Discussion Junction Oval / Moorabbin redevelopments

[Curious George]

Haha cant spot a gag George?

Your comments re membership make no sense.

Members will return when the club gets its act together on & off the field. Being at the JC will not result in losing any members nor will it stop the Bayside club strategy.


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What don't you get? We currently have 30,000 member, our highest ever was 40,000, we want 50,000, yes people will jump back on board, lets say 10,000 do, but where do the rest come from? Im saying you will get more chance down the peninsula way than the city way!

 

[felsty]

This is great. I'm an Urban Masters student doing a thesis on regional job opportunity and agglomeration economies and it's exactly what all this is about... The way I see it there are positives and negatives for both. The way I see it though, and I have said before, if we did move to JO then StKilda aren't just going to forget and lose out on all the memberships and supporters back in Seaford and the Mornington Peninsula. What does our strategic plan say?

 

[Curious George]

You know what, you & I can argue all we want about the positives & negatives of Seaford v the Junction & it makes not a pinch of difference.
Smarter men than both of us will make the decision & one of us will be able to tell the other "see I knew better".

Go Saints!

True that!!

 

[Ice-Wolf]

I tend to think that Frankston is underrated, and a pretty nice spot.
In the old days Graham Kennedy was quite happy to tell the world he had a house in Frankston.( No not mount Eliza ) .
However I did by the worst cup of coffee in my recent memory there.

Oliver's Hill has some of the most expensive real estate in Melbourne.

If I was the club I'd be trying to buy up the land north of Frankston Oval and putting the training facility there. Right in the heart of Frankston. I'd also try and buy up one of the pubs on the corner of Nepean Highway and make it the clubs new social club.

 

[sauce_head]

You know what, you & I can argue all we want about the positives & negatives of Seaford v the Junction & it makes not a pinch of difference.
Smarter men than both of us will make the decision & one of us will be able to tell the other "see I knew better".

Go Saints!

Smart men and the saints board have not been synonymous lately? But let's keep it civil fellas, me included.

I don't subscribe to the 100s of regional centre model. But even if I did they are generally distributed around the city, which is the biggest centre in AFL (yes I conceded greater population to the east). Therefore, have a centre that is near the city (perhaps slightly SE to service bayside ) and service them all and allow sponsors to feel they are getting a return on a club that takes itself and profile seriously.

Anyway, that's me. I am going to swing over to the game day thread where we can all agree we hate Adelaide and then argue after the game!

 

[Q TRAIN]

Exactly, some people just don't like change! At the end of the day the club is bigger that the player!

Exactly.
So if the Club decides its a good idea to go to the Junction then it should be supported by ALL supporters. Ditto if we decide to stay at Seaford.
Its not a home ground we are talking about its just a Training Facility.
A very small percentage of Saints Supporters go to a training facility regularly anyway .
As long as our players have good facilities who gives a rats tossbag where it is.

 

[Persevering Saint]

The original article stated the State Government was prepared to look at tenants etc to take over Seaford from St Kilda. By its very nature, if we were going to Junction Oval, it would be with no long term commitments or obligations at Seaford.

Some people see the fact that the AFL, Cricket VFL and the State Government other agendas, as the stumbling block in the deal. But do you think that GWS and the Suns are laying awake at night with their good fortune in grounds, training facilities and lists full of first round picks? The AFL had an agenda other than wanting to please the teams seeking inclusion in the AFL, but to their respective good fortune, the Suns and GWS were able to leverage this into substantial benefit for us.

This could be our time feeding at the trough. We have to endure the slings of all who are envious of our deal and accompanying facilities, but stiff, we have funded the rest of the competition for far too long.

Exactly, Sunny. What's that old Nixon line, "If you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow."

Well, I am tired of other parties - Kingston Council, Frankston Council, the AFL, etc, etc - making us the nasty side of that equation. We've got all the rest of them by the short-and-curlies. Time to make the most of it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Smart men and the saints board have not been synonymous lately? But let's keep it civil fellas, me included.

I don't subscribe to the 100s of regional centre model. But even if I did they are generally distributed around the city, which is the biggest centre in AFL (yes I conceded greater population to the east). Therefore, have a centre that is near the city (perhaps slightly SE to service bayside ) and service them all and allow sponsors to feel they are getting a return on a club that takes itself and profile seriously.



Anyway, that's me. I am going to swing over to the game day thread where we can all agree we hate Adelaide and then argue after the game!

I grew up in Latrobe Valley. Some time around 1968 I decided to barrack for StKilda ( I think a much wiser and older (7YO) next door influenced me ).
I think I was in my teens before I ever got to go to Moorabbin. I remember more games at Waverly.
Can someone analyse all this and tell me what we are talking about here?

 

[ike2112]

If we don't end up with a better sports training facility than we currently have and increased admin space (including room for future expansion) then I don't think it should happen.

Couldn't agree more, that our criteria ought to be that it's made a real home.
For all the arguing here over whether it's better to travel to Junction or Seaford, the key thing is what facility is provided and what use/control of it we have.

