Should the Champions League and Europa League be merged into a Super Champions League?

[Cooldude]

Yet again, your double standards is non-sensical. Your differentiation between those clubs make zero sense, we could've qualified straight out if we played a strong team against young boys at Anfield, we did not, and subsequently drew that game, yet in your eyes, apparently that is not disrespecting the competition.

Whereas Bolton, Villa, Stoke, for whatever reason, prioritized their league games over Europa Cup ties, the same way we do, yet they are disrespecting it. You are going completely bonkers on this one

The only one who continually miss the point is you, you keep going on about disrespecting the competition, yet your criteria for what constitutes "disrespect" is stupid at best.

And here's another thing you don't understand and missed continually: not many clubs can cope with midweek and weekend games, they don't have the squad, so they have to prioritize. They chose the games they see as having the least incentive to start their best players in order to better prepare themselves for the more important games. If they go the other way and prioritize Europa league over the domestic league, they'd still have to rest players for the league (like we did in 2005, I already mentioned that many times). They would be disrespecting SOMETHING, and you'd be outraged over it either way.

Unless your criteria for disrespect isn't based purely on weakened teams, which would just be idiotic coz it appears your idea of disrespect really is cluster*

You're going on about money, you're mixing issues, that's about CL spot over Europa. Clubs' squad management for different competitions is a different issue here, many clubs simply cannot continually field strong sides to compete on all fronts in mid week and weekends, something you continually ignore. And I know what you're gonna say, you're gonna ride your high horse and say, footballers who get paid gazillion should be able to handle playing whenever, wherever, however many. And I'm here to tell you welcome to the ******* club, welcome to reality, that just doesn't happen

 

[moomba]

Yet again, your double standards is non-sensical. Your differentiation between those clubs make zero sense, we could've qualified straight out if we played a strong team against young boys at Anfield, we did not, and subsequently drew that game, yet in your eyes, apparently that is not disrespecting the competition.

Whereas Bolton, Villa, Stoke, for whatever reason, prioritized their league games over Europa Cup ties, the same way we do, yet they are disrespecting it. You are going completely bonkers on this one

The only one who continually miss the point is you, you keep going on about disrespecting the competition, yet your criteria for what constitutes "disrespect" is stupid at best.

As I've mentioned Liverpool IMO have tried to qualify through the group, and also IMO want to win the competition. Villa, Stoke and Bolton sent joke sides to knockout ties when they had a decent chance of progressing if they didn't. You can have a different opinion if you like, I can cope with that without having the need to bring out the tired old hyperbole that accompanies any post you make about me (and your posts area always about me more than the issue being discussed).

And here's another thing you don't understand and missed continually: not many clubs can cope with midweek and weekend games, they don't have the squad, so they have to prioritize. They chose the games they see as having the least incentive to start their best players in order to better prepare themselves for the more important games. If they go the other way and prioritize Europa league over the domestic league, they'd still have to rest players for the league (like we did in 2005, I already mentioned that many times). They would be disrespecting SOMETHING, and you'd be outraged over it either way.

Unless your criteria for disrespect isn't based purely on weakened teams, which would just be idiotic coz it appears your idea of disrespect really is cluster****

As I've said (three times now), I have no problem with squad management/rotation/prioritising competitions.

You're going on about money, you're mixing issues, that's about CL spot over Europa. Clubs' squad management for different competitions is a different issue here, many clubs simply cannot continually field strong sides to compete on all fronts in mid week and weekends, something you continually ignore. And I know what you're gonna say, you're gonna ride your high horse and say, footballers who get paid gazillion should be able to handle playing whenever, wherever, however many. And I'm here to tell you welcome to the ******* club, welcome to reality, that just doesn't happen

I've already said that I have no problem with squad management, and I've already said that you don't have to select a best XI week in week out to show respect to the competition.

