Senior Labor figure in rape probe

[Power Raid]

Hardly, there's been some dodgy dealings over the past couple of years from Abbott et al that have barely raised an eyebrow. You need to get over this "ABC is a Labor mouthpiece" myth.

I don't see it as a murdoch, fairfax or abc issue specifically. I think it is says more about our society and culture.

This type of elect them then crucify them mentality has been in the north american (canda including) culture than it has been here but it is now well and truly Australian now too.

May be it is a result of how we are fed media, may be it is because of the rise of lobby and interest groups and may be it is because of the internet. Who knows, but I bet it is more about our culture than media or the politicians.


The result is:
- a faster turn over of governments
- government responds by managing themselves as a one term government and trying and do everything in 5 minutes. We saw this with Labor and they f'd up every policy they tried to implement (even the really good ones).
- good candidates for government won't bother trying as it becomes a mug sport

It is too hard to change the world or the Australian culture. Thus the only way to fix this trend is to move toward 5 year terms and having set times for media to engage each week with government and opposition rather than the 14 second media frenzy that we have become use to.

I am also very much in favour of voters having to pass a political issues test before voting. Voting should be based on an informed decision and not emotion or blind faith.

 

[midorigreenwood]

If Tony found himself in the same in the same situation, I dare say their would be a lot of hysteria about his religion, family and character.

Fairfax went after Abbott when it was allegations of him punching the wall/at a woman years after it was newsworthy so its a fair argument about double standards.

 

[Power Raid]

Fairfax went after Abbott when it was allegations of him punching the wall/at a woman years after it was newsworthy so its a fair argument about double standards.

In the media's defence the difference between the allegations is the seriousness of the nature

- Tony's was an allegation of anger and threatening to punch (if I recall correctly)
- whilst Bill's is an allegation of rape

Although, I believe, Bill has no case to answer the media need to ensure it doesn't prejudice the case.

 

[BORK]

Historical matters make up a fair number of current sex offence prosecutions. There are plenty floating around from the 80s and quite a bit earlier. There was at least one in recent years from the 50s.

Was trying to find a way to imply the politicians initials without getting carded before it came out via that Kangaroo Court site.

 

[Donners]

Not according to court.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/story-shame-for-the-age/story-e6frfhqf-1225898683702

Sure, but court outcomes and truth don't necessarily match up. Sex offences have notoriously low prosecution and conviction rates, and that is dramatically increased where it comes to high-profile accused.

There is one high-profile figure who has had no less than three distinct, completely unrelated rape allegations made against him, with substantial support for a couple of them, yet has never been convicted. A number of footballers have reached settlements with people without ever going to court. Had they been regular people, the story could have been quite different.

 

[samFFC]

I don't see it as a murdoch, fairfax or abc issue specifically. I think it is says more about our society and culture.

This type of elect them then crucify them mentality has been in the north american (canda including) culture than it has been here but it is now well and truly Australian now too.

May be it is a result of how we are fed media, may be it is because of the rise of lobby and interest groups and may be it is because of the internet. Who knows, but I bet it is more about our culture than media or the politicians.


The result is:
- a faster turn over of governments
- government responds by managing themselves as a one term government and trying and do everything in 5 minutes. We saw this with Labor and they f'd up every policy they tried to implement (even the really good ones).
- good candidates for government won't bother trying as it becomes a mug sport

It is too hard to change the world or the Australian culture. Thus the only way to fix this trend is to move toward 5 year terms and having set times for media to engage each week with government and opposition rather than the 14 second media frenzy that we have become use to.

I am also very much in favour of voters having to pass a political issues test before voting. Voting should be based on an informed decision and not emotion or blind faith.

Agree with everything you say except the last part.

A. Voluntary voting won't help the situation. Countries of all sorts, voluntary and compulsory all have issues. It's societal, not the voting system.
B. who sets your test?
C. Once the test is set, I would reckon more than 50% of the population would fail.


Otherwise agree with you 100%.

 

[Power Raid]

Agree with everything you say except the last part.

A. Voluntary voting won't help the situation. Countries of all sorts, voluntary and compulsory all have issues. It's societal, not the voting system.
B. who sets your test?
C. Once the test is set, I would reckon more than 50% of the population would fail.


