Select an Australian Test team 1975-2015

[footyfan1978]

Most of these teams are going along the same lines.

Opener one
Opener two
Ponting
G Chappell
Border
S Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
Pace bowler
Lillee
McGrath

Yeah and rightly so I would suggest.
The pace bowler spot certainly tricky.
There are lots of worthy candidates.
I missed the best of Thommo and never saw him live before his shoulder injury.
Of the ones I did see as candidates in order of seeing them it was Rodney Hogg, Terry Alderman, Geoff Lawson, Craig McDermott, Bruce Reid, Damien Fleming, Jason Gillespie, Brett Lee, Mitchell Johnson and Ryan Harris.
Merv Hughes like Peter Siddle was a great workhorse but not really in their league when the others at their best.
Alderman and Fleming clearly the two best outswing bowlers. Flemo at times got the reverse swing too. Alderman on some of his Ashes tours to England was simply brilliant. Pity some stupid idiot in crowd attacked him and ruined his shoulder. Of the others with more pace I think Gillespie at his best was very good. McDermott bowling to Viv Richards and Greenidge in 1991 in West Indies was every bit as good as Johnson's best in recent years but like Mitch Johnson had injuries and at times his form was well below his best. At his best though a real handful. All of Hogg, McDermott and Brett Lee in their opening Tests had express pace to shake batsmen up. Geoff Lawson was a bit short of them in pace but like Ryan Harris he was a great thinking bowler with heart and skill and enough pace to bother class batsmen. Bruce Reid like Starc recently and Johnson in recent years briefly showed how dangerous a quality left arm paceman can be. Who knows how good he could have been. Did not play long enough for me to pick him over some of these others but his best was special too. Any of these guys I can understand anyone picking. I picked Thommo more on sheer terror of his absolute express pace that was before my time. However even after his shoulder injury I remember him at 60% fitness still taking on Michael Holding, Andy Roberts, Imran Khan, Joel Garner, Dennis Lillee, Richard Hadlee and Garth Le Roux in the fastest bowler comp on channel 9. Even though the camera's were recording speed times a bit different to they do now to get a reading, what stood out was he still beat all these guys in the contest and also won the most accurate of them. I've little doubt any of the best pace I saw of Lee, Hogg, McDermott or Mitch Johnson that could basically add something like 10km/h over this to what Thommo must have been around mid 70''s when this team is starting to be picked from.

 

[The Speaker]

I picked Thommo more on sheer terror of his absolute express pace that was before my time. However even after his shoulder injury I remember him at 60% fitness still taking on Michael Holding, Andy Roberts, Imran Khan, Joel Garner, Dennis Lillee, Richard Hadlee and Garth Le Roux in the fastest bowler comp on channel 9. Even though the camera's were recording speed times a bit different to they do now to get a reading, what stood out was he still beat all these guys in the contest and also won the most accurate of them. I've little doubt any of the best pace I saw of Lee, Hogg, McDermott or Mitch Johnson that could basically add something like 10km/h over this to what Thommo must have been around mid 70''s when this team is starting to be picked from.

 

[bird_man]

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
G Chappell
Border (c)
S Waugh
Gilchrist
Johnosn
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

12th Harris

For me the side picked itself, except for that 3rd quick which was a toss up between Harris and Johnson. I guess Johnson's batting got him over the line but both were great bowlers at his best. Harris unfortunate his body let him down so often as he could have been one of the all time greats. Special mention to Thommo also.

2nd XI

Taylor (c)
Langer
Boon
I Chappell
Smith
Hussey
Healy
Harris
Gillespie
Thompson
Macgill

 

[Blue1980]