But I don't see why clubs can't withdraw from the Europa league if it offers them no benefit as is often stated on here. Give the spot to a team that wants to be there. Focus on the league, and try and make the champions league without distractions. You should probably withdraw from the domestic cups as well as they could be considered an unneccessary distraction too. Of course going on those overseas pre-season and mid season tours should probably be cancelled but we all know that won't happen. Clubs won't do this, because they want to have their cake and eat it. As do a lot of supporters, they moan about the Europa league but their only solution is to make it easier to reach the champions league. Not playing in Europe at all doesn't seem to be a reasonable option to many.

 

[Cooldude]

As I've mentioned Liverpool IMO have tried to qualify through the group, and also IMO want to win the competition. Villa, Stoke and Bolton sent joke sides to knockout ties when they had a decent chance of progressing if they didn't. You can have a different opinion if you like, I can cope with that without having the need to bring out the tired old hyperbole that accompanies any post you make about me (and your posts area always about me more than the issue being discussed).

This is what you don't get and this is where you're making absolutely zero sense, no matter how many times I've explained to you. Why is it that you're seeing one team as wanting to qualify for the group and win the comp, and another not, when both of them have sent out joke sides? I don't see how we're trying very hard to qualify for the group if we didn't even send a remotely strong side out in a game where we'd be guarantee progression if we win, and apparently that isn't respecting the comp. Yet someone else, with probably a even worse squad than us, does the same thing, and you're going bonkers about it

This is where you are making no sense whatever, coz apparently your criteria for disrespect comes from whether someone sends out a joke side or not, yet at the same time, you're saying another club isn't disrespecting it when they've sent out joke sides. Btw, I'm sure many of the semi-finalists and winners in the past have sent out joke sides one way or another in the comp.

You are completely confused as to what constitutes "disrespecting the competition", until you make more sense in that area you should stay off it. Btw, just because someone else sends a weaken side doesn't mean they don't wanna win it, it's just reality that they can't, coz of other competitions they have to compete in, too. Until you get that idea in your head, you're just blowing hot air.

As I've said (three times now), I have no problem with squad management/rotation/prioritising competitions.

I have said countless times, this is what you don't get and this is where you're talking nonsense. You are saying you have no problems with squad management, yet at the same time, you are slaughtering other clubs for disrespecting the comp, for doing exactly that, squad management. You are confused beyond belief

I've already said that I have no problem with squad management, and I've already said that you don't have to select a best XI week in week out to show respect to the competition.

But I don't see why clubs can't withdraw from the Europa league if it offers them no benefit as is often stated on here. Give the spot to a team that wants to be there. Focus on the league, and try and make the champions league without distractions. You should probably withdraw from the domestic cups as well as they could be considered an unneccessary distraction too. Of course going on those overseas pre-season and mid season tours should probably be cancelled but we all know that won't happen. Clubs won't do this, because they want to have their cake and eat it. As do a lot of supporters, they moan about the Europa league but their only solution is to make it easier to reach the champions league. Not playing in Europe at all doesn't seem to be a reasonable option to many.

I hope you don't ever run a business or whatever, coz if you're offering the option to withdraw for a lot of clubs, a lot of them would actually take it, and a lot of other clubs who wanna take that spot, lo and behold, aren't much good at football. The competition standards become even worse, and no one's gonna watch it, sponsors ain't gonna come in, and it'd become a train wreck

This is where your high horse riding, idealistic and simplistic solutions would not work, because it's not based on reality, and the reality is that football is about money, and you can only be successful if you have lots of money. Administrations and clubs are gonna make decisions, based on the long term success of their club, and that would be about money. This includes this "prioritizing" comps and "squad management" you're talking about, which you seem to have no problem with and all the problem with it at the same time.

Your ideal way of managing this sport is only gonna run it to the ground, coz it's not based on reality but some sense of moral outrage. This is where I'll say again, welcome to reality, welcome to the real world. Btw, there is nothing wrong with targeting posters who repeatedly show particular traits in their opinions such as, double standards, hypocrisy, high horse riding. I've dealt with plenty of facts, but if I see a spade I call a spade, don't see any problems with that

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Don't really care if it does.