Otherwise agree with you 100%.

A) fair point and your right especially if you use the example of the US.

However there are only 31 countries with compulsory voting and only busted arse nations enforce to law with the exception of Australia and Singapore. That means we are in the same league as the DRC!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting



B) Who sets the test? The person you are voting for would simply write 100 questions and answers of which the electoral system would randomly pick 10 questions electronically. You answer the questions to the person you are voting for and without knowing your result vote. The system then excludes those voters who didn't pass. That way there is no embarrassment for the failures and they aren't discouraged from trying next time.

Most importantly on the electronic voting system you vote for a person without any reference to which party they represent. This is more akin to the Swiss model.




C. I think in informed vote is valuable and an uninformed vote eats away at the fabric of democracy.

 

[samFFC]

A) fair point and your right especially if you use the example of the US.

However there are only 31 countries with compulsory voting and only busted arse nations enforce to law with the exception of Australia and Singapore. That means we are in the same league as the DRC!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting

This may be true, but I honestly see this as another way for Australia to lead the world (as with many health technologies and recently cigarette plain packaging). We will be vindicated in time.

B) Who sets the test? The person you are voting for would simply write 100 questions and answers of which the electoral system would randomly pick 10 questions electronically. You answer the questions to the person you are voting for and without knowing your result vote. The system then excludes those voters who didn't pass. That way there is no embarrassment for the failures and they aren't discouraged from trying next time.

Most importantly on the electronic voting system you vote for a person without any reference to which party they represent. This is more akin to the Swiss model.

That's an interesting idea haha. Don't like the idea of voluntary voting, but this is intriguing.

C. I think in informed vote is valuable and an uninformed vote eats away at the fabric of democracy.

I agree. But I raise you the following:
-no person can be informed on ALL election issues and policies
-no person can be completely informed on any particular policy. We can't all get Departmental briefings like Ministers. What is "informed" and what is "uninformed", where is the line?

And finally, voluntary voting does not ensure all votes are "informed". Instead, it encourages those who have a direct interest in a particular policy/set of policies to vote, and does not encourage disenfranchised and disadvantaged populations to vote. Rather, enforcing compulsory voting means all people in society are forced to take a position at each election, whether that be Labor, Liberal, minor party or none of the above. No vote can be taken for granted, and all votes need to be worked for.

Whilst uninformed votes do eat away at the fabric of democracy, I think this is a far lesser evil than having a 40-60% turnout on election day. In my personal opinion. I love compulsory voting haha. Perhaps this is a debate for a separate thread!

 

[BORK]

"Rational ignorance".

 

[tandino]

Sure, but court outcomes and truth don't necessarily match up. Sex offences have notoriously low prosecution and conviction rates, and that is dramatically increased where it comes to high-profile accused.

Notwithstanding other situations in other cases, I'm not going to second-guess the magistrate in this matter.

 

[Todman]

- government responds by managing themselves as a one term government and trying and do everything in 5 minutes. We saw this with Labor and they f'd up every policy they tried to implement (even the really good ones).
- good candidates for government won't bother trying as it becomes a mug sport

It is too hard to change the world or the Australian culture. Thus the only way to fix this trend is to move toward 5 year terms

If we went to 5 years terms then we could have been stuck with Rudd for another 2 years and Abbott will have 10 yearswithout no contest.

 

[Power Raid]

If we went to 5 years terms then we could have been stuck with Rudd for another 2 years and Abbott will have 10 yearswithout no contest.

that is what the GG is for!

Jokes aside, I am not sure if Rudd, Gillard or Abbott would leaders if we had a system that attracted proper leader.

I would also hope we could limit the power of government. We have already separated monetary policy from government (the RBA). I would hope we could desperate the revenue side of fiscal policy and budget from government so all they get to do is divide the pie.

Lastly, I would like the Australian government to respect our constitution and the states sovereignty at simply let the states roll out services than constantly reaching for glory themselves.

 

[PottSie2]

Hardly, there's been some dodgy dealings over the past couple of years from Abbott et al that have barely raised an eyebrow. You need to get over this "ABC is a Labor mouthpiece" myth.

You must have missed the kerfuffle in the media about Abbott allegedly punching a wall next to a feminazi 30 years ago.

