Sando: where is he at?

The Sloane Ranger

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I think this obsession with fitness by so many is laughable. If there is one thing we have always been known for it is our fitness. In saying that, if there are 2 things weve been known for over the past 10-15 years, it is our horrendous skill level, especially by foot.
I watched 2 games on the weekend which prove my point. The first being the Hawthorn game, in which the Hawks looked like they ran at three quarter pace for the most part, and could surely afford to. Why? Because they have supreme confidence in their ability to find a moving target and/or to put the ball into advantageous space. How does a team get this way? Well first they recruit guys based on skill level and not combine harvest results. Next they DRILL,DRILL,DRILL with ball in hand until it becomes so second nature that they hit targets even when they shank the bloody thing. A result of this being the ability to beef up the size of their men and then apply a gameplan accordingly.

Think of the last coach we had that followed this ideal???

Second was the "super-fit" Power game, in which their skill level let them down in a big way all game, exemplified by Hartletts turnover in the dying minutes. Bad ball use spreads like a nasty rash, and when you see teammates like Hartlett, Polec, Monfries, Boak make multiple clangers over the coarse, that s**t spreads like subliminal herpies.

Fitness will never account for shocking skill level. This is a flaw in coaching/recruiting philosiphy. To base a gameplan on high possesion when you have a low skill levelled team is utter stupidity and the height of arrogance.

Ask yourselves why we did o.k in 2012? Cos we got the pig skin, we kicked the pig skin as long down the line as we could then we went rabid in our follow up chase of the pig skin. This game plan worked for near 100 years before we all tried to turn Aussie rules into a friggen science.

Meh.

Fitness does impact skill level, the keel if fatigue impacts both decision naming and skill execution and you don't need to have played the game at an elite level to give testimony to this
 

The Sloane Ranger

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I can't believe players are coming out this week saying 1. We must be more ruthless, and 2. We must protect Danger. FFS this must be a part of our footy DNA

Watching the Swans game replay I also lost count at the amount if times players like Kennedy and McGlynn at every contest just pushed and shoved our players and we did nothing and I do mean nothing not even a reaction push back

I hate this nice guy image of the club, team and players and it needs to change at all levels of the club from our Administrators, our Coaches in particular Sando and the players

FFS stand up and grow some
 
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Indeed. We must be actively insisting or group don't play that way.
Shits me to ******* tears.
Gotta be top down as well. Dasher and Bicks never played that way.
We have to have change from the top down. Recruiting, expectations of on field demeanor etc are all heavily impacted by admin expectations. And all heavily impact the footy we play.
 

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I think this obsession with fitness by so many is laughable. If there is one thing we have always been known for it is our fitness. In saying that, if there are 2 things weve been known for over the past 10-15 years, it is our horrendous skill level, especially by foot.
I watched 2 games on the weekend which prove my point. The first being the Hawthorn game, in which the Hawks looked like they ran at three quarter pace for the most part, and could surely afford to. Why? Because they have supreme confidence in their ability to find a moving target and/or to put the ball into advantageous space. How does a team get this way? Well first they recruit guys based on skill level and not combine harvest results. Next they DRILL,DRILL,DRILL with ball in hand until it becomes so second nature that they hit targets even when they shank the bloody thing. A result of this being the ability to beef up the size of their men and then apply a gameplan accordingly.

Think of the last coach we had that followed this ideal???

Second was the "super-fit" Power game, in which their skill level let them down in a big way all game, exemplified by Hartletts turnover in the dying minutes. Bad ball use spreads like a nasty rash, and when you see teammates like Hartlett, Polec, Monfries, Boak make multiple clangers over the coarse, that s**t spreads like subliminal herpies.

Fitness will never account for shocking skill level. This is a flaw in coaching/recruiting philosiphy. To base a gameplan on high possesion when you have a low skill levelled team is utter stupidity and the height of arrogance.

Ask yourselves why we did o.k in 2012? Cos we got the pig skin, we kicked the pig skin as long down the line as we could then we went rabid in our follow up chase of the pig skin. This game plan worked for near 100 years before we all tried to turn Aussie rules into a friggen science.

Meh.

You are absolutely spot on in saying that the Crows' skill level is shocking, and that it's impacting on games; no question about it. And it needs to be addressed, bigtime. Since we've got such a horrendous case of the fumbles, both by hand and by foot....for the time being we need to start slamming the ball on the boot a heck of a lot more, getting it as far down the line as we can. At least for now.

