking about 2-3 games max, the ones we wont pull a crowd to anyway, as long as the surface is up to standard we should be able to play and if Stadium Australia's surface is ok I don't see how a VFL level ground couldn't (or be made to at small outlay)

 

[Periphery]

The AFL wont put in the money to set up an AFL level boutique stadium when they will be taking control of Etihad fairly soon anyway. The cost would be too prohibitive and we might just end up with a deal similar to Etihad because whoever forks over the money is going to want a return. It wouldn't be worth it for a couple of games a year. Hopefully the AFL just buys Etihad asap and we get a great deal from them (I'm not holding my breath though).

I'd prefer to see if we can find more money for extra development to Moorabbin that would allow us to move our admin and training base there. Design it so that we can add more capacity to the stadium etc in the future so that a return to playing games there is a possibility (even if it isn't likely).

It would complicate things with the VFL alignment and we'd probably have to stay aligned with Sandy if this happened though due to them not having a ground to train/play at. But that in itself would save us money that we could spend on other areas and if the current scheme is working well then it could be worth it.

 

[VDS66]

Am going to throw it out there...

Have change my mind about Seaford.

Had to drop some stuff down that way, and frankly, I doubt that the area is the untapped supporter gold mine to be honest.

Mt Martha and mt Eliza are all well and good, but frankly, I can't see too many people making the trek into town to watch us play... except for the die hards.

Otherwise, the socio-economic demographics don't stack up.

And I don't think the Junction Oval is the asnwer.

It's time for the club to look at a return to Moorabbin and set up an elite centre back there. Stuff the Pokies. Deal with it when the time comes.

South East and surrounds is a far more affluent area where people can afford memberships, and it's accessible for home games.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Am going to throw it out there...

Have change my mind about Seaford.

Had to drop some stuff down that way, and frankly, I doubt that the area is the untapped supporter gold mine to be honest.

Mt Martha and mt Eliza are all well and good, but frankly, I can't see too many people making the trek into town to watch us play... except for the die hards.

Otherwise, the socio-economic demographics don't stack up.

And I don't think the Junction Oval is the asnwer.

It's time for the club to look at a return to Moorabbin and set up an elite centre back there. Stuff the Pokies. Deal with it when the time comes.

South East and surrounds is a far more affluent area where people can afford memberships, and it's accessible for home games.

You really have a wacked elitist idea of demographics of the suburbs and who buys club memberships.
My location is probably as far out of town as Seaford. Guess what , if I want to go to the CBD I just do it. I've got more disposable income than I would I I'd overstretched myself to buy a dump in East Bentleigh or somewhere.

Most people don't go to the clubhouse/training anyway.

 

[Winners Only]

Its correct the Saints are falling further behind the bigger clubs to the point where drastic change needs to eventuate for the club to recover ground. Hopefully the change is a bale out by the Govt/AFL in a more back to Junction Oval or I fear for the clubs long term future remaining in VIC!

 

[Periphery]

Its correct the Saints are falling further behind the bigger clubs to the point where drastic change needs to eventuate for the club to recover ground. Hopefully the change is a bale out by the Govt/AFL in a more back to Junction Oval or I fear for the clubs long term future remaining in VIC!

It looks like any chance of a move to JO is dead if Labor wins and if the Liberals win the whole thing is $30m underfunded on a halfassed version of the plan and $44m if we wanted to do it properly.

My gut tells me that the move to JO is not going to happen.

 

[VDS66]

You really have a wacked elitist idea of demographics of the suburbs and who buys club memberships.
My location is probably as far out of town as Seaford. Guess what , if I want to go to the CBD I just do it. I've got more disposable income than I would I I'd overstretched myself to buy a dump in East Bentleigh or somewhere.

Most people don't go to the clubhouse/training anyway.

Not elitist at all. You won't find more blue collar than me.

It comes down to disposable income and desire to attend games in the CBD. Going to the footy isn't just driving to Linton st, paying a few bucks for entry any more.

It's a massive financial hit for a lot of people, but as I said, the diehards won't have a problem with it. And it's not just about incomes. I have friends in Sth Franga who only go to 3 games. It's about disposable time as well. Factor in approx 90 mins travel each way, fuel, parking, etc etc. Getting home at midnight.

Some - like myself - buy a membership even though I can't get to many games due to family commitments. My opinion is that if it too expensive or difficult to get to games, then it's a disincentive for people.

Theer are people in every area of Melb that cannot get to the footy or afford a membership.

I think you are taking my comments out of context. FWIW, people who bought in East Bentleigh 20 years ago are doing mighty fine. It's all about lifestyle choice and I am not judging anyone on this.

Overstretching? A $300k mortgage is a $300k mortgage regardles if it's in East bent or Hastings. If you have $400k deposit then you can choose the lifestyle you want. nothing wrong with that.

All I am saying is that if we move, I'd prefer it to be back to Moorabbin. If we stay then so be it. I have argued on here that no one goes to training and that it should only be about the players.

 

[VDS66]

Its correct the Saints are falling further behind the bigger clubs to the point where drastic change needs to eventuate for the club to recover ground. Hopefully the change is a bale out by the Govt/AFL in a more back to Junction Oval or I fear for the clubs long term future remaining in VIC!

Well we have a decent lease at Moorabbin. Stuff the JO if it can't b done properly.