Should we have troops on the ground in Iraq?

[Moo]

ISIS ... and they have a long history .

Are you mad?

Oh ...hang on you are - play on.

 

[little graham]

So the truth slowly emerges.

http://rt.com/usa/184264-usa-kurdish-tanker-oil/

A “ghost ship” oil tanker carrying approximately $100 million of disputed Iraqi Kurdish crude oil has reappeared on satellite imagery near the US coast Monday, after disappearing for several days

This isn’t the first time Kurdish oil tankers have switched off their electronic transponders to avoid detection – essentially making their movements impossible to track.

Approximately a week ago, a Kurdish tanker carrying crude disappeared from satellite tracking north of Egypt’s Sinai, only to reappear empty two days later near Israel.

 

[mottrain]

Not this delusional lefty chestnut again.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

its cos the West want it both ways.

they want to say to the domestic audience we stay independent. see: the George W Bush running principle in 2000.

but they want to say Right To Protect too, and use this as a mask for intervention.

They want sanctions and nuclear protections, whilst maintaining military power and power projection and the gas geysers flowing

they want stability but the option to foment instability and a putsch,,,




so on a meta level. They want the hypocrisy. AND i WANT the right to sledge them for the hypocrisy. I can accept the geopolitical realism and armies. I can even accept the "big lie". But when they switch the lie with the contradictions, the hypocrisy then is targeted to me as a useful idiot.

What's that got to do with the price of tea in china?
You think any country in the world does anything other then do whatever they can do to protect and support their interests?

I wasn't even talking about people who by the "west is evil" lie domestically. I'm talking about regional countries who are fair weather allies of the "west" happy for us to step in when they can't handle their s**t or in need of aid, But when the west helps itself, or if their own just get ******* sick of their s**t, we're the ultimate evil.

They can all get ****ed, Let the s**t collapse, let those that call the west imperialists beg for intervention and let us sit back and do wash our hands of it.

 

[MaddAdam]

Are you mad?

Oh ...hang on you are - play on.

What? That there's been significant collusion between ISIS and Assad is well know.

 

[Moo]

What? That there's been significant collusion between ISIS and Assad is well know.

The word I was questioning was 'long'.

No doubt Arsead has lost the instruction booklet on his devilishly clever plan.

However this is the civil war that is overdue by a century.

 

[Mofra]

 

[Xsess]

Kudos to Gough for posing the question.

You cant ignore the threat. Obviously Obama should never have pulled them out in the first place. The absolute fool. But he did and now every s**t head Islamic terrorist on earth has descended on Syria and Iraq. They will wipe out all opposition from within the county through the current genocide, then they will export their vile practices all over the globe - hell the UK is already on extreme alert. So its a humanitarian crisis initially (to stop a genocide), then it will becomes a matter of national security for us and other western countries, whether we like it or not. Whether we deal with this threat through airstrikes, supplying weapons or ground troops - I dunno. Probably all of the above.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Ah the latest game of whack-a-mole.

The arms and defense history sits back and laughs at us all again.

 

[cartwright]

Kudos to Gough for posing the question.

You cant ignore the threat. Obviously Obama should never have pulled them out in the first place. The absolute fool. But he did and now every s**t head Islamic terrorist on earth has descended on Syria and Iraq. They will wipe out all opposition from within the county through the current genocide, then they will export their vile practices all over the globe - hell the UK is already on extreme alert. So its a humanitarian crisis initially (to stop a genocide), then it will becomes a matter of national security for us and other western countries, whether we like it or not. Whether we deal with this threat through airstrikes, supplying weapons or ground troops - I dunno. Probably all of the above.

How'd that work out last time?
As I said at the time. Never ending war.

 

[Play by Numbers]

No we didn't. If anyone "created" ISIS ... and they have a long history ... it was Assad. He certainly gave them a huge boost.

Western countries supplied a fledgling IS in Syria with weapons and cash.

How many times does this have to happen before our respective populations say enough? Iraq and the situation therein is the US and to a smaller part it's allies doing. More war, won't fix the situation.

The middle east has progressively collapsed into greater and greater chaos, it is no coincidence this matches a period of steadily increasing western interference.

Arming the Kurdish militias is also of dubious value. Arm the mujahadeen in Afghanistan, get the taliban. Arm paramilitary factions in Mexico, get the cartels. Arm extremists in Syria, get IS. Do you see the pattern?

The US funded different sides that eventually led to war in the region. They backed brutal dictators, who unsurprisingly turned on their citizens. They then went to war, killing hundreds of thousands and radicalising much of the region. Despite all advice to the contrary, they then stayed and so devastated the region it left a power vacuum that extremists they helped fund, have decided to occupy.

Anyone who supports further Australian intervention is an arsehole, and deserves to be blamed when the situation deteriorates and /or we experience blow back.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Kudos to Gough for posing the question.

Unfortunately you decided to grace us with your foul presence.

