List Mgmt. Simpson Delisted

[Frigate]

Dean Kemp went alright at 117.

Hey Silent Alarm, I chuckled at this " was like literally the last or second last pick..." - not one to usually point out these things but it seems to be on topic lol. If you left Hill out of it I would have declared fair bump.

 

[Frank J Moose]

Kemp was drafted in an era when all clubs could only take one West Australian player each except for the Eagles.

Vic clubs still had metro zones. The Eagles had two WA zone players. The recruiting was almost non existant. Comparisons with modern day drafting is like comparing bananas to chainsaws.

 

[hoss]

Find this all a bit disappointing but tend to agree with Ripper that this is just a case of family first. Think it might be a bit harder for a Yamatji (or Wongi etc) kid in the big league and big smoke. Sure you can have mentors but I don't think it's the same as a Noongar player mentoring a Noongar player and guys like Josh obviously don't have the support of so many friends and family living locally or close by like the Noongar players might have.

 

[Purpletown]

Should've clarified, I mean in drafts in general. I'm talking about Dane Swan (58), Simon Black (31), James Hird (79), Fev (38), Sam Mitchell (36), David King and Brent Harvey were 46th picks and then North pinched a WA boy in Andrew Swallow in the second/third round, Port got Robbie Gray at 55... Chris ******* Grant was like literally the last or second last pick... The Crows got Walker in the fourth round. These are great players who clubs lucked out on, sometimes higher in the draft order, and yet people try and imply it is masterful drafting from Freo. It's a load of wank from people who are too positive about a mediocre club

Dean Cox would win the biggest bargain of all time (Rookie selection) IMO. Multiple AA, premiership player and close to 300 games. I know he is and Eagle but still a bargain draft pick. Sandy has been good value too.

 

[clogged]

The whole "Darling is a knob" argument goes out the window for a club that recruited Colin Sylvia.

 

[PapaJ]

Pitt showed nothing but "ehhh" in his AFL games. It's a convenient excuse he has a heart condition because, otherwise, I think he would've been on the delisting table by now. As you said, no killer attribute or two or three to warrant the high selection and nowhere near rounded enough to even be a genuine 22-er. Never saw him as a great white hope or a great footballer.
...

It's convenient because now we can hypothesis and make it out as fact any way we want. Those who think he would have made it can say, "if it wasn't for his heart condition he could have made it, was on the way up etc.", those who never liked him to begin with can say that "he never showed enough and would have been delisted by now".

Closer to the truth is, given his age etc., we don't really know. He's probably not far off where Sherro is at now, something like that anyway (in terms of making it). Pitt could have gone either way, could have become a solid 100+ game player, or could become a AFL write-off. It's just opinion (informed or otherwise) as to which way one might think.

 

[PapaJ]

Dean Cox would win the biggest bargain of all time (Rookie selection) IMO. Multiple AA, premiership player and close to 300 games. I know he is and Eagle but still a bargain draft pick. Sandy has been good value too.

Pretty sure Sandilands was a rookie selection for us, 2nd or 3rd round too ISTR.

 

[Kram]

The whole "Darling is a knob" argument goes out the window for a club that recruited Colin Sylvia.

There was obviously something fairly serious that put clubs off for him to go so low.

 

[Frigate]

Kemp was drafted in an era when all clubs could only take one West Australian player each except for the Eagles.

Vic clubs still had metro zones. The Eagles had two WA zone players. The recruiting was almost non existant. Comparisons with modern day drafting is like comparing bananas to chainsaws.

Yeah but he was a skinny runt from Kalgoorlie and the scouts were still around. Sure the Vic clubs didn't have the intel but the reality is a pick at 117 went on to be one of their best, far better than many picks they had. For me it was an absolute steal. But I guess the Eagles had a lot of them then.

I am not comparing to current day. I think in modern times Gary Ablett junior at 40 was a steal for Geelong -first round pick anyone.... nah he is no chip off the old block!

I concur that Hird was the greatest steal of all time. One of my favourite players to watch. Would watch the games just to see him play. The similarity in game style with Fyfe is uncanny (appreciated by most). To draft someone that becomes the players MVP at 23 tells me that our drafting is not so bad. We did not take Watts, Scully, Trengrove, Rich, Nic Nat.... We traded out Palmer. By the popularity of this thread in off season, I know that most people were happy with the selection of Simpson at the time, who was touted as a top 10 pick.

