Rumour *Separated discussion* Board, Mick, Rogers, whiteanting, powerbrokers, competency or lack thereof

[ShanDog]

No. You're a good poster ShanDog but people are posting opinions as fact on this topic way too often on this topic when they're miles off the mark. I know Windhover's style can s**t people at times but he's on to something here. Kind of.

Ignoring how the circumstance came about with Rogers leaving, I can't see how the club made the wrong choice to get the recruiter they wanted over someone who simply available. Better to take the hurt for one off-season than accept an inferior appointment. Unless I am missing something critical.

 

[Sin City]

Ignoring how the circumstance came about with Rogers leaving, I can't see how the club made the wrong choice to get the recruiter they wanted over someone who simply available. Better to take the hurt for one off-season than accept an inferior appointment. Unless I am missing something critical.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Ignoring how the circumstance came about with Rogers leaving, I can't see how the club made the wrong choice to get the recruiter they wanted over someone who simply available. Better to take the hurt for one off-season than accept an inferior appointment. Unless I am missing something critical.

I wouldn't worry about it ShanDog. They know that with Rogers gone there was no way of adequately replacing him from the outside for one season. That's Windhover's angle. It just happens to tie in with the 'Rogers was shafted, SOS undermined him' brigade but nobody can answer the question as to what else we should have done regardless of why Rogers is gone.

As I said, Pelchen is out of a job. Should we have gone there?

The sooner we put some years between Rogers leaving and us the sooner we can go about having some unity and some constructive conversations. No more cloak and dagger.

 

[Bic]

And now the HUN is reporting that the Tigers are after Carlisle, too.

Nah, they denied it.

I think there was a leak somewhere and the media jumped on thinking it was Richmond when in reality it was Hawthorn.

 

[Bic]

I wouldn't worry about it ShanDog. They know that with Rogers gone there was no way of adequately replacing him from the outside for one season. That's Windhover's angle. It just happens to tie in with the 'Rogers was shafted, SOS undermined him' brigade but nobody can answer the question as to what else we should have done regardless of why Rogers is gone.

As I said, Pelchen is out of a job. Should we have gone there?

The sooner we put some years between Rogers leaving and us the sooner we can go about having some unity and some constructive conversations. No more cloak and dagger.

What was Pelchen's record like?

 

[JustaBattler]

I wouldn't worry about it ShanDog. They know that with Rogers gone there was no way of adequately replacing him from the outside for one season. That's Windhover's angle. It just happens to tie in with the 'Rogers was shafted, SOS undermined him' brigade but nobody can answer the question as to what else we should have done regardless of why Rogers is gone.

As I said, Pelchen is out of a job. Should we have gone there?

The sooner we put some years between Rogers leaving and us the sooner we can go about having some unity and some constructive conversations. No more cloak and dagger.

Move all that stuff to 'that' fred.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Move all that stuff to 'that' fred.

I will.

 

[Sin City]

I wouldn't worry about it ShanDog. They know that with Rogers gone there was no way of adequately replacing him from the outside for one season. That's Windhover's angle. It just happens to tie in with the 'Rogers was shafted, SOS undermined him' brigade but nobody can answer the question as to what else we should have done regardless of why Rogers is gone.

As I said, Pelchen is out of a job. Should we have gone there?

The sooner we put some years between Rogers leaving and us the sooner we can go about having some unity and some constructive conversations. No more cloak and dagger.

Still well wide of the mark ODN

 

[Windhover]

The recruiting manager reports to the list manager anyway under our new system.

Sensible.

We still have a recruiting team. Are you telling me you know the inner workings of the club enough to know that none of those recruiters have stepped up in any way to help SOS out? Our scouts and networks are in place. SOS just sits in instead of Rogers to help make our final list.

This is a confusion of the separate responsibilities of a List Manager and a Head Recruiter. Of course our recruiting team will be helping SOS in any way they can but if not one of them has the specific responsibility to make the calls a Head Recruiter must make (i.e. SOS, if you want a ready made KPD, Astbury is your man) then "stepping up" is essentially useless. A stepped-up recruiter who says to SOS: "I really like Astbury over Plowman for a KPD because of blah, blah, blah but hey, SOS, its your call" has no responsibility.

And no, getting some out of contract former recruiter to step in to the top job for a year is pointless. We've managed a bad situation quite well to date. I'm certainly not seeing any problems that have arisen, just people trying to create problems that may not be there.

Haven't we got enough known issues to be miserable about without surmising other problems exist?

Fair enough. We go into a most important trade/drafting period without a Head Recruiter and with a newbie coach and a new List Manager. What could possibly go wrong?

Maybe it is because we have enough known issues to be miserable about that makes me hunger for transparent processes that make sense. That is the best way I know of avoiding future misery.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Still well wide of the mark ODN

Why don't you enlighten everyone instead of just taking snide digs?

 

[Sin City]

Why don't you enlighten everyone instead of just taking snide digs?

I have no need, do I?

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I have no need, do I?

Wink wink wink

Then you can tell people they're wide of the mark or complain about them having an opinion until you're blue in the face. Wink.

 

[Sin City]

Wink wink wink

Then you can tell people they're wide of the mark or complain about them having an opinion until you're blue in the face. Wink.

Thanks, but being trusted with confidential information means more to me than being loved by BigFooty posters.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Thanks, but being trusted with confidential information means more to me than being loved by BigFooty posters.

I get it. Wink.
Aren't you the same person who told a poster on here that you work for the club, but you actually don't? Or is that someone else? Wink.