But if you look at what's been happening when the Crows players don't have the ball....they have lead in their boots. Not saying one issue is having any more impact on our performance than the other, not at all. But to say the Crows don't have any issue with foot speed on the paddock? You're not watching the same Crows games that I am. They couldn't catch a parked car at the moment.

Was listening to The Rush Hour with Roo and Ditts on Triple M recently, and one caller that called was pointing out an endless list of instances where our lack of speed is killing is - we just can't catch opponents. This is just one of many examples where this has been highlighted.

Do we need to recruit and train a higher level of skill? Absolutely. But we cannot ignore the issue of lack of foot speed in our training, but even more so with our recruiting.
 

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Do we need to recruit and train a higher level of skill? Absolutely. But we cannot ignore the issue of lack of foot speed in our training, but even more so with our recruiting.

Maybe I am looking at the term "fitness" in the wrong light. I always seem to equate it only to endurance.
From what Ive seen sofar(T.V perspective) this season, we arent moving well right from the outset. Now surely even the most slobbenly of professional footballers has the fitness base at this time of year to push hard for one single opening quarter? Nope none in this team.
I understand that fatigue impacts skill level but surely this cannot be used as reasoning when considering our movement in first and second quarters?
What comes first the chicken or the egg? Exhaustion from chasing turnovers caused by lack of cohesion and shithouse kicking/decision making or turnovers caused by lack of fitness/fatigue?
Id be more inclined to blame this on either laziness, confusion as to gameplan/structure, or just being an uninspired team low on both football smarts and confidence.
After 10-15 minutes of sustained application in each third quarter played this year, shocking skill level has been the trigger for collapse, so come 4th quarter they just drop heads and long for the shower. This is more mental fitness than anything I reckon.
Same as in Craigs last couple of seasons..I dont know, was fitness an issue under him also?

As to foot speed, I couldnt agree more with the recruitment side of things. Im just not that sure how effectively you can train a drafthorse into sprinter.

Still, even in this day and age, Id back a team of 18 Darren Jarmans or Sam Mitchells over a team of Nathan Vanberlo`s, Lewis Jettas or Brent Stantons any day of the week.

I just fear that as per usual over the years, the coaching staff in all their wisdom will flog this team with even more aerobic fitness base training (as they have meant to have done all pre-season) instead of focusing on short sharp kicking and tackling and goalkicking drills(as they should have done all preseason).


I honestly believe that Sando had part of the winning equation right in the first year, but saw us getting somewhat ragdolled by bigger, more battle hardened teams as being the only difference between us and a flag winning side..
I think his answer was the right one in that he tried to beef up his stocks,but he seemed to do it at the sacrifice of many other areas.
From here, it all went pear shaped when he neglected to realise that the teams he was basing his gameplan on consisted of players ,with whom on average, had a far higher skill level than the team currently under his command.
Once all this was realised,and on the back of a couple of key injury hiccups and a scandal or two, too much time had been lost and from there on in nothing well considered seems to have been put into effect in order to address these major issues, instead only resorting to knee-jerk yet familiar gameplans being handed down to him by Niel Craig/Triggies minions.
 
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I can't believe players are coming out this week saying 1. We must be more ruthless, and 2. We must protect Danger. FFS this must be a part of our footy DNA

Watching the Swans game replay I also lost count at the amount if times players like Kennedy and McGlynn at every contest just pushed and shoved our players and we did nothing and I do mean nothing not even a reaction push back

I hate this nice guy image of the club, team and players and it needs to change at all levels of the club from our Administrators, our Coaches in particular Sando and the players

FFS stand up and grow some

Maybe it's time for our own line in the sand game ala Hawthorn in 2004.
 
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Can some footy intellectuals explain where iam wrong in the following hypothesis

People say that the days of big lumbering FF are gone ...you have to able to run up the ground and run back ..would Lockett survive in todays game?:confused:

Who's the best side of the last 6 years ? ......Geelong

Who's the FF ......Hawkins

Is Hawkins a lumbering FF in mould of Lockett :confused: ......how is it that it still works for Geelong & no-one else?

Hypothesis

Teams run all players up to centre line to block the opposition forward zone ...leaving our forward line vacant
Opposition catch us out with solo players in their forward lines but we can't do it to other teams .....Huh???