I don't believe there's massive room at Junction for development, and I believe what is built will be with cricket in mind. If it's to be a state-of-the-art home for cricket, it will be focused on that. Admin offices will be for cricket predominantly. There'll be god-knows how many nets to get set aside outdoor and some indoor. There is no real reason to develop at all the 2nd Oval, which is what Saints would use.

There is loads involved in a sports club. In my experience the players for example when injured will more or less live there. If you've a short-term injury for example, your day might consist of;
8am - treatment room
9am - team meeting/film session for pre-practice
9.45 - basic team practice
10.20 - ditch out of 'team' to do separate rehab on track
10.50 - head inside for pool-based rehab exercises with physio
11.30 - ultrasound
12.00 - lunch with team
13.00 - film of day's practice
13.45 - strategy meeting for this week's game
14.00 - follow-up meeting with Dr before leaving for the day
14.20 - go speak to Jen in events about the thing you've to attend next Thursday
14.40 - go down to the club shop to sign 5 jerseys for a prize draw
15.00 - go home

You need all the facilities referenced above - classrooms for film, catering for meals, all the indoor and outdoor training facilities and equipment, all of the rehab equipment from an indoor track, to a pool, to ultrasound machines etc, you want the admin all in one place, ideally all the fan-drawing stuff in the same place (e.g. shop).

Instead I worry we'll have:

Ettihad - home games
Moorabbin - 30% of admin, and VFL side play there (and redevelopment potentially hindered and/or budget slashed as cash instead goes to Junction).
Junction - Saints train on the kiddie oval, no other functions (i.e. like a member of the public hiring a field at a sports centre)
Seaford - rehab equipment, less-used training equipment/facilities, 70% of admin

That's just a mess.

 

[boydie]

Think it comes down to this.....

- Will JO cost us nothing or not much? This includes things like corporate/admin wages, which may increase as well as our costs as I couldnt see the Angels heading into StKilda everyday to make the players lunches etc like the volunteers do now. That is one benefit of the saints being down in Seaford, staff/volunteers can live in more reasonably priced area!

- What will Moorabbin cost to develop and is there a possibility we can make Moorabbin good enough to play a couple home games there? If so this is JACKPOT! Long shot, but having the ability to play 2-5 home games at Moorabbin for example would far outweigh the benefit of moving our training and admin to JO.

 

[Q TRAIN]

Think it comes down to this.....

- Will JO cost us nothing or not much? This includes things like corporate/admin wages, which may increase as well as our costs as I couldnt see the Angels heading into StKilda everyday to make the players lunches etc like the volunteers do now. That is one benefit of the saints being down in Seaford, staff/volunteers can live in more reasonably priced area!

- What will Moorabbin cost to develop and is there a possibility we can make Moorabbin good enough to play a couple home games there? If so this is JACKPOT! Long shot, but having the ability to play 2-5 home games at Moorabbin for example would far outweigh the benefit of moving our training and admin to JO.

Besides from maybe a intra club practice match the Saints will NEVER play a game at Moorabbin again. Those days are long gone.

 

[VDS66]

Its got absolutely nothing to do with members or supporters.

Ask yourself why Westpac pay Collingwood a packet to have their name plastered all over their Swan St HQ? Why Jeep have their logo in yellow & black in 3 metre font on Richmond's new HQ on Punt Rd?

Exposure.

Compare the piffling number of cars that travel past Seaford compared to how many go past Punt Rd Oval every day.

St Kilda junction is hugely busy & the opportunity to have a sponsor's logo front & centre is something that St Kilda has never had in the modern era.

As for Seaford automatically generating memberships, its a ridiculous concept. Everyone knows that most of Frankston barracks for Collingwood

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So how do you explain the correlation between Hawks massive members and the fact that their home is tucked away in a residential estate?

No disrespect but I have to have a chuckle when I hear some of the baseless assumptions made about marketing etc on here.

Your example has more to do with exposure for the sponsors than generating members. Richmond and the filth have prime advertising exposure that they can rent out. That's why the billboards on the corner of Punt Rd and Brunton Ave are the most expensive to rent. In other words they get more eyeballs to see them.

If what you say is correct then both clubs would be better served by having their club emblems plastered everywhere instead and therefore grow their memberships because more people see those emblems.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Besides from maybe a intra club practice match the Saints will NEVER play a game at Moorabbin again. Those days are long gone.

My understanding is that they are "downsizing" the ground. ( from a spectator point of view ).
Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[God Save Max King]

Think it comes down to this.....

- Will JO cost us nothing or not much? This includes things like corporate/admin wages, which may increase as well as our costs as I couldnt see the Angels heading into StKilda everyday to make the players lunches etc like the volunteers do now. That is one benefit of the saints being down in Seaford, staff/volunteers can live in more reasonably priced area!

- What will Moorabbin cost to develop and is there a possibility we can make Moorabbin good enough to play a couple home games there? If so this is JACKPOT! Long shot, but having the ability to play 2-5 home games at Moorabbin for example would far outweigh the benefit of moving our training and admin to JO.

