Snoops Annual Player Review, List and Draft Strategy

[Embleberry]

Anyway looks like we could have a great draft night. Assume we take picks then suspect Lions will need to deliver 2 first rounders and if Moore can slip to 2nd round we will probably have 3 first round selections and a 2nd (Lumumba) and Moore as well. We'll be the new GWS / Suns in terms of quality kids.

I can certainly live with the influx of young talent we currently have and potentially add to with Beams leaving. Adams, Grundy, Broomhead, Kennedy, Freeman, Scharenberg (in terms of first round talent, the latter two not having played a game yet but both address needs for out team), then we also have the likes of Witts, Elliott, Langdon, Keeffe, Seedsman, Fasolo, Thomas, Williams who are also in that younger age bracket showing some good signs at AFL level. That's not to mention others with potential Karnezis, Frost, Marsh, Gault. I'm sure I'm missing a couple of players.
With Beams leaving it's highly likely we'll end up with Pick 4 and perhaps another late 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder. If we add Moore to that then there's some more young talent coming through - which hopefully Hine can pick up some gems. I wouldn't mind us on-trading pick 4 and whatnot onto GWS to obtain a Shiel, O'Rourke etc
However, I'm concerned that we're losing too much experience particularly with Lumumba and Beams leaving. We will seriously be one of the youngest lists in the competition. We need a few of the more experienced guys to step up in terms of leadership.
Here's to an exciting trade and draft period! (Y)

 

[zhoung]

Well apparently they are not interested anymore which is real bad news for us.

Eddie was interesting on the radio this morning. He is clearly 'filthy' and I would think coupled with Buckleys comments 'about needing to give fans some good news' has got them pretty focussed on getting an outcome which works. Problem is the trade will go right to the wire unless Adelaide Dangerfield come into the picture. Wouldnt have thought would be real difficult to convince Aish or Mayes to go home and would think Crows would be happy with that for Dangerfield.......if Dangerfield wants to come home. If not then I think we are going to be well short in all this.

Buckley also should have chosen his words more wisely over weekend. Telling everyone your premiership chances drop significantly without Beams doenst send a great msg to Clark.I would have thought that makes him think long and hard about Cats.

Anyway I am not as fussed about Clark. We have White, Reid and Cloke for up front and thats dangerous enough. We need help in other areas. He would be nice but he is no sure thing in the best 22 for mine.

Anyway looks like we could have a great draft night. Assume we take picks then suspect Lions will need to deliver 2 first rounders and if Moore can slip to 2nd round we will probably have 3 first round selections and a 2nd (Lumumba) and Moore as well. We'll be the new GWS / Suns in terms of quality kids.

 

[zhoung]

Snoop what about pick 4 and brissy trading to get Tom Mitchell from swans to Pies, at least gets us 21 yo ball magnet looking for more opportunity maybe not enough but not exactly the steak knives bandied around.

 

[Gone Critical]

Snoop what about pick 4 and brissy trading to get Tom Mitchell from swans to Pies, at least gets us 21 yo ball magnet looking for more opportunity maybe not enough but not exactly the steak knives bandied around.

Can't see Mitchell being worth pick 4. He can't get a game at Sydney.

 

[rustyg70]

Snoop what about pick 4 and brissy trading to get Tom Mitchell from swans to Pies, at least gets us 21 yo ball magnet looking for more opportunity maybe not enough but not exactly the steak knives bandied around.

I think Mitchell said yesterday that he wants to remain a Swan.

 

[zhoung]

I think Mitchell said yesterday that he wants to remain a Swan.

Well Carlton are rumoured to be interested at 6, may give us some leverage come them bidding on Moore.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I can certainly live with the influx of young talent we currently have and potentially add to with Beams leaving. Adams, Grundy, Broomhead, Kennedy, Freeman, Scharenberg (in terms of first round talent, the latter two not having played a game yet but both address needs for out team), then we also have the likes of Witts, Elliott, Langdon, Keeffe, Seedsman, Fasolo, Thomas, Williams who are also in that younger age bracket showing some good signs at AFL level. That's not to mention others with potential Karnezis, Frost, Marsh, Gault. I'm sure I'm missing a couple of players.
With Beams leaving it's highly likely we'll end up with Pick 4 and perhaps another late 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder. If we add Moore to that then there's some more young talent coming through - which hopefully Hine can pick up some gems. I wouldn't mind us on-trading pick 4 and whatnot onto GWS to obtain a Shiel, O'Rourke etc
However, I'm concerned that we're losing too much experience particularly with Lumumba and Beams leaving. We will seriously be one of the youngest lists in the competition. We need a few of the more experienced guys to step up in terms of leadership.
Here's to an exciting trade and draft period! (Y)