Then you won't care when the Champions League sponsors and broadcasters drastically reduce how much they will pay as 15 countries have their multiple spots reduced to one.

 

[moomba]

I'm not going bonkers about anything, I'm not outraged about anything I'm just stating my opinion. Stop using hyperbole and stop using the insults in every post you make addressing me. It's way beyond boring, and makes it impossible to have any sort of discussion with you.

If you think Liverpool are disrespecting the competition, fine. Be my guest.

I don't think they have shown disrespect to the competition, as I have stated I believe that they are trying to win the competition. I don't believe the same of Villa, Bolton and Stoke at various times in the past.

I see a difference between squad management and throwing a competition. I've said several times in this thread that respecting the competition does not mean that you have to play your best XI each week, if you can't see a difference between playing a few kids or fringe players, and resting a few regulars and putting in a second/third string then I guess that's where we will never agree.

Sorry if you find that hard to deal with.

 

[moomba]

Then you won't care when the Champions League sponsors and broadcasters drastically reduce how much they will pay as 15 countries have their multiple spots reduced to one.

Correct.

To be honest I think the money that's in the champions league is to the overall detriment of the game.

It creates unbalanced domestic competitions, it creates situations where 4th place is seen as more important than winning a cup. It lets the rich clubs get richer, and rich players richer. It does * all for everyone else.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Domestic leagues were badly unequal many years before non-champions were let into the CL.

 

[Cooldude]

I'm not going bonkers about anything, I'm not outraged about anything I'm just stating my opinion. Stop using hyperbole and stop using the insults in every post you make addressing me. It's way beyond boring, and makes it impossible to have any sort of discussion with you.

If you think Liverpool are disrespecting the competition, fine. Be my guest.

I don't think they have shown disrespect to the competition, as I have stated I believe that they are trying to win the competition. I don't believe the same of Villa, Bolton and Stoke at various times in the past.

I see a difference between squad management and throwing a competition. I've said several times in this thread that respecting the competition does not mean that you have to play your best XI each week, if you can't see a difference between playing a few kids or fringe players, and resting a few regulars and putting in a second/third string then I guess that's where we will never agree.

Sorry if you find that hard to deal with.

This is in a nutshell why you're making no sense, whatsoever

So you see Liverpool as wanting to win the comp, and the others aren't, when they have essentially done exactly the same thing. Btw, Liverpool is coming pretty close to throwing it by endangering their qualification chances by playing a joke side last game, why is that in your mind, "squad management", when other teams with a worse squad than us do the same thing, and they're throwing it?

Don't you see the contradiction in your reasoning which is not grounded by facts and reality? Btw yeah that's pretty hard to deal with, when a poster cannot see the contradiction in his opinion, yet trying pretty hard to express it. Especially when said poster has shown a consistent tendency in doing just that, then getting upset when people mention that he does it all the time. Here's a clue, if you start making a bit more sense, people would stop talking about how little sense you're making

Oh and btw, why is it that everytime someone points out that what you're saying isn't at all correct and true, you say it's hard to have a conversation with? Is it that hard for your opinion to be challenged

 

[moomba]

It's just a difference of opinion. Get over it. Move on with your life. Stop boring me.

 

[Cooldude]

Correct.

To be honest I think the money that's in the champions league is to the overall detriment of the game.

It creates unbalanced domestic competitions, it creates situations where 4th place is seen as more important than winning a cup. It lets the rich clubs get richer, and rich players richer. It does **** all for everyone else.

Even if you get rid of CL, more successful and famous clubs are still gonna generate more revenue that puts them above other clubs in the league. It solves nothing

Football has always been like the real world, unequal and unfair, I don't like it at all, but unfortunately that's the way it is, and feigning outrage on CL money reward teams that finish in the top couple of spots ain't gonna fix the problem.

People disagree with your opinion, get over it, stop throwing a fit everytime you get disagreed with

 

[moomba]

Domestic leagues were badly unequal many years before non-champions were let into the CL.

