Toast Standalone VFL side (2016) and Moorabbin Redevelopment

[Defacto]

i thought it would be a good idea to have a thread for these two topics and keep it separate to the junction oval redevelopment thread which is a different issue (mods feel free to delete this thread if you like)

today it was announced that the victorian state government would provide $8m for the redevelopment of moorabbin. moorabbin will host our new standalone VFL side from 2016 onwards and also provide a home for the sandringham dragons TAC Cup side, the Southern Football League and the South Metro Junior Football League.

here is our clubs response:

The St Kilda Football Club welcomes today’s announcement from the State Government of an $8 million contribution to the redevelopment of the Moorabbin Community Reserve.

This contribution will see a significant development of facilities at Moorabbin as Linton St is enhanced as a home for the Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup team, the Southern Football League and the South Metro Junior Football League.

It will also become the centre of football development in the bayside region, from Auskick, school football, women’s football and AFL 9s through to coaching and volunteer education.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-05-03/saints-welcome-moorabbin-funding

here is AFL Victorias response:

AFL Victoria welcomes today’s announcement from the Victorian State Government of an $8 million contribution to the redevelopment of the Moorabbin Community Reserve.
Football in Melbourne’s southeast will benefit significantly from the funding allocated in the 2014/15 State Budget that will result in a new headquarters for football bodies that service 15,000 players and their families, as well the volunteers that support these clubs.

AFL Victoria has been chairing a working party with the projects’ key stakeholders, including the local community leagues, the AFL, St Kilda Football Club and the Kingston Council, to collaboratively plan for the revitalisation of Moorabbin Community Reserve.

This announcement is a great endorsement of that collaborative planning approach.

http://www.aflvic.com.au/afl-victoria-backs-moorabbin-redevelopment/

this is an amazing result for everyone involved and shows what is possible when the community comes together to provide facilities and services for the public. i think its fantastic that we have community football, especially junior football, involved in our return back to moorabbin. to share our home with them and to in turn have the opportunity to form a closer bond with them should not be under-estimated.

the club should be congratulated for their approach of forming closer bonds with the community. this is just another step in the right direction. our club should be congratulated for all the work they have done behind the scenes, collaborating with various stakeholder to ensure this shared vision can now become a reality.

lastly, how good is it going to be to have our own VFL side, in saints colors running out onto moorabbin again. i cant wait for the first win when the players will have the chance to sing out our song, maybe even have it played at the ground. the affect this has cannot be underestimated, new recruits developing in the VFL will now be able to wear our colors and be able to sing our song!!!!!

 

[Defacto]

other thing i would say, is a big hats off and thank you to our own Rahul who broke the news yesterdat and then made it down to moorabbin very early this morning to cover the presser and provide tweets for us!!! great job mate!!!

 

[Sunshine Saint]

That is a sensational development. Doesn't this just add to our focus on being the bayside club, where we have a presence right along the bay?

If the state government has committed $8 million, you would also have to think that there are AFL, AFL Victoria, Local Council monies coming as well, before the club has to put their hand in their pocket for their contribution.

With Moorabbin being a hub of football, football development and related activities, St Kilda once again reinforces the key message that it is:

"More than a Football Club"

 

[sverik25]

Great news! Something I noticed though, was that the club didn't specifically state much about the St Kilda VFL team in their statement. I wonder if the VFL plans have been affected somehow?

 

[VDS66]

Given the shortage of $$$ the pollies keep crying about... I smell and election this year.

 

[Dopey BJ]

Great news! Something I noticed though, was that the club didn't specifically state much about the St Kilda VFL team in their statement. I wonder if the VFL plans have been affected somehow?

This is also an important step for the club’s plans to have a future standalone St Kilda VFL team based out of Moorabbin, as articulated in our “Road to 2018” strategic plan.”

From the Saints statement

 

[sverik25]

This is also an important step for the club’s plans to have a future standalone St Kilda VFL team based out of Moorabbin, as articulated in our “Road to 2018” strategic plan.”

From the Saints statement

Hmmm, just seemed odd it that they didn't reiterate it in the statement issued today.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Another benefit I've thought about, is playing retirees.