Terrific post. Agree completely our list of kids is and will be impressive when pick 4 and Moore are added to it and I am quite confident the quality of this draft will see us land 1 or 2 in the 2nd round that will be good prospects as well.

I'm not sold on Rourke but I wouldnt mind betting we end up with him in a 3 way deal with Brisbane. Ie we get Jono and pick 4. Lions will give their 2nd round away I suspect.

Dont forget the war chest Collingwood will have next year. In some ways I am happy for them to blood the kids through next year and then look for 1-2 really good free agents then. There are plenty coming out next year and there are a heap of players contracts who will lapse (eg Shiel / Cameron etc).

Re the experience - yeah its an issue but if Reid, Goldsack, Toovey and BRown stay fit then there is enough in the back half and then with Swan, Pendles, Sidey in the middle you have a few as well. Forward is probably the issue but kids like Elliott will use as a chance to step up and so to should Adams.

I'm still bullish about '16 / 17 being the years as confident in the kids and the fact we will have $1-1.5m to spend.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Snoop what about pick 4 and brissy trading to get Tom Mitchell from swans to Pies, at least gets us 21 yo ball magnet looking for more opportunity maybe not enough but not exactly the steak knives bandied around.

yeah but i think Tom is pretty committed to the Swans. Certainly would be handy but I think he would cost a 10-20 selection and not sure how Lions would get that pick given view on their 'untouchables'. I think it is likely one of the following happens;

pick 4 and Redden......probably a bit hopeful
pick 4 and Lester / Crisp or Cutler
pick 4 and Lions 2 round
pick 4 and Lions deliver us Rourke.

 

[swiftdog]

Feel like this offseason will go much better if we can snare Moore with our second pick. This might not be too bad a scenario:

Moore at pick 29

Collingwood -> Beams to Brisbane
Brisbane -> 4, (24), and say Crisp to Collingwood

Collingwood -> 4 & 8 to Adelaide
Adelaide -> Dangerfield to Collingwood

Net outlay here would be:
Out - Beams, 8
In - Dangerfield, Crisp, (24)

Obviously we're paying overs to an extent here but I doubt we're going to pick up a player of Beams' quality without actually keeping him. Maybe try sling Lumumba to Melbourne for pick 20 (if that ends up being their compo pick) or 23. Chase up Shaun Higgins as a free agent and things might look a little better. If we could get Adelaide's pick 29 in the Danger deal also that could be good.

Out - Beams, Lumumba, 8
In - Dangerfield, Crisp, Higgins (RFA, only 26), Moore (pick 29), 20/23, 24, 29

Yep, probably not going to happen but I don't think all is lost yet. Of course the more likely scenario is that we need to use pick 8 on Moore in the first place. Experienced midfielders though consisting of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Dangerfield, Swan, Higgins with the likes of Adams/Crisp/Broomhead/Thomas/Kennedy/Freeman/Williams etc developing along with 3 live picks in the 20's doesn't look too bad.

 

[Ketchup]

Feel like this offseason will go much better if we can snare Moore with our second pick. This might not be too bad a scenario:

Moore at pick 29

Collingwood -> Beams to Brisbane
Brisbane -> 4, (24), and say Crisp to Collingwood

Collingwood -> 4 & 8 to Adelaide
Adelaide -> Dangerfield to Collingwood

Net outlay here would be:
Out - Beams, 8
In - Dangerfield, Crisp, (24)

Obviously we're paying overs to an extent here but I doubt we're going to pick up a player of Beams' quality without actually keeping him. Maybe try sling Lumumba to Melbourne for pick 20 (if that ends up being their compo pick) or 23. Chase up Shaun Higgins as a free agent and things might look a little better. If we could get Adelaide's pick 29 in the Danger deal also that could be good.