It is pretty hilarious IMHO. At one moment we are patting ourselves on the back and praising the genius of Lloyd, then we find a way to be disgruntled. The only thing we are missing at the moment is a flag. We have another shot in 2015, but I would say that is the last window of opportunity for us.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

Yeah but he was a skinny runt from Kalgoorlie and the scouts were still around. Sure the Vic clubs didn't have the intel but the reality is a pick at 117 went on to be one of their best, far better than many picks they had. For me it was an absolute steal. But I guess the Eagles had a lot of them then.

I am not comparing to current day. I think in modern times Gary Ablett junior at 40 was a steal for Geelong -first round pick anyone.... nah he is no chip off the old block!

IIRC GAJ was before the bidding system was introduced, where teams were only allowed to nominate one FS for a third round pick

 

[Silent Alarm]

The whole "Darling is a knob" argument goes out the window for a club that recruited Colin Sylvia.

The Swans recruited a money hungry grub in Tiprat and old Buddy (who, to be fair, I don't really hate – he doesn't king hit citizens, doesn't do anything other than what any other 20-something multi-millionaire would) and still get paraded as having a great culture. Not to mention old Hanners having tickets when he was 17. It's all a load of s**t. People will wax lyrical about having decent dudes, and in all honesty, Fremantle have never had too many bad people representing them – far less than other sides. And that's something to be happy about, but everyone would cash that in for premierships yet nobody wants to accept that: that, basically, it's akin to saying "well, at least we have our own home ground!" when comparing the Suns to Collingwood. It's illogical and pointless, even if nice.

Sylvia is a man who went to court for hitting a woman. I always remember even the most hardened of pricks looking down on that. Rightfully. It's heinous. But the fact everyone lets this go by, but smugly looks down on the Eagles for picking up Darling (who it seems you can ask 10 people what the story is, and they'll tell you 10 different stories backed up with "mate, I know the guy who caught him, it's absolutely true, no lie, this bloke would not lie"). Sure, the Eagles are scummy, but they also won a flag with a bunch of scummy pricks

 

[clogged]

There was obviously something fairly serious that put clubs off for him to go so low.

I actually think between 16 and 30 was around fair. He is undersized for a KPP but has the KPP frame meaning midfield is probably out of the question. He plays well in a team with a true key forward and would be even better surrounded by true small forwards.

Certainly not a steal of the century, but he's a better footballer than around a quarter of the idealised Freo best 22, and easily better than half the forward line.

If Pitt was still at the club in 2014 I couldn't say with confidence who in the best 22 he would have ended up displacing, but Darling you can easily pick out two or three he would be better than.

 

[pokerspiv]

Perth is a very small place. You have no idea how many current, former and future AFL I am acquainted with.

Jeremy Howe was already 20 when drafted. That's the age you have written Pitt off at.

I haven't said a word about Pitt.

I was just pointing out that there were some decent players in that draft.

 

[Agenfrida]

If Pitt was still at the club in 2014 I couldn't say with confidence who in the best 22 he would have ended up displacing, but Darling you can easily pick out two or three he would be better than.

It's all pie in the sky, but I reckon a fair comparison would have been Sutty. I think they had similar attributes, accurate kick, good tank. Pitt was skinnier than most when drafted. Probably would have been each others main competition for a spot in the side, and I'm tipping Sutty might have just kept him out.

 

[pokerspiv]

There was obviously something fairly serious that put clubs off for him to go so low.

Wasn't he injured for a fair portion of the year before the draft? I think that had an effect.

 

[Steinfreo]

The Swans recruited a money hungry grub in Tiprat and old Buddy (who, to be fair, I don't really hate – he doesn't king hit citizens, doesn't do anything other than what any other 20-something multi-millionaire would) and still get paraded as having a great culture. Not to mention old Hanners having tickets when he was 17. It's all a load of s**t. People will wax lyrical about having decent dudes, and in all honesty, Fremantle have never had too many bad people representing them – far less than other sides. And that's something to be happy about, but everyone would cash that in for premierships yet nobody wants to accept that: that, basically, it's akin to saying "well, at least we have our own home ground!" when comparing the Suns to Collingwood. It's illogical and pointless, even if nice.