What if we take a Tex Walker and just anchor him to the FF line ......that way we always have a go to guy ?
Ok opposition drop a player back to make it 2 on 1 against us .....doesn't that mean we have one more around the ball and in defence

Still enables us to run the ball into our forward line !

Still enables us to pinpoint passes to a leading walker ......don't care if there's a 2nd player back BUT to cover a whole 50mtr forwd zone against a leading FF is impossible to stop

Thoughts?
 

The Sloane Ranger

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Can some footy intellectuals explain where iam wrong in the following hypothesis

People say that the days of big lumbering FF are gone ...you have to able to run up the ground and run back ..would Lockett survive in todays game?:confused:

Who's the best side of the last 6 years ? ......Geelong

Who's the FF ......Hawkins

Is Hawkins a lumbering FF in mould of Lockett :confused: ......how is it that it still works for Geelong & no-one else?

Hypothesis

Teams run all players up to centre line to block the opposition forward zone ...leaving our forward line vacant
Opposition catch us out with solo players in their forward lines but we can't do it to other teams .....Huh???

What if we take a Tex Walker and just anchor him to the FF line ......that way we always have a go to guy ?
Ok opposition drop a player back to make it 2 on 1 against us .....doesn't that mean we have one more around the ball and in defence

Still enables us to run the ball into our forward line !

Still enables us to pinpoint passes to a leading walker ......don't care if there's a 2nd player back BUT to cover a whole 50mtr forwd zone against a leading FF is impossible to stop

Thoughts?

Can get away with a Lumbering key forward if 1. The player is hitting the scoreboard, 2. The player is creating scoring opportunities, and 3. There is the right types around him to provide the forward pressure
 
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Hypothesis

Teams run all players up to centre line to block the opposition forward zone ...leaving our forward line vacant
Opposition catch us out with solo players in their forward lines but we can't do it to other teams .....Huh???

What if we take a Tex Walker and just anchor him to the FF line ......that way we always have a go to guy ?
Ok opposition drop a player back to make it 2 on 1 against us .....doesn't that mean we have one more around the ball and in defence

Still enables us to run the ball into our forward line !

Still enables us to pinpoint passes to a leading walker ......don't care if there's a 2nd player back BUT to cover a whole 50mtr forwd zone against a leading FF is impossible to stop

Thoughts?

I agree. I actually think the zone running by coaches is way too over thought and coaches are too afraid to try something different because they might get thumped. Personally I would like to see Sando attack and attack hard. My idea like yours is too leave Tex at Full Forward one out. If they drop a second player in front of Tex then Eddie comes and stands next to him. If a third drops back another player comes and stands next to him. Gradually this whole space will open up our mids can swarm into and 3 players one on one will get a decent crack at it. For every defender that's pushed back keep pushing an extra player into the 50. Sometimes attack is the best form of defence and I don't think enough attacking is done in AFL now with this obsession of flooding and zoning the defence.
 
Aug 12, 2004
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I can't believe players are coming out this week saying 1. We must be more ruthless, and 2. We must protect Danger. FFS this must be a part of our footy DNA

Watching the Swans game replay I also lost count at the amount if times players like Kennedy and McGlynn at every contest just pushed and shoved our players and we did nothing and I do mean nothing not even a reaction push back

I hate this nice guy image of the club, team and players and it needs to change at all levels of the club from our Administrators, our Coaches in particular Sando and the players

FFS stand up and grow some

We are very light on in the leadership department.
 

Butts_JZZ30

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Well, 3 weeks ago before the Geelong game - the confidence was high, we were talking out self up as a top 6 side and everything was sweet.

Now, we have lost the first 3 games and we need to look at everything from club culture to removing the boot studder.

Now, I'd suggest to you to 'turn it up' as you have made this accusation that the players are having a rift with the coach without offering anything to support that claim.

As Gazey would say....Turn it up.

alex_is_on_fire

From what I understand TheMetricSystem is correct....there is a rift between Sando and some players.

Adelaide isn't exactly a small town.

Why is it so hard to believe there is a rift? Is it because you dont wish to believe it?

But, rifts happen in footy clubs all the time, it isn't the end of our or Sando's existence. These things just get brought up/become apparent when the team starts getting thrashed. I still think we have a reasonable list and are badly missing a few key players. I still think we are a finals chance.
 

alex_is_on_fire

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alex_is_on_fire

From what I understand TheMetricSystem is correct....there is a rift between Sando and some players.

