Siege in Martin Place, Sydney

[CountryRace]

Trying to equate terrorism with random violence.

One says Allah Akbar. The other does not. Good argument Statistically do you know what the odds are of dying in a terrorist attack vs a random attack of violence?


libertarianhome.co.uk/2015/01/stop-giving-in-to-terrorism-stand-up-to-it/
4 days ago - Statistically you have more chance of dying of food poisoning, or in a train crash or being drowned in the bath than of being killed in an act of terrorism.

 

[Malifice]

Trying to equate terrorism with random violence.

Random violence isn't random. There are reasons why disaffected young men (and its always men) go on shooting sprees in schools and elsewhere, there are reasons why women kill their children, and there are reasons why disaffected young men get radicalised and see Islamic fundamentalism as an option.

You need to look at the factors that contribute to people using violence as an option mate. And i'm sorry to say but the reason isnt just 'Islam'.

 

[Xsess]

Random violence isn't random.

It is. The reason people go on violent rampages are as varied as each individual.

Unlike Jihadists who engage in violence is because their religion told them to.

Big difference

 

[CountryRace]

If you really want to smoke ice but you have no money.

So you kill and steal from the guy next door. They did so because the brain said to.

Identical. Cover it up with as much bullshit as you like but its the same

No strawman you are just conditioned to think this way.

Regardless of the statically unlikelihood of death via terrorism

 

[Malifice]

It is. The reason people go on violent rampages are as varied as each individual.

Unlike Jihadists who engage in violence is because their religion told them to.

What the hell?

Cant you see that you're the one making an exception here, and not me?

 

[Xsess]

What the hell?

Cant you see that you're the one making an exception here, and not me?

Deliberately so because terrorism is different to random violence.

I think the term "death cult" pretty much covers it. Its a centralised violent ideology.

 

[Malifice]

Deliberately so because terrorism is different to random violence.

So you accuse me of making an exception for Islam (and denounce me for it)... and then you yourself immediately make an exception for Islam?

That you cant see your own staggering hypocrisy is mind boggling.

Its like how you oppose migration, yet marry a migrant. Or oppose discrimination, but support it against Muslims. Or purport to be opposed to violence, yet also support it against Muslims. You oppose state tyranny. Unless its against Muslims. And so forth.

You're arguably the biggest hypocrite I have seen around these parts for a while.

 

[Xsess]

So you accuse me of making an exception for Islam (and denounce me for it)... and then you yourself immediately make an exception for Islam?.

Huh? You think terrorism and random violence are the same thing. I've just said they arent.

Its like how you oppose migration, yet marry a migrant.

I oppose migration because of population growth. Environmental grounds, not racial.

Or oppose discrimination, but support it against Muslims.

I guess I do support discriminatory migration policy as it relates to muslims. But only after reaching the conclusion that the Islamic religion results in less tolerent society. Feel free to label away or envoke "stormfront" as your new Godwin - it is what it is.

Or purport to be opposed to violence, yet also support it against Muslims.

No I dont

You oppose state tyranny. Unless its against Muslims.

No I dont.

You're arguably the biggest hypocrite I have seen around these parts for a while

There's definately a bigger one.

 

[Malifice]

Huh? You think terrorism and random violence are the same thing. I've just said they arent.

No, I said I don't believe in random violence. There is a reason for all violence, from drive by shootings, high school massacres, domestic violence, war killings and so forth. Even if the reason is as simple as 'the killer was mentally disturbed'.

I oppose migration because of population growth. Environmental grounds, not racial.

Yet you marry a migrant, and probably want to have (or have had) children.

Hypocrite.

I do support discriminatory migration policy as it relates to muslims.

No I dont [support tyranny against muslims]

Hypocrite.

No I dont [support violence against muslims].

Yet you've previously all but endorsed the Cronulla riots.

You're all over the shop.

 

[Xsess]

No, I said I don't believe in random violence. There is a reason for all violence, from drive by shootings, high school massacres, domestic violence, war killings and so forth. Even if the reason is as simple as 'the killer was mentally disturbed'..

There's nothing random about Islamic terrorism. Unlike the examples you raise above.

Yet you marry a migrant, and probably want to have (or have had) children.

I love migrants but hate mass scale immigration. Two completely different things. Australia has a stable population, our population "growth" is almost entirely through immigration. My apprehension as it relates to migration is stupid calls for a Big Australia with a population of 50 million. Race doesn't come into it. Nor does my choice of wife. Nor do my two kids.

Yet you've previously all but endorsed the Cronulla riots.

Rubbish

 

[Malifice]

There's nothing random about Islamic terrorism. Unlike the examples you raise above.

There is nothing 'random' about domestic violence or mass shootings either. Generally perpetuated by mentally disturbed individuals, almost invariably men, and almost invariably from lower socio-economic backgrounds.

People don't wake up one morning and go 'hey, just for shits and giggles I'm going to go a killing rampage'

I love migrants but hate mass scale immigration. Two completely different things. Australia has a stable population, our population "growth" is almost entirely through immigration. My apprehension as it relates to migration is stupid calls for a Big Australia with a population of 50 million. Race doesn't come into it. Nor does my choice of wife. Nor do my two kids.