Take for example, somebody like Milney. Milne just kicked 9 goals in an inter-league game down in Bendigo - not a bad effort at all. I don't think there's any doubt that he could well continue as a VFL forward, even if the AFL is a bit beyond him now. Plonk him down in the VFL Saints, he'll encourage crowds to those games at Moorabbin (and as I've said before, we may well get more money from 5000 at Moorabbin than we get for 30,000 at Etihad!). Moreover, he'd get to train the next generation of small forwards, treating it as a stepping stone into player-coaching, which is probably where somebody like him wants to go in the end.

I think Hayes would be a terrific candidate for this approach come 2016. I think him leading the charge on field at the VFL Saints at Moorabbin would be great for him, great for the upcoming players, and a really popular thing with fans (=bums on seats). Win-win-win.

 

[Persevering Saint]

So, say we get to the point that, for a 30-man VFL squad, we had about 15-20 AFL players rotating through, say 3-4 Saints vets just out of the AFL, and then a string of our NZ scholarship players learning the caper with us (as I've said, this gives them the chance to learn our structures and club-pride without being in the AFL salary cap), then we'd be off to the races!

 

[cooperrules]

Maybe they could have

i thought it would be a good idea to have a thread for these two topics and keep it separate to the junction oval redevelopment thread which is a different issue (mods feel free to delete this thread if you like)

today it was announced that the victorian state government would provide $8m for the redevelopment of moorabbin. moorabbin will host our new standalone VFL side from 2016 onwards and also provide a home for the sandringham dragons TAC Cup side, the Southern Football League and the South Metro Junior Football League.

here is our clubs response:


http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-05-03/saints-welcome-moorabbin-funding

here is AFL Victorias response:


http://www.aflvic.com.au/afl-victoria-backs-moorabbin-redevelopment/

this is an amazing result for everyone involved and shows what is possible when the community comes together to provide facilities and services for the public. i think its fantastic that we have community football, especially junior football, involved in our return back to moorabbin. to share our home with them and to in turn have the opportunity to form a closer bond with them should not be under-estimated.

the club should be congratulated for their approach of forming closer bonds with the community. this is just another step in the right direction. our club should be congratulated for all the work they have done behind the scenes, collaborating with various stakeholder to ensure this shared vision can now become a reality.

lastly, how good is it going to be to have our own VFL side, in saints colors running out onto moorabbin again. i cant wait for the first win when the players will have the chance to sing out our song, maybe even have it played at the ground. the affect this has cannot be underestimated, new recruits developing in the VFL will now be able to wear our colors and be able to sing our song!!!!!

Maybe they could allocate an area in change rooms for the fans/members to come in and sing the song with the players. This would be a first I would imagine. Can someone who has an inside contact pass this on. I know my 5 year old son would be over the moon if he could sing and experience the song with his heroes.

 

[Nutsngum]

Imagine our side if we were stand alone?

On the weekend

Jones, Ross, TDL, White, Simpkin, Milera, Wright, Dunnell, Minchington, Pierce, Holmes.

Were available? Holmes injured first quarter...

And who else would play? Do we have 11 unlisted players on our payroll??
Where do they play when we don't have 12 injured players?
Do they train with us?

I don't see how it would be at all feasible?

Do we have a development team?

Do players play local footy when not playing... What players/local clubs would be happy with players bouncing like that.

Or do we have significant senior players (like Lower at Footscray) who would play before the last 10 on your list?

Really, I don't see it any different to Sandy... Where we would have been smashed for 4 years if not for
Magner, Marigliani, Cockie, Cooke, Gallagher, Irving, Shephard, Munro and such?
Right now, Adam Cockie is by so far the best played at Sandy it's silly

Ah, we will be from 2016 onwards.

We would have a list of VFL only players. Yes they would train with us.
No we probably wont have a development team. Yes they do play local footy if not playing.

We do it because we can only play a limited amount of our guys in the sandy side. When fit we could easily field another 22 player team, something we cant do at the moment.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I maintain that we will have a steady string of NZ internationals by then. And I also suspect that Lenny and a handful of veterans would be willing to come out now and then if things got dire. That'd turn the lack of players from a turn-off for fans, to a lovely bit of nostalgia to swing the turnstiles.

 

[Big Mart]

You seriously think Lenny in his mid 30s after 300 AFL games... Would pull on a VFL jumper mid season on a wintery VFL oval to fill in?

