Analysis Speculation best team in 2016: List & depth analysis

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Mayne had limitations as a player when we drafted him, and he's battled and worked hard to get the best out of himself over his career. Other than 2012/13 which were the exception rather than the rule, he's just been trier. But as of today he's our first choice third tall forward, and he'll remain that until such time as a Crozier, Balic or Yarran proves that they can play the role better.
Agree. I think Lyon is an astute judge of footballing ability and he has a great record of extracting the most out of players, notably ones with limitations such as Mayne. Team rules would be geared towards maximising their output (such as not to take a shot from outside 50 if there is a better option). If someone steps up to play the role better I am sure they will be selected, but as Crozier has shown, it is not simple and does take time.
 
Liking your thinking - I think these kinds of expectations would be realistic:
  • Walters 44 goals (2 g/g on par with 2015)
  • Pavlich 40 goals (1.8 g/g on par with 2015)
  • Mayne 35 goals (1.6 g/g up from 1.3 g/g in 2015, < 2013,2012 form)
  • Balla 35 goals (1.6 g/g up from 1 g/g in 2015, < 2014 form)
  • Yarran 35 goals (1.6 g/g)
  • TOTAL 189 goals (~8.6 g/g)
It's a very short forward line but it's very dynamic - and at least we know they have all scored those kinds of numbers before at AFL level (except SY). You add in a tall to make up the 6 - Griffin/Tabs/Apeness and expect them to get at least a goal a game and we are getting the kind of output we need from our forward line. Not sure we'll go in with a forward line that short but otherwise I'm not sure we have any talls that can produce anything close to these kinds of numbers at AFL level. So we'd be taking a gamble by playing them and more than likely reducing our scoreboard impact whilst they develop (but maybe we should take the hit for long term gain?).
With a short forward line I would expect us to have fewer players playing forward. We do that already anyway. For me a forward line like that needs players who can play midfield. Again, most of ours can and do, but I don't know how Yarran goes. Does anyone have knowledge of his ability?
 
Does Mayne need an excuse?????? In that case, what was the excuse for Ballas and Pav's grand final performance??? And what is Fyes excuse for the shots on goal he took at the gf. I don't think any of them need an excuse.

A friend of mine sees Pavlich as our biggest failure because, in his view, whenever the game is on the line he fails. I don't see it that way, l also saw Ballas having a poor year but I don't think he or Mayne will be passed over for round one next year.

Mayne and Ballas have played at an elite level for this club in the past and I reckon they can again.
He's still a friend even after you belted him???
 

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Rather than thinking about how to replace Mayne, we should be thinking about how to return Mayne to his form from 2012/2013.
By making him and all others accountable against measures that are more aligned to our overall objective of winning a flag. He's a forward. A key performance measure should be to kick goals. That the players openly flout that they are not rated on kicking goals is symbolic of a defensive style of play and mindset that has been set from above that has been proven to fall short. That is what I want to see changed. Would it be asking too much for Mayne to be measured against a Gunston, a Breust or a Stringer's past season. Some like to point to stats - they're kicking in excess of 50 goals and averaging more than 2 goals a game. Ballantyne kicked 49 goals in 2014 and that's where he needs to be. The powers that be have to support our forwards with an attacking game plan and make them accountable against relevant measures that are aimed at winning games and less focussed on not losing them. When we get the ascendancy in a game, we should be hammering it home rather than slipping into preservation mode. Opposition teams know we leave the door open.
 
Of the new recruits Collins has the best body development and Yarran the proven record of kicking goals be it WAFL form IMO having seen them in the flesh.
 
The real problem that no one is addressing here is the failure of Sumich as our forward coach in improving any of the forwards to AFL standard .
Mayne was the only feather in his cap . Taberner , Crozier and Clarke have shown very little improvement over the last 2 years .
How long should he be given as the forward coach to get the results needed .I would suggest that he should have gone well before now.
The first 9 games of last season saw the midfield dominate but our forwards didn't break any records kicking goals or winning margins improve .
 
He's still a friend even after you belted him???

Very hard to remain sane when he starts on the Pavlich is overrated. For a smart guy, it just shows how many of us can become blinded by just an incident or two and then try to (wrongly) define their entire career on those errors. Have got to the stage of the nod and just move on to the next conversation.
 
The real problem that no one is addressing here is the failure of Sumich as our forward coach in improving any of the forwards to AFL standard .
Mayne was the only feather in his cap . Taberner , Crozier and Clarke have shown very little improvement over the last 2 years .
How long should he be given as the forward coach to get the results needed .I would suggest that he should have gone well before now.
The first 9 games of last season saw the midfield dominate but our forwards didn't break any records kicking goals or winning margins improve .


In a round about way you may get your wish. The 6PR boys (Haggers included) were suggesting that Sumich may have a change of role (Director of Coaching) under only Lyon and no designated area on match day. Hale as the potential forward coach (cant see the reasoning behind that choice!)
 
The real problem that no one is addressing here is the failure of Sumich as our forward coach in improving any of the forwards to AFL standard .
Mayne was the only feather in his cap . Taberner , Crozier and Clarke have shown very little improvement over the last 2 years .
How long should he be given as the forward coach to get the results needed .I would suggest that he should have gone well before now.
The first 9 games of last season saw the midfield dominate but our forwards didn't break any records kicking goals or winning margins improve .
You are a bit late with this suggestion. We apparently have a new forward coach.
 
