Rumour *Separated discussion* Board, Mick, Rogers, whiteanting, powerbrokers, competency or lack thereof

[ShanDog]

Care to enlighten me on what critical thing I am overlooking Sin City?

 

[Sin City]

Care to enlighten me on what critical thing I am overlooking Sin City?

Not the sort of thing I'd discuss on BigFooty and was not my intention when I replied to you. This place is great for discussions about players, match day, pre-season hopes or I guess for the really desperate ones a place they can meet members of the opposite sex. Very few posters though, get it right when making assumptions about things that happen behind the scenes and it can be damaging to individuals or the club, make us supporters look silly or just be down right disrespectful so if I see something that's factually incorrect about something where I am aware of the truth I'll just try and let people know they're off the mark and hopefully the conversation moves back to what makes this forum enjoyable.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

You forgot your wink.

 

[ShanDog]

Weak.

 

[Sin City]

You forgot your wink.

Looks like I didn't need it.

 

[Sin City]

Weak.

Weak would be to post private information in a public forum just for the benefit of BigFooty posters. Piss poor effort Shan.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Looks like I didn't need it.

Do you only use it when you're being passive aggressive as opposed to insulting?

 

[Windhover]

So essentially Windy, your problem is that someone from the back offices doesn't have the title 'Head Recruiter' against their name albeit temporarily?

It is not "my" problem, it is the Club's problem but yes, I want someone who is the Head Recruiter, not one who nominally is.

Doesn't matter if they are all pitching in temporarily, you want a temporary head recruiter to have total control of our decisions for a year regardless of whether it fits in with the collective direction? Is that right?

The job description for a Head Recruiter would not be "to have total control of our decisions for a year". This completely misunderstands the interaction that would need to take place between the Head Recruiter and the List Manager and the Coach. Ultimately a List Manager (who holds the purse strings) is responsible for the recruitment of any player.

But a Head Recruiter needs to decide, in response to a recruitment need identified by BB and prioritised and monetised by SOS, whether Player A or Player B is the better bet. Once the Head Recruiter has decided Player A is the better bet for identified prioritised need and within budget then that is the end of it. Of course BB, SOS and other recruiters could and should discuss the decision but it is NOT their decision.

I understand when St Kilda recruited McCartin over Petracca there was much discussion by the coach etc (others "pitching in" if you like). Ultimately the decision was that of the Head Recruiter. Not the coach. Not the List Manager.

In that instance as I understand it St Kilda just wanted the best player, they didn't care what position the player played in. Had Richardson said he needed more midfielders as a priority over talls or had the List Manager (if they have one) decided that a young tall was more important than a midfielder given the demographic of the list then the Head Recruiter's task would have been to chose between McCartin and another of the talls on offer, like Peter, sniff, Wright.

 

[Sin City]

Do you only use it when you're being passive aggressive as opposed to insulting?

You really should stay on topic

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Gotcha

 

[Aphrodite]

You really should stay on topic

Oops I forgot to

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Why does Windhover make football recruiting sound so complicated???

Back in the day I got a letter............may have been a Telegram.

Please turn up at the Junction Oval at 8.30am, bring shorts, boots & runners.

A light lunch will be provided, Cab-Charge will be shared.

 

[JustaBattler]

It is not "my" problem, it is the Club's problem but yes, I want someone who is the Head Recruiter, not one who nominally is.



The job description for a Head Recruiter would not be "to have total control of our decisions for a year". This completely misunderstands the interaction that would need to take place between the Head Recruiter and the List Manager and the Coach. Ultimately a List Manager (who holds the purse strings) is responsible for the recruitment of any player.

But a Head Recruiter needs to decide, in response to a recruitment need identified by BB and prioritised and monetised by SOS, whether Player A or Player B is the better bet. Once the Head Recruiter has decided Player A is the better bet for identified prioritised need and within budget then that is the end of it. Of course BB, SOS and other recruiters could and should discuss the decision but it is NOT their decision.

I understand when St Kilda recruited McCartin over Petracca there was much discussion by the coach etc (others "pitching in" if you like). Ultimately the decision was that of the Head Recruiter. Not the coach. Not the List Manager.

In that instance as I understand it St Kilda just wanted the best player, they didn't care what position the player played in. Had Richardson said he needed more midfielders as a priority over talls or had the List Manager (if they have one) decided that a young tall was more important than a midfielder given the demographic of the list then the Head Recruiter's task would have been to chose between McCartin and another of the talls on offer, like Peter, sniff, Wright.