I guess you could argue the creation of the premier league has played it's part in England, but it's much less equal now IMO.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

The only way to make things equal would be a UEFA-wide salary cap or MLB style 'taxes' on higher spending.

But the opportunity for those things to happen was decades ago. And today clubs that make the CL (and EL) tend to be the most popular clubs in their country also.

So the horse long bolted.

 

[moomba]

People disagree with your opinion, get over it, stop throwing a fit everytime you get disagreed with

Who is throwing a fit? I was politely asked a question, I politely responded to it. If AA disagrees with my opinion that is his absolute right.

Stop boring me.

 

[moomba]

The only way to make things equal would be a UEFA-wide salary cap or MLB style 'taxes' on higher spending.

But the opportunity for those things to happen was decades ago. And today clubs that make the CL (and EL) tend to be the most popular clubs in their country also.

So the horse long bolted.

Probably, can't see a salary cap working either. Unfortunately now it's also a situation where the best players "need" to be playing in the champions league so even if you take the finances out of it there is that element of unfairness in there.

[edit]The luxury tax could work, but only to an extent. I think the only workable solution is clubs acting in the best interests of the game and not themselves. Chances of that happening?[/edit]

 

[Cooldude]

Who is throwing a fit? I was politely asked a question, I politely responded to it. If AA disagrees with my opinion that is his absolute right.

Stop boring me.

[edit]The luxury tax could work, but only to an extent. I think the only workable solution is clubs acting in the best interests of the game and not themselves. Chances of that happening?[/edit]

I also merely responded to your posts, and you're crying about how people are picking on you and stop responding to points people made.

This is where you get way too precious: just because someone else disagrees with your opinion and you find no way to answer to it, doesn't mean you have to go crying about how people are being nasty, and are boring you. If you think I'm being "disrespectful" (which btw we already establish you don't really know what it is), you should see some genuine trolls out there, ya know, out in the real world

 

[moomba]

I'm not crying about people picking on me. I'm crying about you boring the hell out of me.

I don't see the point in trying to answer the fact that you disagree with my opinion, you won't accept anything I say and I'm happy to leave it at that. Funny thing is, if I slagged Liverpool for disrespecting the competition I reckon you would have been the first on this thread disagreeing with me. You're no different since you first started posting on this board. Obsessed by me, and obsessed by slagging me off at every opportunity.

So stop boring me.

 

[Cooldude]

I'm not crying about people picking on me. I'm crying about you boring the hell out of me.

I don't see the point in trying to answer the fact that you disagree with my opinion, you won't accept anything I say and I'm happy to leave it at that. Funny thing is, if I slagged Liverpool for disrespecting the competition I reckon you would have been the first on this thread disagreeing with me. You're no different since you first started posting on this board. Obsessed by me, and obsessed by slagging me off at every opportunity.

So stop boring me.

It's not even opinion clashing opinion, it's that your opinion fundamentally contradicts itself and makes no sense, that's why people won't accept it. Yet you refuse to accept anyone who basically proves what you say as absolutely non-sensical

Absolutely not, I would not have disagreed with you at all, I'd say, we aren't good enough to win it, and even if we are, we don't really get anything from it. I only disagree with bullshit when I see it, and unfortunately it comes from you most of the time

I'm hardly obsessed with you, you're obsessed with yourself more like it, this is a public forum, people dissect and disagree with your opinion and try to prove to you how wrong you are. If you can't take that, and see any disagreement as being obsessed with you, then you're missing the point of a public forum and the internet isn't really your thing

 

[moomba]

Boring

 

[Cooldude]

I guess when you're wrong as often as you are then sulk about it afterwards, it does get boring eventually

 

[moomba]

Boring

 

[Zidane98]

Correct.

To be honest I think the money that's in the champions league is to the overall detriment of the game.

It creates unbalanced domestic competitions, it creates situations where 4th place is seen as more important than winning a cup. It lets the rich clubs get richer, and rich players richer. It does **** all for everyone else.