 

[Power Raid]

As the situation becomes more dire by the day, it's looking likely that this is an issue that we will be forced to face. Despite my pacifist instincsts, I'm of the view that if it becomes necessary, then we should. As a part of the so-called coalition of the willing we must shoulder some of the blame as to what is going there at the moment and no matter how distasteful we may find the prospect of Australians coming home in boxes, we must share the burden in trying to rectify the situation and allowing the Iraqis the chance of a peaceful existance. To turn our backs and ignore it would be the cowards way out, we helped to break it, now we help fix it.

agree

we contributed to created a mess; now we have to contribute to fix it

but fixing the mess is not just soldiers but probably carving up the nation of iraq. the nation is not united and carving it up into smaller pieces as stand alone nations or carving it up and incorporating them into their neighbors (where appropriate) is probably required.

but soldiers on the ground to control the violence is probably needed to provide stability.

 

[Power Raid]

I would love nothing more than russian, chinese and US working on this together. working together rather than undermining each other would be a pleasant change.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

I would love nothing more than russian, chinese and US working on this together. working together rather than undermining each other would be a pleasant change.

Why should Russia clean up the US's mess ?

 

[Play by Numbers]

Why should Russia clean up the US's mess ?

All three fund, support or arm insurgents/ Islamic states to cause headaches for other states, when convenient. Unsurprisingly, all three have a history of persecuting muslims and are constantly doing battle with armed Islamic groups and terrorist orgs.

Heck, even intrenched Islamic state actors in Saudi Arabia, emirates nations etc. are often guilty of the same.

If we want groups like IS not to be a problem, then they have to stop being used as a go to tool of choice for the big players.

 

[Power Raid]

Why should Russia clean up the US's mess ?

regardless of why, the outcome would be better if we as a globe worked together rather than against each other. similar to history where the french expanded to moscow before being pushed back, followed by the emergence of central european powers only to be crushed by the east and west. it seemed like a good idea back then but we now understand that destroying each other every 20 years was not good for long term growth.

we need to take the next step and realise undermining each other and funding insurgents and coups is no better. that requires the EU, russia, US, China and hopefully one day India, the South Americas and the Africa Alliance to work together on solving global hot spots and issues.

 

[Xsess]

How'd that work out last time?
As I said at the time. Never ending war.

I dont even have an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the last Iraqi war anymore. The way I'm feeling lately I'm starting to think we just enforce a big perimeter around Australia and let the rest of the world just massacre each other to their hearts content. Irrespective, we did go to war and it did leave country more stable than its been in decades right up until that imbicile Obama pulled the troops out earlier this year. THAT was a monumental utensil up in hindsight. Who the hell was advising the fool? I agree with your comment about it being a never ending war though.

 

[skilts]

I dont even have an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the last Iraqi war anymore. The way I'm feeling lately I'm starting to think we just enforce a big perimeter around Australia and let the rest of the world just massacre each other to their hearts content. Irrespective, we did go to war and it did leave country more stable than its been in decades right up until that imbicile Obama pulled the troops out earlier this year. THAT was a monumental utensil up in hindsight. Who the hell was advising the fool? I agree with your comment about it being a never ending war though.

Blame George W. Bush, it was his idea, in 2008. The Iraqi government, such as it is, was also in favour.

 

[cartwright]

Blame George W. Bush, it was his idea, in 2008. The Iraqi government, such as it is, was also in favour.

...weelll.. apparently god told him to do it, right?

 

[Upgrayedd]

Arming the Kurds is a great idea!

Untill the Kurds decide and probably fairly they want to finally stop being kicked around by the Sunni/Shi'ite's and Try to take half of Iraq/Iran/Turkey, Kind of like how we armed the Sunni's in Syria and they decided to go and forge ISIS.

 

[skilts]

Arming the Kurds is a great idea!

Untill the Kurds decide and probably fairly they want to finally stop being kicked around by the Sunni/Shi'ite's and Try to take half of Iraq/Iran/Turkey, Kind of like how we armed the Sunni's in Syria and they decided to go and forge ISIS.

This is all as a result of detailed planning by the US back in 2003. Leave them alone. It must be obvious to anyone who cares to look that they have things completely under control. All of these contingencies and outcomes were anticipated. To say otherwise is...well...where was I?

 

[Moo]

Blame George W. Bush, it was his idea, in 2008. The Iraqi government, such as it is, was also in favour.

Personally I blame Percy Cox.

Really good that Dean managed to step out of his shadow.

...weelll.. apparently god told him to do it, right?

The other god apparently hadn't signed off on it though and thought it was just a discussion paper.

Bit embarrassing really.

 

[cartwright]

Personally I blame Percy Cox.

Really good that Dean managed to step out of his shadow.



The other god apparently hadn't signed off on it though and thought it was just a discussion paper.

Bit embarrassing really.

haha. Obviously, that was Allah.

 

[Xsess]

Oh yes. Because the middle east would be paradise on earth without America's involvement.