Adelaide isn't exactly a small town.

Why is it so hard to believe there is a rift? Is it because you dont wish to believe it?

But, rifts happen in footy clubs all the time, it isn't the end of our or Sando's existence. These things just get brought up/become apparent when the team starts getting thrashed. I still think we have a reasonable list and are badly missing a few key players. I still think we are a finals chance.

That's the key point. They happen all the time.

However, the way it was described - it was 42 players hating Sando, they were banging on his door basically refusing to play.

But rifts, arguments, disagreements and fights happen in every group but they move on. It gets sorted out.

However, the way some were talking - the players gave an ultimatum, him it them. That didn't happen.
 
Aug 12, 2004
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How long have we been saying that for...
Since Mcleod, Ricciuto and Goodwin retired.


Its never been more evident than at the end of the third quarter on Saturday. That goal was scored because of lack of on field leadership. How we did not kill the ball from that stoppage is just beyond me.
 
Aug 17, 2004
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Been thinking about this rift thing... it comes back down to Sando's persona. Adopting a matey approach at the outset was his ultimate undoing, because it ignores the reality of his position. Hard calls (for whatever reasons) were always going to have to be made at some stage. These calls (such as the Vince trade) were always going to undermine him.

Compare him to Blight, who couldn't give a rat's tossbag whose nose he put out of joint when he got there. Now compare the amount of respect (as opposed to friendship) he garners from those at AFC who played under him. Why? Because Blighty facilitated success for them. Ultimately, that's the coaches job.

Sando appears to have come into his first stint as head coach with an assistant coach's mentality. He's a likeable bloke and you get the impression that relationships are important to him. That's great, but many nice blokes have made s**t coaches.

Sando needs to address his core purpose for being a head coach, which is to facilitate success. If he makes a few mates along the way, great, but that outcome is superfluous to his primary kpi. Unfortunately he's made his bed already and, as such, changing his focus is going to be harder than it would otherwise have been. But such is the life of a head coach, which is his chosen profession.

Sent from my luxury yacht in the Bahamas
 
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Been thinking about this rift thing... it comes back down to Sando's persona. Adopting a matey approach at the outset was his ultimate undoing, because it ignores the reality of his position. Hard calls (for whatever reasons) were always going to have to be made at some stage. These calls (such as the Vince trade) were always going to undermine him.

Compare him to Blight, who couldn't give a rat's tossbag whose nose he put out of joint when he got there. Now compare the amount of respect (as opposed to friendship) he garners from those at AFC who played under him. Why? Because Blighty facilitated success for them. Ultimately, that's the coaches job.

Sando appears to have come into his first stint as head coach with an assistant coach's mentality. He's a likeable bloke and you get the impression that relationships are important to him. That's great, but many nice blokes have made s**t coaches.

Sando needs to address his core purpose for being a head coach, which is to facilitate success. If he makes a few mates along the way, great, but that outcome is superfluous to his primary kpi. Unfortunately he's made his bed already and, as such, changing his focus is going to be harder than it would otherwise have been. But such is the life of a head coach, which is his chosen profession.

Sent from my luxury yacht in the Bahamas
Assuming of course that the whole rift thing actually exists and is anything more than a big footy nursery rhyme.
 
Aug 17, 2004
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Even if there is no rift, I think Sando's persona is not conducive to success.

Look at Geelong, they've made hard calls on club favourites in recent years, with a brand new coach at the helm, and those players still play for him.

Interesting that they picked Scott over Sando at the time, surely there's something in that.

Sent from my luxury yacht in the Bahamas
 
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Even if there is no rift, I think Sando's persona is not conducive to success.

Look at Geelong, they've made hard calls on club favourites in recent years, with a brand new coach at the helm, and those players still play for him.

Interesting that they picked Scott over Sando at the time, surely there's something in that.

Sent from my luxury yacht in the Bahamas
You do realise Hinkley was also overlooked for a couple of jobs?
 
Aug 17, 2004
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Sure, but I don't think he interviewed at Geelong (correct me if I'm wrong there).

In any case, my observation in regards to Geelong, was that they knew they needed to make hard calls, and knew that someone close to the players could not pull that off unless he had the stomach for it. It could be argued that Sando's non appointment speaks to their opinion on that point.

Sent from my luxury yacht in the Bahamas
 
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