This is a statewide comp the VFL it's not the southern footy league 3 rd division.

The 'supplementary players could not train with the full time team.
1/ they would have to have proper jobs and could not possibly be at Seaford for 4 hours 3 times a week during the day.
2/ would AR be happy having nearly 60 players training? A dozen or so not AFL standard.

There are as many complications with a stand alone team as an affiliation

 

[Periphery]

Are you against St Kilda having a stand alone VFL team?

 

[saintsrfreak]

Stand alone teams seem to work for just about every other team in the competition.

 

[Persevering Saint]

You seriously think Lenny in his mid 30s after 300 AFL games... Would pull on a VFL jumper mid season on a wintery VFL oval to fill in?

This is a statewide comp the VFL it's not the southern footy league 3 rd division.

The 'supplementary players could not train with the full time team.
1/ they would have to have proper jobs and could not possibly be at Seaford for 4 hours 3 times a week during the day.
2/ would AR be happy having nearly 60 players training? A dozen or so not AFL standard.

There are as many complications with a stand alone team as an affiliation

Yeah, as a matter of fact, I do, at least for the first few years.

And I find your argument rather confusing, especially since there seem to be plenty of other clubs - Geelong, Essendon, Collingwood, etc, etc, - who seem to manage a standalone VFL team without any problems. In fact, most of the clubs that HAVE done affiliates jumped ship and went standalone long before we did.

I can only thus assume that you think one of two things:

1. All the other teams were idiots, and their decision was wrong - and thus, clubs that attribute having a standalone VFL team as part of their AFL success (Geelong, Collingwood) are deluded, and that it was entirely coincidental to their success.
2. Or, the St Kilda Football Club is somehow less capable of running a VFL team, than other clubs. That we are inferior, or too weak, too inadequate to do so.

Which is it?

Oh, and btw, the "Reply" button is that NICE little one to the bottom-right of this post, okay?

 

[dsav]

Current AFL cub thinking is demonstrated by actions - more Victorian clubs setting up separate VFL squads than not.
It indicates to me that the professionals must see an advantage (although there is the one standout that makes an alignment work well).

It's not without problems however, as I think Big Mart is pointing out.
I've been at both Essendon and Richmond this year as they started on this journey.
Both clubs have had to invest substantial resources into the establishment of the VFL squads (players, staff and equipment).
A stand-alone team from an AFL club also I believe costs more in VFL licence fees (anyone have the numbers?).

AFL aligned clubs do run separate training sessions for the VFL squads in the evenings - as Big Mart pointed out, most have jobs.

I'm not silly enough to not back the decision makers in going stand-alone.
I do hope however we don't divert time and resources during a rebuild period when budgets are already tight at St Kilda.

I'll trust those making the big calls however.

Hey - at least Moorabbin will have money spent to become a footy hub once again.

Dave.

 

[Big Mart]

Dsav

Have you always trusted those making the calls? Me, given our historical performance... Always remain skeptical and question everything.

Big fan of having our own VFL team

Questions
Players, Ground, Finances, Resources?

PS
The clubs you listed are the biggest clubs in the AFL
Geelong have an entire community, an AFL standard facility and amazing administration a resources to back their VFL team. They have won three premierships as a VFL unit in the last decade and are now powerhouse in the AFL.

Eg,
Their coaching ranks on Sunday were
Matthew Knights, Nigel Lappin, Blake Caracella, Troy Selwood

Essendon
Their VFL side has struggled, but they are an extremely resourceful club

Collingwood
Seriously, besides the fact they (VFL team) aren't much chop... They can easily afford to throw money there... Vic Park used as ground

Richmond
They are hopeless, but again another massive club... With Punt Rd re-developed.

Footscray
Doing Very well
Mainly due to drafting a lot of talent over the last few years... And having a number of players very equal from 12 to 32 on their list.. They have a talented team. Very lucky injury list has seen them field between 15-18 AFL listed players weekly, as they did vs Sandy (18)
Financially it is a huge burden for them... Whitten oval is now redeveloped


At full strength .... Sandy are a very strong outfit. Currently missing up to a dozen players.

 

[kernelT]

Me, given our historical performance... Always remain skeptical and question everything.