Out - Beams, Lumumba, 8
In - Dangerfield, Crisp, Higgins (RFA, only 26), Moore (pick 29), 20/23, 24, 29

Yep, probably not going to happen but I don't think all is lost yet. Of course the more likely scenario is that we need to use pick 8 on Moore in the first place. Experienced midfielders though consisting of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Dangerfield, Swan, Higgins with the likes of Adams/Crisp/Broomhead/Thomas/Kennedy/Freeman/Williams etc developing along with 3 live picks in the 20's doesn't look too bad.

As Snoop said, I think we will have a sizable enough warchest next season, IF Moore somehow drops to a second round I think we would be crazy not to just cop next season and blood the kids and take 4 and 8 to the draft.

Next season, Dangerfield, Cotchin, Taylor Walker, Ryan Griffen, Jack Steven, Andrew Swallow. If the AFL cuts back to seven years for free agency, Rory Sloane, Luke Shuey, Daniel Rich can be added to that list. Obviously not all will leave, but you would think we would have sufficient money to have a big dig at one of them. Obviously just the midfielders are listed there, and Taylor Walker, for obvious reasons as he is a star. But when I think of Adelaide, I think Tex walker.

And hopefully sign up Pendles next year, so we don't have him approachable as a Free agent in 2016 haha

 

[swiftdog]

As Snoop said, I think we will have a sizable enough warchest next season, IF Moore somehow drops to a second round I think we would be crazy not to just cop next season and blood the kids and take 4 and 8 to the draft.

Next season, Dangerfield, Cotchin, Taylor Walker, Ryan Griffen, Jack Steven, Andrew Swallow. If the AFL cuts back to seven years for free agency, Rory Sloane, Luke Shuey, Daniel Rich can be added to that list. Obviously not all will leave, but you would think we would have sufficient money to have a big dig at one of them. Obviously just the midfielders are listed there, and Taylor Walker, for obvious reasons as he is a star. But when I think of Adelaide, I think Tex walker.

And hopefully sign up Pendles next year, so we don't have him approachable as a Free agent in 2016 haha

Yeah I do like the idea of a warchest even if it means we're compensated unders for Beams. The problem still is there's still a cap floor to reach so there's always going to be a limit to warchests (although I imagine we're comfortably above the floor anyway). All those players listed I'd rather than Higgins, was thinking we could get him on the relatively cheap though. Tex would be an amazing get!

 

[Snoop Dog]

I think we need to get our heads around this a 'rebuild' now. As Hine said this morning we've lost a lot of experience and its not easy to find ready made quality to put them back in. The worst thing we can do now is try and grab a bunch of 'B' graders. We need A graders otherwise use the picks develop them and spend the warchest next year.

I think we need to focus on what to do with abundance of draft selections we are going to have.

What are the real needs. My sense is we probably need a spare key back, ruck and then the rest are mids and small fwds.

 

[dubber]

I think we need to get our heads around this a 'rebuild' now. As Hine said this morning we've lost a lot of experience and its not easy to find ready made quality to put them back in. The worst thing we can do now is try and grab a bunch of 'B' graders. We need A graders otherwise use the picks develop them and spend the warchest next year.

I think we need to focus on what to do with abundance of draft selections we are going to have.

What are the real needs. My sense is we probably need a spare key back, ruck and then the rest are mids and small fwds.

I actually think we need someone to help Cloke up forward which will free up Reid to go back. Then you have Ried, Brown, Keeffe & Frost, i like that backline, its not too shabby.

I think we should pick up Jeff Garlett from the blues, he needs a change of scenery & will be good support for Elliot up forward. Failing that Ahmed Saad if available. We should also make a play for one of the GWS kids that are wanting to come home.

 

[jmac70]

I think we need to get our heads around this a 'rebuild' now. As Hine said this morning we've lost a lot of experience and its not easy to find ready made quality to put them back in. The worst thing we can do now is try and grab a bunch of 'B' graders. We need A graders otherwise use the picks develop them and spend the warchest next year.

I think we need to focus on what to do with abundance of draft selections we are going to have.

What are the real needs. My sense is we probably need a spare key back, ruck and then the rest are mids and small fwds.