On a positive note, at least all the players that get a bit of grief on these forums (and quite rightly) work their guts out for the team. I saw on the TV, Muz and DeBoer running their hearts out a week ago, as usual, during their break.

In Pav's book he makes reference to senior players often coasting and expecting games in his earlier years.
 
While at training Doorman and I were talking to Hale and he is not the forward coach .He will be the Ruck Coach and a development \ line coach at Peel .
 

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If you want to know anything about Freo's list ask that Saints poster Defacto . If there is a thread anywhere that mentions Freo or Ross there he is with his so called infinite knowledge on all things Freo. Shame he knows nothing about his own clubs list . Maybe he does and is sick to his guts by the Saints own ineptness and can't bring himself to think about them . He suffers from the green eyed monster like nobody I have ever known . He is a Freo stalker ,obsessed beyond belief.
 
I get a little frustrated reading posts about how good Crozier is as opposed to Mayne .
Mayne has held his position in the team because we have not had a player better than him in the role that RTB has used . .

Nobody else has ever been given a chance. He's never been dropped, and was brought back into the side last year even when he was injured, and played like s**t for the entire season.
 
ICrozier is a forward pocket player that is evasive and quick in tight spaces . He has lightning reflexes and snaps goals .

He is also a better contested mark than Mayne, Quicker than Mayne, and can kick goals from 60m out.
 
A big part of his best output was a high conversion rate, kicking 37.12 and 39.7

And it's become pretty obvious that was an outlier, a fluke. Nobody in AFL history has been able to maintain that conversion rate. He had a purple patch, now he's bog average at best.
 
If you want to know anything about Freo's list ask that Saints poster Defacto . If there is a thread anywhere that mentions Freo or Ross there he is with his so called infinite knowledge on all things Freo. Shame he knows nothing about his own clubs list . Maybe he does and is sick to his guts by the Saints own ineptness and can't bring himself to think about them . He suffers from the green eyed monster like nobody I have ever known . He is a Freo stalker ,obsessed beyond belief.

I'm destroying him in 2 threads at the moment argument wise. It's like debating a primary school kid.
 
By making him and all others accountable against measures that are more aligned to our overall objective of winning a flag. He's a forward. A key performance measure should be to kick goals. That the players openly flout that they are not rated on kicking goals is symbolic of a defensive style of play and mindset that has been set from above that has been proven to fall short. That is what I want to see changed. Would it be asking too much for Mayne to be measured against a Gunston, a Breust or a Stringer's past season. Some like to point to stats - they're kicking in excess of 50 goals and averaging more than 2 goals a game. Ballantyne kicked 49 goals in 2014 and that's where he needs to be. The powers that be have to support our forwards with an attacking game plan and make them accountable against relevant measures that are aimed at winning games and less focussed on not losing them. When we get the ascendancy in a game, we should be hammering it home rather than slipping into preservation mode. Opposition teams know we leave the door open.

Absolutely right. Sorry for quoting whole thing, I am not permitted to "like" posts.
 
Nobody else has ever been given a chance. He's never been dropped, and was brought back into the side last year even when he was injured, and played like s**t for the entire season.
Mayne best is 2013 at age 25 after that going downhill.
 
The real problem that no one is addressing here is the failure of Sumich as our forward coach in improving any of the forwards to AFL standard .
Mayne was the only feather in his cap . Taberner , Crozier and Clarke have shown very little improvement over the last 2 years .
How long should he be given as the forward coach to get the results needed .I would suggest that he should have gone well before now.
The first 9 games of last season saw the midfield dominate but our forwards didn't break any records kicking goals or winning margins improve .
I've addressed that plenty of times! When we heard we were losing coaches, I was hoping it was Suma so we could get someone new.

He is also a better contested mark than Mayne, Quicker than Mayne, and can kick goals from 60m out.
It'd be bloody hard for Crozier to play consistent footy at AFL level, when he's not getting AFL games consistently. I think if we've got 2 average mid-sized forwards to chose from, the younger, more skillful, more upside Crozier should be the one getting the job
 
By making him and all others accountable against measures that are more aligned to our overall objective of winning a flag. He's a forward. A key performance measure should be to kick goals. That the players openly flout that they are not rated on kicking goals is symbolic of a defensive style of play and mindset that has been set from above that has been proven to fall short. That is what I want to see changed. Would it be asking too much for Mayne to be measured against a Gunston, a Breust or a Stringer's past season. Some like to point to stats - they're kicking in excess of 50 goals and averaging more than 2 goals a game. Ballantyne kicked 49 goals in 2014 and that's where he needs to be. The powers that be have to support our forwards with an attacking game plan and make them accountable against relevant measures that are aimed at winning games and less focussed on not losing them. When we get the ascendancy in a game, we should be hammering it home rather than slipping into preservation mode. Opposition teams know we leave the door open.
Sounds fine to me so long as Freo adopts an offensive game plan like Hawthorn otherwise you are comparing apples with oranges. Which actually illustrates my mindset with our forward line really well. The problem isn't just the personnel, we need to add more offensive aspects to our game plan. Once that happens then the players who are scorers and those that are not will become more clear and make selections relatively simple. I keep hearing how there are all these players that would be better than Mayne but some how there is always a convenient excuse as to why they haven't shown it yet. "But Mayne's not as good as Gunston or Breust", which forward on our list is? I don't remember anyone kicking 50+ in 2015 for us, does that mean all our forwards are rubbish?
 

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