Windhover- seriously mate - give it a rest - for a rational bloke you are sprouting nonsense about the issue of a title...
The Club has just announced an industry wide respected person to take over the job of head recruiter..he starts as soon as he quite rightly finishes his duties at GWS - what a gentleman he must be...

and don't kid yourself the coach and his staff aren't hugely involved in who they would like and what type they would like and who they suggest may be gettable...

just look at the wide spread of coaches from a number of different Clubs we have appointed and have started - and you should appreciate that Carlton is a in a much better position to analyse and concoct what the Club thinks it needs and where it may get it from..

really don't understand your angst over this short term absence - not at all.

oh unless you are implying that SOS chosen recruiter to come is a bad sign - if so just say it man dont beat around the bush - there are enough 'insiders' who aren't, posting on here already.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Carlton
GM - List Management and Strategy Stephen Silvagni
Recruiting Officer Glenn Elliott
Recruiting Officer Dale Harris
Recruiting Officer Michael Jordan

Let's just look at what some other clubs have in the way of list management and recruiting:

Hawthorn
Graham Wright - Recruiting and List Manager
Dale Bleach - Recruiting Manager Pro Scout
Mark McKenzie - Recruiting and Special Projects Manager
Geoff Morris - Recruiting Manager - West

GWS
Paul Brodie - Scout
Phil Scully - Scout

Collingwood
Derek Hine - General Manager of List Management
Matthew Rendell - Senior National Recruiting Assistant
Dominic Milesi - National Recruiting Assistant
Adam Shepard - National Recruiting Assistant

North
National Recruiting Manager Bryce Lewis
Recruiting Officer Andrew Carson
Recruiting Assistant Ben Birthisel

Essendon
Adrian Dodoro - List and Recruiting Manager
Merve Keane - Senior Recruiting Coordinator
Rob Forster-Knight - Recruiting Officer
Mark Micallef - Recruiting Analyst

Can't be stuffed looking through the rest, but we get the picture. It's not as though nobody else has a List Manager doubling as a Recruiting Manager and it's not as though we are running with a skeleton recruiting team.

 

[ShanDog]

Weak would be to post private information in a public forum just for the benefit of BigFooty posters. Piss poor effort Shan.

Nah Id tell you what's weak... But it could be damaging to individuals, make them look silly or just be down right disrespectful so if I see something that's weak that I am aware of, I'll just try and let people know and hopefully the conversation moves back to what makes this forum enjoyable.

 

[ShanDog]

Carlton
GM - List Management and Strategy Stephen Silvagni
Recruiting Officer Glenn Elliott
Recruiting Officer Dale Harris
Recruiting Officer Michael Jordan

Let's just look at what some other clubs have in the way of list management and recruiting:

Hawthorn
Graham Wright - Recruiting and List Manager
Dale Bleach - Recruiting Manager Pro Scout
Mark McKenzie - Recruiting and Special Projects Manager
Geoff Morris - Recruiting Manager - West

GWS
Paul Brodie - Scout
Phil Scully - Scout

Collingwood
Derek Hine - General Manager of List Management
Matthew Rendell - Senior National Recruiting Assistant
Dominic Milesi - National Recruiting Assistant
Adam Shepard - National Recruiting Assistant

North
National Recruiting Manager Bryce Lewis
Recruiting Officer Andrew Carson
Recruiting Assistant Ben Birthisel

Essendon
Adrian Dodoro - List and Recruiting Manager
Merve Keane - Senior Recruiting Coordinator
Rob Forster-Knight - Recruiting Officer
Mark Micallef - Recruiting Analyst

Can't be stuffed looking through the rest, but we get the picture. It's not as though nobody else has a List Manager doubling as a Recruiting Manager and it's not as though we are running with a skeleton recruiting team.

Thanks.

Can't believe people are crying foul over a discretionary position in which we will fill.

 

[Sin City]

Nah Id tell you what's weak... But it could be damaging to individuals, make them look silly or just be down right disrespectful so if I see something that's weak that I am aware of, I'll just try and let people know and hopefully the conversation moves back to what makes this forum enjoyable.

You're right, best not to embarrass yourself here.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Gawd, what a lot of titles for Talent Scouts.