- Langer
- Hayden
Could have picked Taylor for his captaincy, but rate Langer and Hayden higher as batsmen, plus they know how to bat together. Slater is a step behind Langer, while Warner could replace Langer in the years to come.
- Ponting
A given, though Boon was a fine servant.
- G Chappell
A given
- Border*
Clarke is a bit unlucky, but Border was as hard-as-nails, propping up weak Australian batting lineups in unbelievably hostile environments quite regularly.
- S Waugh
Hussey is a bit unlucky, but one cannot overlook Waugh's record. In Waugh's younger days he also bowled useful fast mediums.
- Gilchrist+
A given.
- Warne
A given.
- Gillespie
The most contentious choice of the lot. At his best Gillespie could take wickets in all conditions. He could move it both ways at express pace or just below, generate reverse swing and rarely bowled garbage. He also showed great strength to come back from serious early career injuries (but then so did Johnson). Johnson is a better batsman and fielder and provides left-arm variety, but I would select Gillespie as a bowler alone - high though Johnson's peaks were, Gillespie was simply much more reliable and bowled with McGrath for years. Reid and Harris were unlucky with injury and with more time at the top I have may have placed either here. McDermott, Alderman, Hughes and Walker were all fine servants with similar records to Johnson but I admit that Johnson's all-round capabilities would place him ahead of these guys.
- Lillee
A given.
- McGrath
A given.

This would also be my team.

Gillespie I rate very highly, and more consistent than Mitch and did it in all conditions.

Forgot McDermott, he is line ball with Gillespie. Probably a smidge ahead of Mitch due to greater consistency I think, especially from 91-95, very reliable.

Merv deserves to be in the conversation too on that level.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Merv gets no respect; bowled himself into the ground, strike rate and average equal to that of McDermott's, carried the attack for a while there.
Big Bruce Reid made it look effortless, the lanky left-armer was all class.

C. Rogers
M. Elliott
D. Jones
G. Yallop
B. Hodge
M. Wade
T. Dodemaide
P. Reiffel
S. Warne
M. Hughes
D. Fleming

12th R. Hogg

Chris Rogers lucky.

 

[JackOutback]

No love for Dean Jones or Mark Waugh in the second XIs yet.

 

[DaRick]

Merv gets no respect; bowled himself into the ground, strike rate and average equal to that of McDermott's, carried the attack for a while there.
Big Bruce Reid made it look effortless, the lanky left-armer was all class.

C. Rogers
M. Elliott
D. Jones
G. Yallop
B. Hodge
M. Wade
T. Dodemaide
P. Reiffel
S. Warne
M. Hughes
D. Fleming

12th R. Hogg

Chris Rogers lucky.

Certain theme running through this line-up.

In all seriousness though, Reiffel was a very good bowler. McGrath-lite yes, but that's still enough. Had he played Test cricket for a bit longer, I would've included him in discussions.

Dean Jones was a good batsman, but he also saved his best for dead rubbers, apparently. It's also unclear where he'd fit - at #3 I'd pick Ponting and probably Boon ahead of him, at #4 his record is impressive but he has to contend with Greg Chappell, Damien Martyn and Mark Waugh (plus he didn't play there that much) and at #5, his record is mediocre.

As for Mark Waugh, he is better than his average indicated but I'm not certain I'd take him over Damien Martyn. He had the talent to play magnificently but he reminded of Carl Hooper in that he wantonly threw away his wicket many times.

 

[Cursed Cat]

No love for Dean Jones or Mark Waugh in the second XIs yet.

never any love for Deano.

I remember the summer he came back into the one-day team, completely transformed the side with his energy and enthusiasm.
I realise we're talking about the Test team here, but for mine Australia's resurgence at Test level started on the back of improved performances at one-day level, and Jones was a big part of that (and was a very handy test batsman, too).

 

[Cursed Cat]

Certain theme running through this line-up.

In all seriousness though, Reiffel was a very good bowler. McGrath-lite yes, but that's still enough. Had he played Test cricket for a bit longer, I would've included him in discussions.

Dean Jones was a good batsman, but he also saved his best for dead rubbers, apparently. It's also unclear where he'd fit - at #3 I'd pick Ponting and probably Boon ahead of him, at #4 his record is impressive but he has to contend with Greg Chappell, Damien Martyn and Mark Waugh (plus he didn't play there that much) and at #5, his record is mediocre.

As for Mark Waugh, he is better than his average indicated but I'm not certain I'd take him over Damien Martyn. He had the talent to play magnificently but he reminded of Carl Hooper in that he wantonly threw away his wicket many times.

agree with all of that, apart from Mark Waugh/Martyn - Mark Waugh every time for mine.

 

[Blue1980]

agree with all of that, apart from Mark Waugh/Martyn - Mark Waugh every time for mine.