 

[Sin City]

I get it. Wink.
Aren't you the same person who told a poster on here that you work for the club, but you actually don't? Or is that someone else? Wink.

I've never posted any such thing. A quick search of my posts should confirm that for you.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I've never posted any such thing. A quick search of my posts should confirm that for you.

Yeah, but I can't search your PMs, can I? Wink.

I'm bored of this conversation. Back to blumours.

 

[Sin City]

Yeah, but I can't search your PMs, can I? Wink.

I'm bored of this conversation. Back to blumours.

No, you can't. So you're still as well informed as when you entered this conversation. Good job.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

This is a confusion of the separate responsibilities of a List Manager and a Head Recruiter. Of course our recruiting team will be helping SOS in any way they can but if not one of them has the specific responsibility to make the calls a Head Recruiter must make (i.e. SOS, if you want a ready made KPD, Astbury is your man) then "stepping up" is essentially useless. A stepped-up recruiter who says to SOS: "I really like Astbury over Plowman for a KPD because of blah, blah, blah but hey, SOS, its your call" has no responsibility.

Personally, a recruiting manager shouldn't be the be all and end all of trading for established players. There main qualification is spotting junior talent and projecting development. Everybody can see what sort of player Astbury is.

It's when the List Manager takes advice from the recruiting staff about young players and makes his own captain's call instead that you have a problem. Does anybody know how hands on SOS was at GWS? Are we just assuming he has no eye for talent himself?

Fair enough. We go into a most important trade/drafting period without a Head Recruiter and with a newbie coach and a new List Manager. What could possibly go wrong?

You don't seriously think the 1800RECRUIT thing was an option do you? These professional head recruiters don't grow on trees and those out of work aren't coming on for a year only. Rogers left (regardless of why he left) and we managed the year as best we could, knowing we had someone coming at the end of 2015.

Forget the problem for a second, how about discussing what the solution should have been ... realistically.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

What was Pelchen's record like?

Some good, some bad, reputation as a bit of a dictator and he potted us earlier in the year. Wasn't a lot of love around here for him and I doubt he wanted a job here unless it was for 3 years minimum.

 

[JustaBattler]

Personally, a recruiting manager shouldn't be the be all and end all of trading for established players. There main qualification is spotting junior talent and projecting development. Everybody can see what sort of player Astbury is.

It's when the List Manager takes advice from the recruiting staff about young players and makes his own captain's call instead that you have a problem. Does anybody know how hands on SOS was at GWS? Are we just assuming he has no eye for talent himself?



You don't seriously think the 1800RECRUIT thing was an option do you? These professional head recruiters don't grow on trees and those out of work aren't coming on for a year only. Rogers left (regardless of why he left) and we managed the year as best we could, knowing we had someone coming at the end of 2015.

Forget the problem for a second, how about discussing what the solution should have been ... realistically.

patience personified.....

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Still well wide of the mark ODN

I've been told that before SC, but then someone can always get one side of a story, seldom both sides and unless they were present themselves they have just chosen their faith in a version of events.

I'm not sure that is reason enough to try to reanimate these discussions again. I can only surmise that people would have been happier with no SOS, old presidents and old ways of doing things, because alluding to stuff doesn't tell me anything else and I'm probably going to have more of an allegiance to the club than to internet posters I know less about.

All I can do is question the circular nature of every discussion regarding list management until people get over it and the club are back on their feet I guess.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

patience personified.....

Prerequisite of the role I'd say.

Halo slips from time to time.

 

[Windhover]

Personally, a recruiting manager shouldn't be the be all and end all of trading for established players. There main qualification is spotting junior talent and projecting development. Everybody can see what sort of player Astbury is.

Good point.

It's when the List Manager takes advice from the recruiting staff about young players and makes his own captain's call instead that you have a problem.

That is what I am on about right there.

You don't seriously think the 1800RECRUIT thing was an option do you?.

No, that imaginative strawman was I believe all your own work to which I thought no response was necessary.

These professional head recruiters don't grow on trees and those out of work aren't coming on for a year only. Rogers left (regardless of why he left) and we managed the year as best we could, knowing we had someone coming at the end of 2015. Forget the problem for a second, how about discussing what the solution should have been ... realistically.

Once a problem is identified (and you now do) the solution is easy. The football industry is not huge. People know people. If Hawthorn's head recruiter was seriously ill for the year (like Alan Jeans in 1989) I do not imagine they would sit on their hands and say "Oh that's okay. Who needs a head recruiter anyways?"

Why Rogers left is completely irrelevant to this discussion. He is not the only recruiter in town. Previously I argued we should only recruit a new coach for a single season and posters said: "No, you will never get anyone who is any good to agree to that," BB is now on our staff for 3 years but head coach at our pleasure. Exactly as it should be.

Likewise, if the decision was to take Brodie at the end of 2015 when he was out of contract I am happy with that. I simply do not accept that the consequence is that we do not have a Head Recruiter in 2015. Whether we had engaged someone in-house from our own recruiting staff or offered the job to an enthusiastic newbie recruiter who would be happy (like JB) to go back to a secondary role, or got a wise old head for the year, it is not believable the problem could not be solved.

And my point says NOTHING about SOS's capacity as a recruiter. It is not his role any more than it is BB's.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So essentially Windy, your problem is that someone from the back offices doesn't have the title 'Head Recruiter' against their name albeit temporarily? Doesn't matter if they are all pitching in temporarily, you want a temporary head recruiter to have total control of our decisions for a year regardless of whether it fits in with the collective direction? Is that right?