 

[yibbida]

Larry Pickering has named him.

Let's say the list has been shorten.

Wow making rape allegations are ok on Big Footy but put Libtards in a post you get banned for a week.....

 

[BORK]

Wow making rape allegations are ok on Big Footy but put Libtards in a post you get banned for a week.....

The poster is not making the accusation. The woman who claims she is an alleged victim is. It is pretty obvious who was being talked about before the recent posts. Most posters likely know. It just seems that the majority are refraining from throwing mud around at this stage which is a positive.

 

[clogged]

It is pretty obvious who was being talked about before the recent posts.

Was it?

 

[midorigreenwood]

Was it?

It should have been when posters were saying its BS

but yeah I didn't even know it was a politician until it made the waves on social media and a number of forums in the last week. I just assumed it was some staffer.

 

[Todman]

I just assumed .........

Never assume
it makes an ASS out of YOU and ME.

 

[Todman]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-21/no-charges-for-labor-figure-over-alleged-rape-in-1980s/5685846

A senior figure in the Labor Party will not face criminal charges over an alleged rape dating back to the 1980s.

Victorian police have confirmed that the allegation has been investigated but they will not be proceeding with criminal charges.

"Investigating police sought advice from the Office of Public Prosecutions, which advised there was no reasonable prospect of conviction," a statement from Victoria Police said.

"All parties have been notified that Victoria Police will not be proceeding with criminal charges."

The alleged victim, who posted the claims on a Facebook page late last year, said that the sexual assault took place at a Young Labor camp near Geelong in the 1980s.

At the time the allegation became public, lawyers for the man released a statement saying the claims were "unsubstantiated" and "absolutely without foundation".

Broadcaster Neil Mitchell also revealed then that his program "had contact with the woman raising the allegations, and she made it clear she wanted to speak to police".

http://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com...l-in-1986-victorian-police-are-investigating/

 

[BORK]

That is why the leader of the opposition did not need their name placed in news articles. The mud would otherwise have unfairly stuck.

 

[Slax]

Call me synical, but when something surfaces for the first time 27 years later when the alleged offender obtain an extremely high public profile, it general says to me one of two things, either they want to destroy their career or they want money.

 

[tandino]

Good outcome.

 

[madmug]

Call me synical, but when something surfaces for the first time 27 years later when the alleged offender obtain an extremely high public profile, it general says to me one of two things, either they want to destroy their career or they want money.

Sorry you cant assume that. Too many times things come out later. people originally too afraid or feel self guilt/shame. Look at the kids molested by priests etc. Its not about money. Its about help, recognition & justice. Kids dont often know how to deal with such issues, it comes out later as teenagers & young adults. It ends in suicide more often than most people appreciate. We see then in the Hospital/medical system, its awful.

 

[Sterge]

Straight from the horses mouth

I wanted to address another matter. Late

last year I learned that a claim had been made about me, going back to when I was 19. It was made on social media when I was elected Opposition Leader. I will not go into the details, except to say that the allegation was untrue and

abhorrent. The allegation was made by someone that I knew briefly at that time. There is absolutely no basis to the claim. The claim has now been thoroughly and vigorously investigated by the police as is entirely proper. I fully cooperated to clear my name and

that is what I've done. I freely answered all the questions that the police asked of me. Now the police investigation is concluded, I can make this statement. The easy option would be to say nothing, but that is not who I am. I want to address this

myself directly. This has been deeply distressing for my family. I'm thankful for the love and support of Chloe and the support of my staff and parliamentary colleagues. Others who are aware of the investigation have acted with the utmost integrity by leaving the police to do their job.

The police have now concluded the investigation. The decision speaks for itself. It is over. I have no intention of making any further comment. I'm happy to take questions.

 

[samFFC]

Sorry you cant assume that. Too many times things come out later. people originally too afraid or feel self guilt/shame. Look at the kids molested by priests etc. Its not about money. Its about help, recognition & justice. Kids dont often know how to deal with such issues, it comes out later as teenagers & young adults. It ends in suicide more often than most people appreciate. We see then in the Hospital/medical system, its awful.

But those priests were in positions of power then, and now.

As opposed to someone rising up through the ranks, and then getting accused.

Agree with your broad point though.