Actually, you just bag the club at every single turn… but rarely offer up any viable alternative options.

Seems pretty clear that having complete control of your developing players and reserves team is highly regarded as an essential element to a successful club these days…

We are aiming to win a flag at some stage, the club has identified that having a stand-alone VFL side will help us develop, I'm tipping that the admin has considered contingency plans for injuries regarding finding enough players, probably crunched a few numbers too…

 

[Nutsngum]

Actually, you just bag the club at every single turn… but rarely offer up any viable alternative options.

Seems pretty clear that having complete control of your developing players and reserves team is highly regarded as an essential element to a successful club these days…

We are aiming to win a flag at some stage, the club has identified that having a stand-alone VFL side will help us develop, I'm tipping that the admin has considered contingency plans for injuries regarding finding enough players, probably crunched a few numbers too…

Im pretty sure were just going to have the guys call up mates at 9:30 on saturday morning asking if anyone wants to have a game of footy. Yeah its okay if you have to wear runners, no worries mate well have a durrie before the game.

 

[Persevering Saint]

And I find your argument rather confusing, especially since there seem to be plenty of other clubs - Geelong, Essendon, Collingwood, etc, etc, - who seem to manage a standalone VFL team without any problems. In fact, most of the clubs that HAVE done affiliates jumped ship and went standalone long before we did.

I can only thus assume that you think one of two things:

1. All the other teams were idiots, and their decision was wrong - and thus, clubs that attribute having a standalone VFL team as part of their AFL success (Geelong, Collingwood) are deluded, and that it was entirely coincidental to their success.
2. Or, the St Kilda Football Club is somehow less capable of running a VFL team, than other clubs. That we are inferior, or too weak, too inadequate to do so.

Which is it?

PS
The clubs you listed are the biggest clubs in the AFL
Geelong have an entire community, an AFL standard facility and amazing administration a resources to back their VFL team. They have won three premierships as a VFL unit in the last decade and are now powerhouse in the AFL.

Eg,
Their coaching ranks on Sunday were
Matthew Knights, Nigel Lappin, Blake Caracella, Troy Selwood

Essendon
Their VFL side has struggled, but they are an extremely resourceful club

Collingwood
Seriously, besides the fact they (VFL team) aren't much chop... They can easily afford to throw money there... Vic Park used as ground

Richmond
They are hopeless, but again another massive club... With Punt Rd re-developed.

Footscray
Doing Very well
Mainly due to drafting a lot of talent over the last few years... And having a number of players very equal from 12 to 32 on their list.. They have a talented team. Very lucky injury list has seen them field between 15-18 AFL listed players weekly, as they did vs Sandy (18)
Financially it is a huge burden for them... Whitten oval is now redeveloped.

Right, so what you're saying is, you think it's option 2. You think that us poor little Sainters can't keep up with the big-boys like Collingwood, Geelong, Essendon and Richmond.

Well, that's why I'm glad as hell that Chris Pelchen has come to the St Kilda Football Club. To save us from the mediocrity-complex that this very thinking represents. For too long, we have listened to the other clubs telling us to lick the dirt on their shoes, and to like it. But Pelch is on a mission, commissioned by Allan Jeans himself, to give us the power to say, "NO. NOT ANY MORE."

Chris Pelchen has come to St Kilda to make us a professional powerclub, to wrench us into all that our potential offers us. We have exclusive geographic rights to the hearts and minds of a gigantic contingent of the footy-following community, along the eastern seaboard of Melbourne. The Pelican has worked, since he walked through the door, to make us the kind of club that can turn that latent potential into members.

Since Pelch came as Director of Football in 2011, he has:

1. He has worked with Bains and Trout, as their boss, directing them in drafting, to save us from the debacle that was John Peake.
2. He has made us one of the most ruthless, effective, and productive traders in the game, getting us five players for virtually nothing over the 2013 trade week, that all were integral to our win against Freo.
3. He has worked tirelessly, and courageously (Goddard, Dal, McEvoy) to completely resurrect our list, from virtually dead-and-gone to one that shows potential of playing finals again in only a few years' time.
4. He has focussed on character in the new players, to eradicate player-behaviour that was so bad, that it damaged our brand during a time of massive on-field success, that never translated to the members and sponsors it should have.
   
