Delisted Spencer White

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SaintLex said:
Of course it is a concern coming dead last, to the point where a note was made of it. If Spencer's tank is an issue, which is something we've suspected all along, then he'll struggle to play games in this day and age, with the limited rotations.

That said, the 2km run probably isn't one he needs to excel at. He'll be looking to do well with repeat sprint drills or something along those lines.

It is a concern if we're questioning the tank of both White and Lee. We can't carry both.
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A "tank" isn't a physical attribute though. Its fitness training. Pure and simple hard work. Some kids struggle to endure the training needed to improve though. But just playing footy at a high level year after year should give him some level of improvement.
 
I've watched a lot of White VFL/AFL.... As nice as his glimpses are, that he's shown... He is inconsistent with effort and impact throughout games.

He can go missing for massive periods, and when he does he he's a liability because he has no defensive ability. His offensive ability when he gets a sniff is ok... But he needs to make many more contests.

His debut game in the AFL was typical, no involvement for long periods then creates a few opportunities... If he tasked them he is seen to have a good game... He doesn't work though. He plays KPF like a small fwd in the sense that he doesn't crash packs or make contests or hit up as a target... He is opportunistic.

He is the opposite to Riewoldt in the way he plays
 
We all want Spencer to excel but it seems the reality like a lot of younger men they simply dont have the work ethic to significantly improve. I must say though Seb Ross couldnt run out of sight on a dark night when he arrived, but with hard work he has improved dramatically with his runnng this year! Lets hope Spencer continues ti improve!
 

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Big Mart said:
I've watched a lot of White VFL/AFL.... As nice as his glimpses are, that he's shown... He is inconsistent with effort and impact throughout games.

He can go missing for massive periods, and when he does he he's a liability because he has no defensive ability. His offensive ability when he gets a sniff is ok... But he needs to make many more contests.

His debut game in the AFL was typical, no involvement for long periods then creates a few opportunities... If he tasked them he is seen to have a good game... He doesn't work though. He plays KPF like a small fwd in the sense that he doesn't crash packs or make contests or hit up as a target... He is opportunistic.

He is the opposite to Riewoldt in the way he plays
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He's also never had a full preseason, as plenty on here have already alluded to.
 
It's not a good sign for White, but realistically I'd give him lots if time. Have him stocked away as the last guy on the list, give him specifics to work on and just judge him on those in the short-term. I don't see him being an AFL-level player for a while yet, but he can still come good a year or more from now, and I think that was always understood when that gamble was taken.
 
He has definite attributes.... A 6'4" athlete is pretty rare... But he has plenty to work on....
 
ike2112 said:
It's not a good sign for White, but realistically I'd give him lots if time. Have him stocked away as the last guy on the list, give him specifics to work on and just judge him on those in the short-term. I don't see him being an AFL-level player for a while yet, but he can still come good a year or more from now, and I think that was always understood when that gamble was taken.
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He's still a kid. I remember watching Tipett and Walker one night at the dome and just couldn't see how they were going to make it early on. Both looked soft and avoided contact. Neither worked hard to make position or defend. A few years later they were looking like guns. KPFs take time. Bulldogs just paid a kings ransom for a guy who has shown less at AFL level.
 
White did get some opportunistic type goals against Richmond, but he also dropped about 5 marks that he would usually swallow (I think a combo of first game nerves, exhaustion- he was chasing tail from the first few mins of the game, and I think would have been buggered from that point on- and then it rained late in the game, making the ball slippery), so he could have had a much better game than he did have, even though he kicked 3 goals.

I was also watching some of the replay a week or two ago and I heard them say in commentary that he put on a few other good leads, but was ignored, when they thought we should have gone through him, so it had the potential to have been an ever better game again, had we looked for him a bit more (as we probably will once he's played more and we have more confidence in him).

There is a heap to work with there, but as we all know full well, there is also plenty to work on.
 
I just went back and watched that game again and I have to agree that Spencer just looks like a natural forward. His ability to create separation on the lead was very good and went unrewarded. In any one on one contests he uses his body with great aggression and effect. Very confident in his kicking on goal. Interestingly, he was much more prominent than Stanley, who was eventually subbed off.

However, he has no defensive mindset, and the Tigers recognized it so whoever was playing on White spread hard on turnover knowing that he would be unmarked and able to receive over the top. Whenever his initial lead wasn't honored he didn't have the ability to double back and go again with the same gusto like we have seen Roo do for ten plus years.

Overall, I think as his body matures he will become a real powerhouse out of the square. Definitely a keeper and plenty to like even without top end endurance.

As an aside I also noticed Lenny Hayes ability to be third man up in the ruck and offer timely support. Is there anyone in the young brigade who is capable of doing the same?
 
Wasn't Walker good from the get go?

He was impressive in his first year at AFL level and dominated The SANFL?

He was a big power fwd, more like McCartin
 
Big Mart said:
Wasn't Walker good from the get go?

He was impressive in his first year at AFL level and dominated The SANFL?

He was a big power fwd, more like McCartin
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Walker underwhelmed until 2012.

Not AFL ready, like White. Dominated a few SANFL games for sure. But took a while to get fit & learn about defence.
 
Just on walker again, sorry to differ but he'd kicked 90 games in his first 42 games and 12ppg as a young key fwd. And won a club goal kicking in 13 games?
I'd be happy if Paddy did the same

For a NSW scholarship player taken at 75 in the draft... Not bad.

He kicked 56 goals as a 17yo in the SANFL
 

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Big Mart said:
Just on walker again, sorry to differ but he'd kicked 90 games in his first 42 games and 12ppg as a young key fwd. And won a club goal kicking in 13 games?
I'd be happy if Paddy did the same

For a NSW scholarship player taken at 75 in the draft... Not bad.