Pure batting Damien Martyn, but when you include Mark Waugh's fielding and bowling that may tip the balance towards him.

 

[JackOutback]

Similar players, both underrated. Might be difficult to fit both in. Maybe go with Taylor, Boon, Jones, Martyn, M. Waugh and Hussey for the second XI bats.

 

[rippersnipper]

Pure batting Damien Martyn, but when you include Mark Waugh's fielding and bowling that may tip the balance towards him.

Martyn was the most elegant batsman I've seen. Brilliant technique, especially on the back foot. Just got severely unlucky.

 

[footyfan1978]

Martyn was the most elegant batsman I've seen. Brilliant technique, especially on the back foot. Just got severely unlucky.

Not unlucky. He lost us a few close Tests earlier in his career when he choked up. I remember tailender Craig McDermott out batting him in pressure situation at SCG v South Africa. We lost partly because of Martyn. Kudos to him for turning his career around and making hey when the sun was shining after Australia had got to number one without him but it was actually guys like Mark Waugh that made us number one in world.

 

[rippersnipper]

Not unlucky. He lost us a few close Tests earlier in his career when he choked up. I remember tailender Craig McDermott out batting him in pressure situation at SCG v South Africa. We lost partly because of Martyn. Kudos to him for turning his career around and making hey when the sun was shining after Australia had got to number one without him but it was actually guys like Mark Waugh that made us number one in world.

I never saw m. Waugh play for us, or at least not that I remember. Only caught the end of Steve too.

 

[footyfan1978]

Merv gets no respect; bowled himself into the ground, strike rate and average equal to that of McDermott's, carried the attack for a while there.
Big Bruce Reid made it look effortless, the lanky left-armer was all class.

C. Rogers
M. Elliott
D. Jones
G. Yallop
B. Hodge
M. Wade
T. Dodemaide
P. Reiffel
S. Warne
M. Hughes
D. Fleming

12th R. Hogg

Chris Rogers lucky.

Shame on you. Where is Jamie Siddons, Simon O'Donnell and Ray Bright ?
Hodge and Dodemaide out. Fat stuff Merv can make way for second spinner Ray Bright.

 

[footyfan1978]

I never saw m. Waugh play for us, or at least not that I remember. Only caught the end of Steve too.

Fair enough. Was actually wondering about reading so many people downgrading Mark Waugh and wondering if they even seen all his career.
I was lucky enough to see his first innings at Adelaide oval. Simply one of best batting days I seen. Was sublime too watch. I can remember him doing things to Malcolm Marshall I never seen other batsmen do. I think those that did not see all his career simply see the stats and think those that averaged more were better. There are plenty of guys that averaged 50 I did not rate as good as him. So many of his best innings were in crucial stages of series and Australia's dethroning of West Indies and keeping sides like South Africa at bay later on. Also never seen a better fielder in terms of catching the ball.

 

[rippersnipper]

Fair enough. Was actually wondering about reading so many people downgrading Mark Waugh and wondering if they even seen all his career.
I was lucky enough to see his first innings at Adelaide oval. Simply one of best batting days I seen. Was sublime too watch. I can remember him doing things to Malcolm Marshall I never seen other batsmen do. I think those that did not see all his career simply see the stats and think those the averaged more were better. There are plenty of guys that averaged 50 I did not rate as good as him. So many of his best innings were in crucial stages of series and Australia's dethroning of West Indies and keeping sides like South Africa at bay later on. Also never seen a better fielder in terms of catching the ball.

I don't rate Joe root, or not at least asmuch asmost people and he averages 54. Averages are handy but they aren't everything. Reckon punter comes close in the catching stakes, although he was more of a run out guy tbf.

 

[eth-dog]

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
G Chappell
Border (c)
Waugh
Gilchrist (+)
Warne
Lee
Lillee
McGrath

Second XI:

Taylor (c)
Warner
I Chappell
M Waugh
Clarke
Hussey
Marsh (+)
Johnson
Gillespie
McDermott
MacGill

 

[Cursed Cat]

Shame on you. Where is Jamie Siddons, Simon O'Donnell and Ray Bright ?
Hodge and Dodemaide out. Fat stuff Merv can make way for second spinner Ray Bright.