5. He has instituted innovative drafting programs, such as a Father-Son program (or are the "big" clubs the only ones "worthy" of doing that, too?), and getting us a dead-set gun International Rookie in Holmes.
6. He has worked to make the most of the NZ opportunity, largely off his own bat at first, to get us NZ rookies, and Savage. If NZ succeeds, it'll probably be in large part because Pelch got NZ players to help it.
7. He has got us to international altitude training in Boulder, something that usually only the bigger clubs can do. Oh wait, that's because he wants us to start thinking that WE are a big club, and won't settle for anything less.
   
8. And, as this thread has been discussing, he has pushed us to have the same standards as the big clubs, to have our own VFL team, and has worked to maximise its potential by getting us back to Moorabbin.
9. He has completely overhauled our player contract strategy, allowing for a more even payment list - so that we don't end up spending a crazy fortune on our top 6 and consequently can only afford nufties for our bottom 6. That's why BJ left, because Pelch stopped the "cash for the boys" garbage.
   
10. Sure, he was in involved in the hiring of Watters, but Watters had LOTS of people fooled, and on paper Scott was a good appointment at first. At least he got us Richo, despite Richo saying he wouldn't take the job at first.

And yet you are absolutely certain he's bad for the club, and should go.

Pelch has achieved more for this club in 3 years, than everybody in the Saints admin has in a decade. He will save this club from it's own willingness to accept the bullying it gets from the wider league. Hell, he has already gone a long way to accomplishing that. I'd give him infinitely more of my time, and take what he says immeasurably more seriously, than anything that some constantly-critical, unconstructive, bullies' chump has to say.

 

[Sainttony]

Right, so what you're saying is, you think it's option 2. You think that us poor little Sainters can't keep up with the big-boys like Collingwood, Geelong, Essendon and Richmond.

Well, that's why I'm glad as hell that Chris Pelchen has come to the St Kilda Football Club. To save us from the mediocrity-complex that this very thinking represents. For too long, we have listened to the other clubs telling us to lick the dirt on their shoes, and to like it. But Pelch is on a mission, commissioned by Allan Jeans himself, to give us the power to say, "NO. NOT ANY MORE."

Chris Pelchen has come to St Kilda to make us a professional powerclub, to wrench us into all that our potential offers us. We have exclusive geographic rights to the hearts and minds of a gigantic contingent of the footy-following community, along the eastern seaboard of Melbourne. The Pelican has worked, since he walked through the door, to make us the kind of club that can turn that latent potential into members.

Since Pelch came as Director of Football in 2011, he has:

1. He has worked with Bains and Trout, as their boss, directing them in drafting, to save us from the debacle that was John Peake.
2. He has made us one of the most ruthless, effective, and productive traders in the game, getting us five players for virtually nothing over the 2013 trade week, that all were integral to our win against Freo.
3. He has worked tirelessly, and courageously (Goddard, Dal, McEvoy) to completely resurrect our list, from virtually dead-and-gone to one that shows potential of playing finals again in only a few years' time.
4. He has focussed on character in the new players, to eradicate player-behaviour that was so bad, that it damaged our brand during a time of massive on-field success, that never translated to the members and sponsors it should have.
   
5. He has instituted innovative drafting programs, such as a Father-Son program (or are the "big" clubs the only ones "worthy" of doing that, too?), and getting us a dead-set gun International Rookie in Holmes.
6. He has worked to make the most of the NZ opportunity, largely off his own bat at first, to get us NZ rookies, and Savage. If NZ succeeds, it'll probably be in large part because Pelch got NZ players to help it.
7. He has got us to international altitude training in Boulder, something that usually only the bigger clubs can do. Oh wait, that's because he wants us to start thinking that WE are a big club, and won't settle for anything less.
   
8. And, as this thread has been discussing, he has pushed us to have the same standards as the big clubs, to have our own VFL team, and has worked to maximise its potential by getting us back to Moorabbin.
9. He has completely overhauled our player contract strategy, allowing for a more even payment list - so that we don't end up spending a crazy fortune on our top 6 and consequently can only afford nufties for our bottom 6. That's why BJ left, because Pelch stopped the "cash for the boys" garbage.
   