The question has to be asked Moomba if this so called super "Champions League" combining both European competitions into one came to fruition what competition would City drop into when they inevitably finish 3rd in their group?

 

[moomba]

3rd is a tad optimistic at the moment I think.

 

[jd2010]

Ask any manager around the world if they'd put preference in getting through the knockout stages of the EL if it meant risking top flight survival and you'd find very few (if any) that would think its worth it. Thats why they "squad manage" as Moomba would say. Same thing if its a side pushing for CL qualification like we were under 'Arry. Without any real carrot there surely you can see this moomba.

I know its probably hard to grasp reality with the billions the Shiek has but come on if City were having a so-so season and were between 3rd-6th in the PL and it came to Feb when the knockout stages were on. Would you rather see the side go on an 8 game winning run and get to the EL final while finishing 6th or would you rather them go on an 8 game winning run in the league and cementing 3rd and CL football?

 

[moomba]

I know why they do it, I just don't agree with it.

And it has nothing to do with the money we have, I felt the same when we were skint.

And I still believe that taking Europe doesn't guarantee success in the league, and trying to win in Europe does not guarantee failure. People have been conditioned over the years to believe that there clubs are incapable of trying to compete in cups as well as the league.

If you don't want to have a go in the tournament though, why not withdraw? Let a side in that wants to play, and you can focus on the league. Withdraw from the FA and League Cups as well as they must be a distraction from the ultimate aim of the league.

I still don't see what the problem is with that, the competition isn't better for the presence of teams that are going to put a half arsed effort in, so forget about Europe until you qualify for the one tournament you think is worthy of your club.

 

[ADL9798]

Ask any manager around the world if they'd put preference in getting through the knockout stages of the EL if it meant risking top flight survival and you'd find very few (if any) that would think its worth it. Thats why they "squad manage" as Moomba would say. Same thing if its a side pushing for CL qualification like we were under 'Arry. Without any real carrot there surely you can see this moomba.

I know its probably hard to grasp reality with the billions the Shiek has but come on if City were having a so-so season and were between 3rd-6th in the PL and it came to Feb when the knockout stages were on. Would you rather see the side go on an 8 game winning run and get to the EL final while finishing 6th or would you rather them go on an 8 game winning run in the league and cementing 3rd and CL football?

No doubt it's probably easier to claim the money shouldn't be important and to grasp this noble (yet unfortunately unrealistic for many clubs) notion that teams should be trying to win every competition they enter when your club has an essentially limitless supply of money and arguably the deepest squad the Premier League has ever seen.

I think Moomba's stance is fine for clubs like his own, for whom financial incentives are not really a concern and CL qualification is essentially guaranteed for the foreseeable future. What it does not take into consideration is that not every club is in such a strong position as City. Most clubs have to be smart about how they attack their season because due to squad limitations it is impossible to realistically approach every single competition with 100% committment to winning it, if they did that then in all likelihood they wouldn't achieve any of their goals - you have to prioritise and until greater incentive is attached to the Europa League (either through financial reward or CL qualification to the winner) then the EPL and an attack on the top 4 will always be the greater priority.

As a result of this the Europa League will continue to be tainted as unlike the Champions League, any side who wins it will know that in all likelihood, several of the teams they will have faced on their road to the final would not have been giving the competition their undivided attention as there are greater prizes out there to be won.

UEFA have set the rules and framework and just like someone else has mentioned with the AFL's recently scrapped Priority Pick draft system, clubs are fully within their rights to take advantage of that framework in a way that best suits their needs and aims. It is therefore UEFA's job to fix it because the clubs will always act in their own best interests. Expecting them to have some sort of altruistic view of world football and to sacrifice their own goals for the good of the Europa League is completely unrealistic in my opinion given the highly competitive nature of the fight for the EPL top 4 at present - as clubs like Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, Newcastle, Everton etc will take any advantage they can get to win that battle.