Sylvia is a man who went to court for hitting a woman. I always remember even the most hardened of pricks looking down on that. Rightfully. It's heinous. But the fact everyone lets this go by, but smugly looks down on the Eagles for picking up Darling (who it seems you can ask 10 people what the story is, and they'll tell you 10 different stories backed up with "mate, I know the guy who caught him, it's absolutely true, no lie, this bloke would not lie"). Sure, the Eagles are scummy, but they also won a flag with a bunch of scummy pricks

This is pretty conspiracy theoryish but i think it was fabricated so the eags could take him in the 20s and no one in the east would touch him. He carried on about wanting the be an eag so much it was all very strange.

 

[Silent Alarm]

I have heard some heinous stories from one bigfooty poster (who's sadly MIA at the mo, his lucid and romantic perceptions always shone through in his posts) and some less appalling comments from others. I have no idea who to believe but the idea that the Eagles were happy with it is unsurprising. I reckon it'd happen a little

 

[counting bodies like sheep]

The thing is, I just don't think players sook that easily. I reckon it takes a few dominos for it to all come to that end. I honestly think there's more to this and we'll never know

So you defend Simpson, potentially our worst ever pick, yet bag hill, who other than pav is potentially our best ever first round pick..... Wow... Just... Staggered

 

[counting bodies like sheep]

Pretty sure Sandilands was a rookie selection for us, 2nd or 3rd round too ISTR.

Yep, if I had the choice for either... I actually don't know who I woukd take...

 

[Frank J Moose]

Yep, if I had the choice for either... I actually don't know who I woukd take...

Look at the result of the ruck contests in Freo v West Coast games from the last 8 years. They pretty much follow the team that dominated the ruck. That's who I would pick

 

[PapaJ]

IIRC GAJ was before the bidding system was introduced, where teams were only allowed to nominate one FS for a third round pick

Certainly was. Him Scarlett and Hawkins are the notable ones they all got for 3rd round picks. Plus a few others around the same time that were serviceable (e.g. Blake). It was their extensive use and success with F/S that was a major reason for the changes ISTR.

Though a point should be made that the talk at the time with GAJ is that he probably would have slid to 2nd round at best if Geelong didn't exercise their right to him. Not sure myself, but that is what people say.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

People really overrate Fyfe. He's a very, very good footballer and he's only ever going to get better, but Black, Swan, and Mitchell are amazing footballers. And considering they were picked higher, surely that makes them better steals?

You were going well for a while there young fella but Fyfe is not overrated. FCS, only corruption has prevented him from having a brownlow medal; so early in his career too.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

The whole "Darling is a knob" argument goes out the window for a club that recruited Colin Sylvia.

In your opinion.
Colin isn't done yet. Very likely his first season has mitigating factors.
We'll know mid 2015.

 

[clogged]

In your opinion.
Colin isn't done yet. Very likely his first season has mitigating factors.
We'll know mid 2015.

He's a 28 year old player whose career highlights consist of the occasional front running game against Richmond. We already know.

 

[johnnomac]

Find this all a bit disappointing but tend to agree with Ripper that this is just a case of family first. Think it might be a bit harder for a Yamatji (or Wongi etc) kid in the big league and big smoke. Sure you can have mentors but I don't think it's the same as a Noongar player mentoring a Noongar player and guys like Josh obviously don't have the support of so many friends and family living locally or close by like the Noongar players might have.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

The Club provides an environment to help develop all of our young blokes. In addition, it has committed extra resources to try and assist those aboriginal boys we pick up. In Josh's case, we put in another layer of support to try and get him back "on track" with his AFL career. In the end, the player has to want this AFL career. The Club can't do everything, that is, each player has to take personal responsibility and meet his obligations and the Club must meet theirs.
When you boil down what has happened with Josh (and what we can learn from for the future) is;
Before being drafted, Josh wanted to play footy. It's logical that he would be drawn towards wanting to play in the premier competition, the AFL. But when he got there, he probably found that it wasn't what he thought it would be. That happens in life (work, relationships, etc) to all of us. So Josh realised AFL wasn't what he imagined it would be. What brought this into focus for him, only he can say, but some factors could be;
He probably realised family and community was more important to him than AFL, and
He didn't see playing footy in the way others do. Maybe he just enjoys playing footy for the joy of it, and not as just a job (which it is at AFL level).

And what of the Club? Did it do enough, or was it never going to be enough to get Josh to want to play AFL (over and above the pull of family, etc)?