 

[ShanDog]

Gawd, what a lot of titles for Talent Scouts.

Gotta make your job seem more important if you want that raise you put in for!

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Gotta make your job seem more important if you want that raise you put in for!

I'll be brutally honest here.........wouldn't know Hughes, Swann, Dodoro?? or Pelchen??? from a bag of pooh.

The only one I recall, is Speed-Head Gavin Crosisca recommending Michael Jamison as a speculative rookie around 10 years ago.

 

[ShanDog]

I'll be brutally honest here.........wouldn't know Hughes, Swann, Dodoro?? or Pelchen??? from a bag of pooh.

Yeah wouldn't really recognise them if I bumped into them in the street, but thanks to BigFooty, I could call them out on all sorts of things if I did!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Not the sort of thing I'd discuss on BigFooty and was not my intention when I replied to you. This place is great for discussions about players, match day, pre-season hopes or I guess for the really desperate ones a place they can meet members of the opposite sex. Very few posters though, get it right when making assumptions about things that happen behind the scenes and it can be damaging to individuals or the club, make us supporters look silly or just be down right disrespectful so if I see something that's factually incorrect about something where I am aware of the truth I'll just try and let people know they're off the mark and hopefully the conversation moves back to what makes this forum enjoyable.

I'll assume you are not inside the club speaking on behalf of the club for a start, since you are keen to further the idea that the club are unprofessional for not having a Recruiting Manager this year.

That assumption being made, I'll assume that you have spoken to past and/or present staff who are upset about their circumstances. I further assume that you these contacts are beyond reproach in your mind.

I am going into less certain territory here and assume that you have not spoken to all parties to any disillusionment and as such have not gained all sides of the story so your truth is from one perspective albeit one you have 100% confidence in.

You do talk about other people's assumptions about what happens behind the scenes being damaging to individuals or the club, but this confuses me since the things you allude to ARE damaging to the club. Is it okay to damage the club if you have one side of a story from someone who is disillusioned? Does that help us to enable the club to fix those problems or does it demonise those deemed responsible?

I have ideas about who some of these disillusioned people may be and if I am correct, I have enough concern and respect for those people not to indicate who they might be. However, nothing is fact unless all evidence is uncovered, just different perspectives. I make a living out of uncovering all evidence and talking to everybody. I might lean a direction personally, but always leave room for some things to be a little distorted.

Hell when I have been disillusioned at work, I probably embellish and leave out parts that maybe I could have done something to prevent.

So the issue seems to be that when anybody talks recruiting, some posters want everybody to know that the club are big bad faceless men. Hell, Windy merely mentioned that we are unprofessional for not having a Recruiting Manager and had that point debated. So why did that that rebuttal need to be corrected, to save people from horrible mistruths and looking silly? What does it matter to the discussion whether Rogers walked, was pushed, had unacceptable terms in his contract?

Once he was gone, we managed the vacancy as best we could. Why the vacancy existed in neither here nor there to that discussion.

I'd love to find a way forward from these issues, I really would but I have no idea what the pro-Rogers camp expect to happen for that to occur. It just feels like they want blood for decisions past and I don't see how that helps this new club we are trying to build.

Lots of people know board members, media people, players, coaches, recruiters, supporters with ears to the above. Some PM information, most have a take it or leave it mentality. If people want to suggest they are the only ones with access to club information and they need to save people from themselves like some sort of super supporter, well we may as well shut it all down and let the super supporters who know everything discuss things amongst themselves.

We're all equal here ... and if we're not, well most of us don't know each other so aren't compelled to take any inside word as gospel.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

What makes this forum enjoyable is allowing those that know football do discuss football............all that fluffy stuff is filler and doesn't belong on main boards. (no winks included)

But it keeps getting raised in a fashion that people are idiots for not buying into it.

 

[ShanDog]

Yeah, well, everyone has their style, I guess. Content over delivery and I understand the content.

Anyway, I said I'd try to keep out of these discussions and I am trying.......very trying

I was paraphrasing Sin City's earlier post in order to use his own words against him.

I am still learning this technique from my wife and have not yet perfected it, but it wasn't a bad effort.

 

[Sin City]

I was paraphrasing Sin City's earlier post in order to use his own words against him.

I am still learning this technique from my wife and have not yet perfected it, but it wasn't a bad effort.

It was pretty average