See this is what truly annoys me about you. You're happy to benefit from migration personally (being a migrant or descended from one yourself, and even falling in love, marrying and having a family with a migrant) but you also want to deprive others of the exact same benefits you yourself enjoy. Its selfish and hypocritical so say the least.

You're just screaming for the State to pull up the ladder once you and your family safely get on board 'big ship Australia', while you give the big middle finger to everyone else still waiting to board as you do it. Particularly people of a faith you don't like personally.

Its a truly selfish, hypocritical and discriminatory position to take.

It sickens me.

 

[Xsess]

There is nothing 'random' about domestic violence or mass shootings either. Generally perpetuated by mentally disturbed individuals, almost invariably men, and almost invariably from lower socio-economic backgrounds.

People don't wake up one morning and go 'hey, just for shits and giggles I'm going to go a killing rampage'.

Yes they do. They also kill in drunken fits, jealousy, family disputes about kids or out of revenge. Pretty much every murder has a different motive, hence its "random". Islamic terrorism isn't random, its based on an ideology.

See this is what truly annoys me about you. You're happy to benefit from migration personally (being a migrant or descended from one yourself, and even falling in love, marrying and having a family with a migrant) but you also want to deprive others of the exact same benefits you yourself enjoy. Its selfish and hypocritical so say the least.

You're just screaming for the State to pull up the ladder once you and your family safely get on board 'big ship Australia', while you give the big middle finger to everyone else still waiting to board as you do it. Particularly people of a faith you don't like personally.

Its a truly selfish, hypocritical and discriminatory position to take.

It sickens me.

What a load of bollocks. There's nothing selfish about a sustainable population debate.

 

[Malifice]

Yes they do. They also kill in drunken fits, jealousy, family disputes about kids or out of revenge. Pretty much every murder has a different motive, hence its "random". Islamic terrorism isn't random, its based on an ideology.

Youre a fool if you think things like mass shootings, and what we saw up in Cairns are just 'random' events.

And what Monis did was based on Islamic ideology as much as 'I killed my kids becuase they had Satan in them, and Jesus told me to' is based on Christianity.

 

[CountryRace]

Gang of drug dealers ?
Bikies?
Collongwood fans?

These types cause 'Terror', via political, organised, planned actions, not random violence.

If they wore beards and screamed Alan Akbar relentlessly youd not know the difference

Yes they do. They also kill in drunken fits, jealousy, family disputes about kids or out of revenge. Pretty much every murder has a different motive, hence its "random". Islamic terrorism isn't random, its based on an ideology.



What a load of bollocks. There's nothing selfish about a sustainable population debate.

 

[Xsess]

Youre a fool if you think things like mass shootings, and what we saw up in Cairns are just 'random' events..

Yes they are. Bryants motivation was different to the mum in Cairns, which was different to the scum who murdered Jill Meagher, which was different to the Daniel Morcombe case, which was different to the Gerard Baden-Clay case. Random.

In contrast Monis motivation was exactly the same as the perpetrators in Paris, which was the same motivation for flighing planes into the world trade centre, the same motivation for blowing up the Sari club, buses in London etc etc etc.

 

[CountryRace]

Yes they are. Bryants motivation was different to the mum in Cairns, which was different to the scum who murdered Jill Meagher, which was different to the Daniel Morcombe case, which was different to the Gerard Baden-Clay case. Random.

In contrast Monis motivation was exactly the same as the perpetrators in Paris, which was the same motivation for flighing planes into the world trade centre, the same motivation for blowing up the Sari club, buses in London etc etc etc.

Why does it matter if the Norway Christian terrorist had a different motivation from the 8 dead kids-mum? I still don't see the point but I am willing to learn.

A Bali person, may be radicalized due to being upset some Australian tourist , where as a Palestine suicide bomber may have different motivation.

Let's say you are correct. 1.6 billion are potentially dangerous and fighting against (Christians? Whites?) With the identically religious and politically reasoning; Why is that so much more pressing than if you wind up dead due to no food or victim of a pissed off drug enthusiast? Dead is dead is it not?

It could be a game so you can have 50% news as this, and the budget being billions off is not too much of a worry. Or we are always at war. Even if we are supposedly peace loving Christians. Or 80 blokes own equal to four billion people. Boat people getting the mistreatment . Removing billions of foreign aid. Etc etc I'm probably wrong but what is newsworthy. And what is the statistics of being dead ie. What we should be most logically afraid of are not equally weighted

 

[Xsess]

A Bali Muslim may be pissee off he got bashed some Australian tourist where as a Palestine suicide bomber may have different motivation
?

Have you invented another language?

 

[Malifice]

Yes they are. Bryants motivation was different to the mum in Cairns, which was different to the scum who murdered Jill Meagher, which was different to the Daniel Morcombe case, which was different to the Gerard Baden-Clay case. Random.

They had different motivations, but those motivations were not 'random'. There was a reason (and a cause) behind each and every one of those killings.