Mids and small forwards for mine. We need to move away from three big forwards and try and get a large spread of goal kickers. I think Elliott will play a lot more midfield next season so we really need to replace his position in the forward line.

 

[dubber]

Mids and small forwards for mine. We need to move away from three big forwards and try and get a large spread of goal kickers. I think Elliott will play a lot more midfield next season so we really need to replace his position in the forward line.

Yep, I'm with you on this. Small zippy forwards & big mids are scarce at Westpac.

 

[Snoop Dog]

By my thinking we most likely will end up with these selections.

# 5 - from Lions for Beams
# 9 - Collingwood Rd 1
# 23 - Melbourne Rd 2 for Lumumba
# 25 - Lions Rd 2 for Beams
# 29 - Collingwood Rd 2
# 45 - Collingwood Rd 3

That will give us the 6 selections we have available. Maybe they will hit a Greenwood, Schoenmakers but I think we are in a rebuild.

My ideal would be;

# 5 - Laverde - x factor HF type who is 190cm and can change a game.
# 9 - Moore - no chance for mine that he slips
# 23 - Blakely - I think its unlikely he slips this far but tall strong midfielder from WA
# 25 - Gartlett - speedy small fwd, wing type who will start as a Gartlett type player but could turn into a Hill / Pearce sort
# 29 - Cavka - Wing with outrageous beep and can hit scoreboard. Tough and reminds of Hannebery at same age.
# 45 - Cockatoo - Strong HF type with outstanding speed and good height

With the rookie selections I would aim for a back up ruck prospect but I dont think it needs to be a mature age one given Witts and Grundy are getting there and then another tall back prospect. I'd also aim at Matt Panos who could go through the midfield and is a strong body as well as Shane Yarran who is a small fwd.

 

[rustyg70]

Connor Blakely has just won this years WAFL Rising Star Award.
Jarrod Pickett and Brendon Abbott tied for 2nd.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

By my thinking we most likely will end up with these selections.

# 5 - from Lions for Beams
# 9 - Collingwood Rd 1
# 23 - Melbourne Rd 2 for Lumumba
# 25 - Lions Rd 2 for Beams
# 29 - Collingwood Rd 2
# 45 - Collingwood Rd 3

That will give us the 6 selections we have available. Maybe they will hit a Greenwood, Schoenmakers but I think we are in a rebuild.

My ideal would be;

# 5 - Laverde - x factor HF type who is 190cm and can change a game.
# 9 - Moore - no chance for mine that he slips
# 23 - Blakely - I think its unlikely he slips this far but tall strong midfielder from WA
# 25 - Gartlett - speedy small fwd, wing type who will start as a Gartlett type player but could turn into a Hill / Pearce sort
# 29 - Cavka - Wing with outrageous beep and can hit scoreboard. Tough and reminds of Hannebery at same age.
# 45 - Cockatoo - Strong HF type with outstanding speed and good height

With the rookie selections I would aim for a back up ruck prospect but I dont think it needs to be a mature age one given Witts and Grundy are getting there and then another tall back prospect. I'd also aim at Matt Panos who could go through the midfield and is a strong body as well as Shane Yarran who is a small fwd.

Seems reasonable:
Senior list
IN: Picks 5, 9, 23, 25, 29, 45, Frost (promoted rookie)
OUT: Maxwell, Lumumba, Clarke, Ball, Beams, Lynch, Hudson

Rookie List
IN: Cox, Picks 8, 28
OUT: Mooney, Yagmoor, Frost

Gault and Martin retained on rookie list.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Seems reasonable:
Senior list
IN: Picks 5, 9, 23, 25, 29, 45, Frost (promoted rookie)
OUT: Maxwell, Lumumba, Clarke, Ball, Beams, Lynch, Hudson

Rookie List
IN: Cox, Picks 8, 28
OUT: Mooney, Yagmoor, Frost

Gault and Martin retained on rookie list.

and promoted immediately for the 2 LTI's

 

[Snoop Dog]

Connor Blakely has just won this years WAFL Rising Star Award.
Jarrod Pickett and Brendon Abbott tied for 2nd.