He kicked 56 goals as a 17yo in the SANFL
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I'm not sure what he was like early as I was just going from the observations from one night. Tippett and Walker didn't work hard, avoided contact and hardly did anything despite the ball coming in regularly. I thought they looked like lazy spuds. A few years later they were a very good combo. I think Spencer could be anything. Some claim a one year contract says the Saints don't rate him. I would suggest his manager probably said don't sign any long term contract because the $100,000 per year could have a zero on the end if you kick enough goals. Lee was going at over 2 goals a game in his first season with us and most seem to think he's a spud.
 
gringo2011 said:
Lee was going at over 2 goals a game in his first season with us and most seem to think he's a spud.
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What you said has actually got me thinking, and I want to pose an open question.

What kind of performance will Spencer need to have in 2015, in order to be considered:

a) Still very raw/potential delistment in coming year or two.

b) A solid prospect that is progressing along nicely

c) A future gun/Barrells passing out due to a lack of blood to the brain after his entire circulation is redirected to *ahem* a particular appendage, at the thought of an amazing tall in the making.
 
25 goals. At least 15 games. Would be a credit mark for mine.
 
Yes he still has a lot to learn. He has to improve his defensive game and fitness.
He is a fwd. His main job is to kick goals.
Doesnt matter if they are 50mt torps from the boundary line or from "Joe the Goose" hanballs . Hes just gotta kick em. And so far he has.
2 games , 4 goals.
So thats a bloody good start so far.
 
Personally I think he's in for a rough year in terms of AFL game time. But I would not be concerned by that; its why I'm saying I would think the coaches will give him individual performance-based targets.

I think the club originally recruited Josh Bruce to be a defender; it was clear in 2013 (actually from 2011) the club needed KPD both immediate cover and longer-term prospects, so they got Bruce and Delaney in the hope one could fill in just now. Delaney looks good for that.
Now it looks as though they see Bruce as having just as much potential as a forward, and overall that would be more valuable than a defender. Especially since Goddard fell to us in the draft. Also Bruce has some possible ruck ability. His efforts are high, and he likes the physicality. So I reckon they saw him as the immediate-term replacement for Stanley's slot of fwd/ruck, and he is good enough and fit enough to play 20+ games without the staff needing to worry about him too much. Also Roo isn't going anywhere soon.

So if all are fit, I think we're playing Roo and Bruce as talls. Eli and Billings as smalls (mixed in with Saad if his body is ok). And depending on the game, we play 2 mids rotating through up there, or Lee - realistically last season we played a few games with 4 players up, and most of them with only 5 playing truly in the forward line.
Towards the last 8 games this year, I'd say McCartin or White gets a good run - by then I actually suspect McCartin to be more able to play his role, than White play his. Simply because McCartin's role is easier, and his body in better nick for it. We are asking White, who is a project, to play a difficult job and in a difficult style that few others have managed. In fact now I really think about it, we're likely to give Roo a week off when we travel to WA, so pencil that week in for potentially Paddy and White both playing, whenever it is.

Its worth bearing in mind though, that we no longer have a veteran stop-gap. This is why I was ok with the club considering McKernan in the rookie draft - if he had some life about him then I'd have rather seen him as injury cover for Roo than us having to play an undercooked White/McCartin or play Simpkin up there again.
Likewise at the back we're still a man short on depth in the key position. If Delaney turns an ankle during NAB Cup then we're either playing Simpkin on a key forward, Roberton perhaps, or Goddard get thrown in whether he is ready or not.

That concerns me for development. I don't want to see Goddard, White or McCartin playing until they are ready and unless they have earnt it. I really hope Delaney, Fisher, Roo and Bruce stay healthy.
 
Strahany said:
What you said has actually got me thinking, and I want to pose an open question.

What kind of performance will Spencer need to have in 2015, in order to be considered:

a) Still very raw/potential delistment in coming year or two.

b) A solid prospect that is progressing along nicely

c) A future gun/Barrells passing out due to a lack of blood to the brain after his entire circulation is redirected to *ahem* a particular appendage, at the thought of an amazing tall in the making.
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Meh.

I'm a midfielder man now.
 
The write up in the age suggests that 17 players ran PB's in the recent time trial and the rest ran between 1 and 4 seconds off their PB. So maybe White isn't as underdone as we all think. Also if Adam Basil can help Spencer find another 5% top end speed he could be really damaging, especially running forward into space.

The competition for a spot in the forward line is starting to heat up though. Riewoldt, Lee, White, Billings, Saad, Scneider, McPaddy, Lonie, resting Ruck, Membrey, and throw in Goddard2.0 and Bruce for good measure.

Wouldn't it be nice if Hickey/Bruce/Goddard could rotate with the first two sharing ruck duties?
 
I imagine our forward line structure will be Roo playing his role from last year, Bruce will play the Stanley role and White will start as the third tall. Lee could start ahead of White in that role if pre-season form dictates.

All three will rotate between deep forward and higher up the ground.

We looked at our best last year playing 3 talls. I imagine Membrey will play as a medium forward and not as a tall.

Lee and White competing for the same spot, unless Lee is trialled in defence.

McCartin may get a look in if White isn't up to it.
 
Ian Dunross said:
I imagine our forward line structure will be Roo playing his role from last year, Bruce will play the Stanley role and White will start as the third tall. Lee could start ahead of White in that role if pre-season form dictates.

All three will rotate between deep forward and higher up the ground.

We looked at our best last year playing 3 talls. I imagine Membrey will play as a medium forward and not as a tall.

Lee and White competing for the same spot, unless Lee is trialled in defence.

McCartin may get a look in if White isn't up to it.
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HF: Curren - Riewoldt - Billings
FF: Membrey - Bruce - White

Something like that?
 
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