In the Monis case it was 'radicalization of a disaffected and slightly unstable loner from a low socio-economic background'

 

[CountryRace]

I cracked my phone nice

Bare with me now

 

[mdizzle]

The witnesses are getting their paydays now... Check the video in the below news article link for a promo of a hostage interview with 60 minutes... Perhaps it's my pervasive cynicism and admittedly it's a small out of context snippet of a much longer interview, but something is off about it.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/sie...ialSF&utm_source=PerthNow&utm_medium=Facebook

 

[Express Footy]

Is Australia too tolerant on the intolerant?


I recently came across this thought provoking article on Australia’s levels of tolerance of people who don’t deserve to live in this country, and indeed could well pose a threat to this country’s citizens. After reading about Muslim terrorist Man Haron Monis’ record, it does make you wonder why we were hell bent on keeping him in Australia, especially when the Iranian Government wanted him back after being charged with fraud in Iran.


Let’s have a look at some important points


- Monis entered Australia through a business visa and later a political refugee
- Charged with fraudulence in Iran
- Wrote disgusting letters to families of soldiers who died in Afghanistan and described them as Nazis and pigs, resulting in him getting a paltry sentence of 300 hours community service
- Government refused to deport him, denying a much more deserving refugee a chance at a better life
- Ex NSW Labor leader granted him permission to access his children, despite an apprehended violence order that prohibits such meetings
- Bailed him out twice; once for being an accessory to his ex-wife’s murder, and the other for over 50 acts of sexual assault
- Well known hater of the West
- Wrote about his allegiance to the Islamic State


As a nation, are we going to continue risking the lives of innocent civilians in our community in order to keep dangerous people on the streets to appease naive human rights groups? Any idiot after seeing Monis’ track record would be able to see that allowing him to roam around freely in the country was a bad move. Monis must have thought he was invincible in Australia, no matter what he did he just wouldn’t be severely punished. There are similar cases across the Western world of countries tolerating the intolerant, and ended up paying the ultimate price. We can learn from our mistakes, but in a world where people have become frightened to criticise Islam in fear of being branded a racist by the Left, or being killed by a terrorist, I can’t see any real progress being made anytime soon.

When Monis was charged with being an accessory before and after the fact to the vicious murder of his former wife — she was stabbed multiple times and then set alight — we allowed him bail. When Monis was charged with 50 acts of sexual assault, again we gave the man bail. When Monis sought to overturn a criminal conviction about the letters sent to the families of soldiers last week in the High Court, we provided taxpayer-funded legal aid for him to engage one of the nation’s most expensive barristers.

This man was known for his anti-West hatred. He told us about it. He was on our radar. He was known to our security services, federal police and NSW police. On November 17, less than a month before he took 17 innocent people hostage, he posted online his hatred of the West, he wrote about his allegiance to Islamic State. Still, we allowed Monis to roam free among us.

Tony Abbott is right to call Islamic State a death cult, but the question must be asked: is the West’s tolerance of the intolerant a death wish? And when many on the Left blindly refuse to identify terrorism, isn’t that furthering the death wish?

When a killer slaughters people in the name of Islam, we should take him at his word. Monis is the newest form of terrorist. There is no Islamic State membership card, no initiation ceremony, no formal welcoming morning tea.

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/opini...165583579?nk=7177fa000449b23f6369bb34ae11489f

 

[CountryRace]

Iran sAid he was a criminal
And Australia told Iran f o

 

[Total Power]

Iran sAid he was a criminal
And Australia told Iran f o

Makes his point even more valid isnt it? google anjem choudhury...one of uk's big problem at the moment, his twitter and youtube is full of hate speeches, he openly admits he supports radicalisation and believes thats his job to "train" allahs warriors and openly pledges allegiance to ISIS .Yet nothings been done to him, how on earth is this bloke free to roam in our society is beyond me.The West have gone soft on these people, not just Australia, yet if i dont pay my council taxes then i am a criminal lol

 

[Express Footy]

Iran sAid he was a criminal
And Australia told Iran f o

Yes, and that just proves how bizarre our decision to want to keep this waste of space was. I'm shocked that there wasn't more of an uproar about this. I mean it ended up costing 4 people their lives (including himself and his ex-wife) and caused huge racial/religious tensions in the public. No one won, everybody lost. Australia needs to grow a spine and kick out the bad eggs when they see them.

 

[Babylove]

The witnesses are getting their paydays now... Check the video in the below news article link for a promo of a hostage interview with 60 minutes... Perhaps it's my pervasive cynicism and admittedly it's a small out of context snippet of a much longer interview, but something is off about it.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/sie...ialSF&utm_source=PerthNow&utm_medium=Facebook

I think most promos feel a little off as networks edit it to make it more dramatic (like this story needs it). I'm kinda glad that we are going to hear the stories of the victims because I'd much rather know their story than that of the deranged gunman (whose name I know but refuse to use).

I really hate the critcism some people are giving them about possibly selling their stories too. We don't know the financial hardship their experience has caused. It is likely many are not working and have had medical expenses for physical a psychological injuries. And apparently the government assistance they have access too is minimal because the terror attack happened on home soil. So if selling their story is carthetic for them and helps ease the financial burden good on them.