Couldn't fit them all into the team but in all seriousness would definitely have Dodemaide ahead of O'Donnell (not for the 50-over game, obviously).
His (Dodemaide's) debut was a memorable one, he had a decent summer that year, and on reflection was probably unlucky to lose his spot so quickly - I'd like to see how Dodemaide vs. O'Donnell's records stack up at state level, Dodemaide gave a lot for a long time; very handy performer. I know O'Donnell was captain for a fair while, but my memory is that he took his time to live up to his potential, even at state level.

Siddons could have possibly gone top of the order ahead of the Interloper ... Paul Hibbert or Dav Whatmore actually represented their country (actually I think Dav was born in Sri Lanka, but definitely an honourary Victorian).

Dimattina unlucky against another ring-in (actually was Wade originally a Vic before moving to Tas, then back again? not sure) ..

 

[JackOutback]

Not unlucky. He lost us a few close Tests earlier in his career when he choked up. I remember tailender Craig McDermott out batting him in pressure situation at SCG v South Africa. We lost partly because of Martyn. Kudos to him for turning his career around and making hey when the sun was shining after Australia had got to number one without him but it was actually guys like Mark Waugh that made us number one in world.

Martyn didn't lose us that Test, the whole team failed and was bowled out for a touch over 100, if I recall. Martyn was simply made the scapegoat and unfortunately it derailed his career for several years. But he was eventually able to fight back and force his way into the strongest batting line-you the world. A genuine talent.

 

[footyfan1978]

Martyn didn't lose us that Test, the whole team failed and was bowled out for a touch over 100, if I recall. Martyn was simply made the scapegoat and unfortunately it derailed his career for several years. But he was eventually able to fight back and force his way into the strongest batting line-you the world. A genuine talent.

You are being way to kind to him. He lost us that Test. He was last recognized batsmen in with tailenders. He should have got us home. Other batsmen got us in trouble but there comes a time it is your turn to say, if it is to be, it is up to me. He failed that Test at a time his team and own career needed him to stand up. It is why he was out of team for so long. As I said kudos to him for turning his career around years later but before we got to number one he was not helping us become number one. That is the truth.

 

[footyfan1978]

Couldn't fit them all into the team but in all seriousness would definitely have Dodemaide ahead of O'Donnell (not for the 50-over game, obviously).
His (Dodemaide's) debut was a memorable one, he had a decent summer that year, and on reflection was probably unlucky to lose his spot so quickly - I'd like to see how Dodemaide vs. O'Donnell's records stack up at state level, Dodemaide gave a lot for a long time; very handy performer. I know O'Donnell was captain for a fair while, but my memory is that he took his time to live up to his potential, even at state level.

Siddons could have possibly gone top of the order ahead of the Interloper ... Paul Hibbert or Dav Whatmore actually represented their country (actually I think Dav was born in Sri Lanka, but definitely an honourary Victorian).

Dimattina unlucky against another ring-in (actually was Wade originally a Vic before moving to Tas, then back again? not sure) ..

He he. Yes to most of that. Actually pretty sure Wade would be a Taswegian like his cousin Howe. Maybe chuck him out for Chuck Berry.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

He he. Yes to most of that. Actually pretty sure Wade would be a Taswegian like his cousin Howe. Maybe chuck him out for Chuck Berry.

You Vics are welcome to Wade, especially if you're going to use him as a keeper. Just a pity you didn't take his father. Tasmanian footy might be only in a bad way instead of on its deathbed if you had.

 

[Van_Dyke]

You are being way to kind to him. He lost us that Test. He was last recognized batsmen in with tailenders. He should have got us home. Other batsmen got us in trouble but there comes a time it is your turn to say, if it is to be, it is up to me. He failed that Test at a time his team and own career needed him to stand up. It is why he was out of team for so long. As I said kudos to him for turning his career around years later but before we got to number one he was not helping us become number one. That is the truth.

Unlike theother recognised batsman, he was actually in the middle. The blame should go on those who failed to get into a position where Martyn and McDermott didn't need to do what they did. Sure, Martyn should have some blame but everyone else were the ones who lost us the test.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

I always find it weird when one player is blamed for losing a match especially a test match. How do other players who may have done worse than them get a such a free pass for for five days of cricket?