Just give us COLA

 

[Sunshine Saint]

For what its worth, Google Maps has the Junction Oval 26 minutes closer to me on the Sunshine Coast than Seaford. Good to see them investigating moving closer to northern supporters.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

For what its worth, Google Maps has the Junction Oval 26 minutes closer to me on the Sunshine Coast than Seaford. Good to see them investigating moving closer to northern supporters.

You'll find that factoring in traffic seaford is quicker.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

For what its worth, Google Maps has the Junction Oval 26 minutes closer to me on the Sunshine Coast than Seaford. Good to see them investigating moving closer to northern supporters.

You can go by tram, after you get the bus from the airport

 

[boydie]

Besides from maybe a intra club practice match the Saints will NEVER play a game at Moorabbin again. Those days are long gone.

I know but it is good to dream!!!
Would be AWESOME to have our own Simmonds stadium like Geelong and make piles of money on AFL and VFL games!

 

[Persevering Saint]

I know but it is good to dream!!!
Would be AWESOME to have our own Simmonds stadium like Geelong and make piles of money on AFL and VFL games!

The more likely scenario would be that, if CV are somehow able to turn the Junction into a 20,000 seater (or more), that's good enough for their Big-Bash games. If so, then we might be able to have a couple of low attendance games there (Giants, etc). But even that would be pretty miraculous if it happened. The idea of Moorabbin getting games again is even more impossible.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

So how do you explain the correlation between Hawks massive members and the fact that their home is tucked away in a residential estate?

No disrespect but I have to have a chuckle when I hear some of the baseless assumptions made about marketing etc on here.

Your example has more to do with exposure for the sponsors than generating members. Richmond and the filth have prime advertising exposure that they can rent out. That's why the billboards on the corner of Punt Rd and Brunton Ave are the most expensive to rent. In other words they get more eyeballs to see them.

If what you say is correct then both clubs would be better served by having their club emblems plastered everywhere instead and therefore grow their memberships because more people see those emblems.

Hawthorn's membership didnt explode just because of where they trained. It was due to their admin having a strategic plan to engage all people in the St East growth corridor. StK are 10 years behind but have finally identified bayside & peninsula as their target market.

My comments that you have misconstrued were in response to posts about how the JC would attract more supporters for training, etc and how that could translate into members



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[SaintsSeptember]

I can only assume that someone who buys a footy club membership, because they drive past a sign on the clubhouse everyday, must buy huge amounts of Viagra every time they check their email.

 

[gringo2011]

We are never going to be able to set Moorabin up as a playing venue . VFL might get played there but it needs heaps spent on it just to get it up to that. seaford was undersizes when built and has issues with parking, public facilities and is unpopular with the older players and the general public.

junction oval is being looked at because the AFL, state government and CV are looking at moving cricket games away from the MCG so that footy isn't held back for games with 200 people attending. We could walk in on a deal that saw us given the use of an elite training facility that rivals collingwoods for nothing. It is in a brilliant spot to grab attention from sponsors and looks grown up. Seaford reminds me of a granny flat out the back of mums house, junction is an inner city apartment in comparison. Luke Ball said when he toured the Lexus centre he was amazed at the difference between what he was used to with us.

If we could get in on the deal it has so many positives it's a no brainer. Moorabin is great for memories but is already to far removed from what it was to ever see the investment going back in there. Junction has the ability to be set up as a cricket venue for state level games. If there was ever a chance of an inner city oval being used for low crowds it would be JO or Princess Park which still has a fairly good infrastructure.

 

[Dopey BJ]

Hawthorn's membership didnt explode just because of where they trained. It was due to their admin having a strategic plan to engage all people in the St East growth corridor. StK are 10 years behind but have finally identified bayside & peninsula as their target market.

My comments that you have misconstrued were in response to posts about how the JC would attract more supporters for training, etc and how that could translate into members



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The engagement of fans and all that crap has been overplayed, their membership grew because of premierships in the 80's & 90's it's really that simple.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

The engagement of fans and all that crap has been overplayed, their membership grew because of premierships in the 80's & 90's it's really that simple.

Yes & no. Their memberships went through the roof when they poached David Friend off us circa 2005. He was one of the first to understand that you need to provide great service to members, not just take their cash & ignore them.

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[VDS66]

Hawthorn's membership didnt explode just because of where they trained. It was due to their admin having a strategic plan to engage all people in the St East growth corridor. StK are 10 years behind but have finally identified bayside & peninsula as their target market.

My comments that you have misconstrued were in response to posts about how the JC would attract more supporters for training, etc and how that could translate into members



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Ok, so there are those words again: That could.. no concrete basis for this theory. And would we get more at training? People are so busy these days... I can only get to 5 games if I am lucky this year.

Hell, I am all for it if a proper feasibility study concludes that it's the right move. At this stage, all I am seeing are assumptions.

It's all speculation. If the Hawks had a great plan... then why can we not do something similar at Seaford? why would we need to move?

You have to weigh it all up.

Having a shop on a busy street corner may help, but it won't if people are not interested in your product. JUst look at Docklands. You would think that it has a huge untapped populace... but the reality that a great majority of residents are foreign students who don't understand footy. Just saying.