10. Sure, he was in involved in the hiring of Watters, but Watters had LOTS of people fooled, and on paper Scott was a good appointment at first. At least he got us Richo, despite Richo saying he wouldn't take the job at first.

And yet you are absolutely certain he's bad for the club, and should go.

Pelch has achieved more for this club in 3 years, than everybody in the Saints admin has in a decade. He will save this club from it's own willingness to accept the bullying it gets from the wider league. Hell, he has already gone a long way to accomplishing that. I'd give him infinitely more of my time, and take what he says immeasurably more seriously, than anything that some constantly-critical, unconstructive, bullies' chump has to say.

Good post. To get rid of Pelchen now would be crazy. He is working to his plan and to my mind everything is going well.

 

[Defacto]

Right, so what you're saying is, you think it's option 2. You think that us poor little Sainters can't keep up with the big-boys like Collingwood, Geelong, Essendon and Richmond.

Well, that's why I'm glad as hell that Chris Pelchen has come to the St Kilda Football Club. To save us from the mediocrity-complex that this very thinking represents. For too long, we have listened to the other clubs telling us to lick the dirt on their shoes, and to like it. But Pelch is on a mission, commissioned by Allan Jeans himself, to give us the power to say, "NO. NOT ANY MORE."

Chris Pelchen has come to St Kilda to make us a professional powerclub, to wrench us into all that our potential offers us. We have exclusive geographic rights to the hearts and minds of a gigantic contingent of the footy-following community, along the eastern seaboard of Melbourne. The Pelican has worked, since he walked through the door, to make us the kind of club that can turn that latent potential into members.

Since Pelch came as Director of Football in 2011, he has:

1. He has worked with Bains and Trout, as their boss, directing them in drafting, to save us from the debacle that was John Peake.
2. He has made us one of the most ruthless, effective, and productive traders in the game, getting us five players for virtually nothing over the 2013 trade week, that all were integral to our win against Freo.
3. He has worked tirelessly, and courageously (Goddard, Dal, McEvoy) to completely resurrect our list, from virtually dead-and-gone to one that shows potential of playing finals again in only a few years' time.
4. He has focussed on character in the new players, to eradicate player-behaviour that was so bad, that it damaged our brand during a time of massive on-field success, that never translated to the members and sponsors it should have.
   
5. He has instituted innovative drafting programs, such as a Father-Son program (or are the "big" clubs the only ones "worthy" of doing that, too?), and getting us a dead-set gun International Rookie in Holmes.
6. He has worked to make the most of the NZ opportunity, largely off his own bat at first, to get us NZ rookies, and Savage. If NZ succeeds, it'll probably be in large part because Pelch got NZ players to help it.
7. He has got us to international altitude training in Boulder, something that usually only the bigger clubs can do. Oh wait, that's because he wants us to start thinking that WE are a big club, and won't settle for anything less.
   
8. And, as this thread has been discussing, he has pushed us to have the same standards as the big clubs, to have our own VFL team, and has worked to maximise its potential by getting us back to Moorabbin.
9. He has completely overhauled our player contract strategy, allowing for a more even payment list - so that we don't end up spending a crazy fortune on our top 6 and consequently can only afford nufties for our bottom 6. That's why BJ left, because Pelch stopped the "cash for the boys" garbage.
   
10. Sure, he was in involved in the hiring of Watters, but Watters had LOTS of people fooled, and on paper Scott was a good appointment at first. At least he got us Richo, despite Richo saying he wouldn't take the job at first.

And yet you are absolutely certain he's bad for the club, and should go.

Pelch has achieved more for this club in 3 years, than everybody in the Saints admin has in a decade. He will save this club from it's own willingness to accept the bullying it gets from the wider league. Hell, he has already gone a long way to accomplishing that. I'd give him infinitely more of my time, and take what he says immeasurably more seriously, than anything that some constantly-critical, unconstructive, bullies' chump has to say.

great post mate!!!

you can add making up 10 years on the father son stuff too and the development program

 

[Persevering Saint]

great post mate!!!

you can add making up 10 years on the father son stuff too and the development program

Um, see point 5?

 

[Defacto]

Um, see point 5?

whoops my bad. lets forget this convo ever occurred. carry on...