There are a few questions on Connor's kicking so watch for that at DC. He is exceptional around the stoppages though and stands circa 189cm. Played seniors with Swans and was v v good.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Seems reasonable:
Senior list
IN: Picks 5, 9, 23, 25, 29, 45, Frost (promoted rookie)
OUT: Maxwell, Lumumba, Clarke, Ball, Beams, Lynch, Hudson

Rookie List
IN: Cox, Picks 8, 28
OUT: Mooney, Yagmoor, Frost

Gault and Martin retained on rookie list.

I believe Martin will be upgraded to the senior list if my tomato sauce is correct.

 

[rustyg70]

There are a few questions on Connor's kicking so watch for that at DC. He is exceptional around the stoppages though and stands circa 189cm. Played seniors with Swans and was v v good.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see where he goes.
He has got great awareness and vision around the stoppages.
I know that he was someone that the Pies scouts have had their eye on this year.

 

[Rusty Beam]

By my thinking we most likely will end up with these selections.

# 5 - from Lions for Beams
# 9 - Collingwood Rd 1
# 23 - Melbourne Rd 2 for Lumumba
# 25 - Lions Rd 2 for Beams
# 29 - Collingwood Rd 2
# 45 - Collingwood Rd 3

That will give us the 6 selections we have available. Maybe they will hit a Greenwood, Schoenmakers but I think we are in a rebuild.

My ideal would be;

# 5 - Laverde - x factor HF type who is 190cm and can change a game.
# 9 - Moore - no chance for mine that he slips
# 23 - Blakely - I think its unlikely he slips this far but tall strong midfielder from WA
# 25 - Gartlett - speedy small fwd, wing type who will start as a Gartlett type player but could turn into a Hill / Pearce sort
# 29 - Cavka - Wing with outrageous beep and can hit scoreboard. Tough and reminds of Hannebery at same age.
# 45 - Cockatoo - Strong HF type with outstanding speed and good height

With the rookie selections I would aim for a back up ruck prospect but I dont think it needs to be a mature age one given Witts and Grundy are getting there and then another tall back prospect. I'd also aim at Matt Panos who could go through the midfield and is a strong body as well as Shane Yarran who is a small fwd.

Obviously Blakely in particular could be that beams type of midfielder, but I'm still hoping Grace and/or Urban get a look in.

We need to build back up our contested ball winning and first clearance ability and in my view these two are the best at it.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Obviously Blakely in particular could be that beams type of midfielder, but I'm still hoping Grace and/or Urban get a look in.

We need to build back up our contested ball winning and first clearance ability and in my view these two are the best at it.

I like them both but I think they will be further down the order and we will be out by then.....unless they get to rookie draft. Urban only 179cm and I'd rather a taller kid.

Who do you rate early in the draft who is tall and a contested ball winner.

Blakely, Lamb, Bampton are a few off the top of my head. Weller would be ideal but probably gone by our picks in the 20's. Left fielder for mine is Cockatoo.

 

[Rusty Beam]

I like them both but I think they will be further down the order and we will be out by then.....unless they get to rookie draft. Urban only 179cm and I'd rather a taller kid.

Who do you rate early in the draft who is tall and a contested ball winner.

Blakely, Lamb, Bampton are a few off the top of my head. Weller would be ideal but probably gone by our picks in the 20's. Left fielder for mine is Cockatoo.

Yeah, I was thinking Grace/Urban late in the draft - even for that pick in the 40's instead of Nakia.

The obvious one is Brayshaw. If he, by some fluke of nature, happens to be there at 5, I think we need to snap him up.

Again, De Goey is another who, if he slides, you snap up with that potential pick from Melbourne. Just a ferocious monster with massive scope.But that's unlikely, and if anything he will be taken earlier than expected.

Bampton doesn't offer enough light and shade for me. His work outside of the stoppages isn't anywhere near where you want it to be and let's face it our skills and spread are pretty deplorable.

With Lamb you've just got to question the mindset and that in itself would be enough to turn a club off him.

As irrational as it is I would be scared off Weller anyway, particularly given the Beams situation (same could also apply for Blakely).

So I guess that's why I'm keen on either Grace / Urban. Whilst not flashy, they are consistent inside and outside players and won't command a high pick.

I also hope, regardless of the midfield issues, we scoop up either Mclean or Langdon to develop some greater xfactor within the forward line. At the moment I think it's pretty dire.