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Change will never come about if people just think and act as you've described. That's what the majors want us to do.

It means the cycle is never broken.

The last election 25% of the population didn't vote for the majors.

Yes but they didn't vote for the same minor parties and those minor parties will never come together.

Don't get me wrong though. Me lamenting major parties doesn't mean that one of the major parties doesn't better represent me than other parties, they're just not as representative as I'd like them to be.
 
Yes but they didn't vote for the same minor parties and those minor parties will never come together.

Don't get me wrong though. Me lamenting major parties doesn't mean that one of the major parties doesn't better represent me than other parties, they're just not as representative as I'd like them to be.

And they never will be.
 

Sprout

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Large scale tax reform is the big ticket item. Whoever has the balls to tackle it head on will see themselves in a great position to win office and retain it.

Not sure about the complaints on education and the environment. Labor's policies were fairly ambitious in both areas. It's our current "leader" who wants to strip us back to square one. I don't think the other mob should be lumped in with Tony's regressive idealism.

We absolutely do lack leadership at the federal level. To an alarming degree. I think it was Waleed Aly who described Shorten as possibly becoming the most anonymous man to ever be elected prime minister, which is a statement about his role in opposition as much as his leadership qualities.

But our political parties are something of a reflection of where we are at as a society: deeply and bitterly divided. I'd like to say it's going to get better before it gets worse.

Getting Tony Abbott out of politics will be a good start.
 

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rodney hoo

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Oct 24, 2014
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Democracy is not perfect but there has been no better system to date, we should have a look at the New Zealand system it seems to work better & was changed some time back I think.
I also think the ALP should stuck with Gillard no matter if they lost more seats, Rudd was cancer and should been chucked out. Same with Abbott you can lie & lie but eventually people will look closer & say what the f..k, he was brainless attack dog that had every handed to him, Australia does not like elites. As much as my dislike of Howard he was a steady hand & as soon as he had the senate he brought in work choices & was turfed.
Our next generation of politicians have to put Australian jobs first & reap the reward. Again Shorten not my preferred man but might be right person at the right time just like howard, steady as she goes but I really wish they'd picked Alboneze.
 
We absolutely do lack leadership at the federal level. To an alarming degree. I think it was Waleed Aly who described Shorten as possibly becoming the most anonymous man to ever be elected prime minister, which is a statement about his role in opposition as much as his leadership qualities.
He's just playing the small target game. It's what you have to do to get elected and it stinks.
 
Aug 21, 2011
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Honestly believe there is talent in both ALP and Lib ranks, the problem is we are perhaps another two full terms from seeing that talent peaking and getting into influential positions.

I also do think people have every right to not vote for anyone and I don't blame them for their frustration either. It honestly feels like both majors have fallen into the trap of lowest common denominator vote winners minus the vision. On the other hand, people vote in bellends like Palmer on the 'anti-politics' ticket, not because they provide an alternative, just because they're able to captialise on the frustration on the major two.
 

Pessimistic

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Anyone who campaigned stongly on winding back the fining culture, particularly in victoria would get my vote.

Its an insidious evil spreading its roots like weeds
 

Contra Mundum

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While I enjoy the self destruction of Tone, Newman and poor old Dennis Naphthine this volatility is bad for the polity. If the tendency is for all parties to play the electoral cycle and be in election mode continously - all the terrible short termism which is killing our County can only be made worse by the revolving door approach to Government and incumbancy being a curse
 

Sprout

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While I enjoy the self destruction of Tone, Newman and poor old Dennis Naphthine this volatility is bad for the polity. If the tendency is for all parties to play the electoral cycle and be in election mode continously - all the terrible short termism which is killing our County can only be made worse by the revolving door approach to Government and incumbancy being a curse
Tony is a rare breed though. Only he could nosedive this quickly via unthinkably stupid decisions.
 

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While I enjoy the self destruction of Tone, Newman and poor old Dennis Naphthine this volatility is bad for the polity. If the tendency is for all parties to play the electoral cycle and be in election mode continously - all the terrible short termism which is killing our County can only be made worse by the revolving door approach to Government and incumbancy being a curse
I agree to a point however in terms of the three you mentioned:
Abbott and co. broke promises, introduced policies which the public thought were unfair. Went in too hard too quickly.
Newman - the selling of assets is what cost Labor and maybe he mimicked Abbott?
Naphine - wasted three years, achieved very little.
South Australia despite all their problems, still managed to get back into government plus achieve a 6% swing yesterday in a safe Liberal seat.

If there is a leader out there that can truly lead for all, take small steps in their first term and introduce change slowly I feel the public will accept them more readily.
Just not sure that to keep harping about reducing debt resonates as much as pollies think.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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For me Shorten as opp leader is a clone of Abbott, just without the pre-existing a-hole / nut job reputation.

He's got nothing to say of worth, no policies to talk about, he just waits for the govt to * up (it's never a long wait) then criticises them. Other than that it's all just contradictory bullshit "promises" which he'll have no choice but to break if (when) he gets in, where I'm positive he'll prove every bit as useless as Abbott.

Honestly believe there is talent in both ALP and Lib ranks, the problem is we are perhaps another two full terms from seeing that talent peaking and getting into influential positions.

I also do think people have every right to not vote for anyone and I don't blame them for their frustration either. It honestly feels like both majors have fallen into the trap of lowest common denominator vote winners minus the vision. On the other hand, people vote in bellends like Palmer on the 'anti-politics' ticket, not because they provide an alternative, just because they're able to captialise on the frustration on the major two.

Theres * all talent, and it's getting worse. They're all just clueless machine products straight off the production line: either study law / join Young Libs / work in MPs office or straight out of a union. None of them have any vision for the country nor beliefs, except for the party they worship and getting and keeping power. They have no connection with their electorates, they're handpicked by HQ and parachuted into seats. It's not going to stop because these same people run the parties and just keep "regenerating" it with clones of themselves. Youre either a party parrot or you're out - nobody with any ideas or brains is going to succeed.
 
They did when formulating their preferences in the Upper House and we have a group of independents now as a result.

I'm talking platform wise. That was a strategic coming together. You won't see the minors and independents consolidating their vote into one viable third party.
 

Total_Juddshanks

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While I enjoy the self destruction of Tone, Newman and poor old Dennis Naphthine this volatility is bad for the polity. If the tendency is for all parties to play the electoral cycle and be in election mode continously - all the terrible short termism which is killing our County can only be made worse by the revolving door approach to Government and incumbancy being a curse

I think this is very true. One of the most significant problems with the fairly mediocre calibre of leadership we've seen in recent times is the public is so furious with them that it removes the requirement for credible oppositions to have gotten themselves together before they get the keys to the lodge. This creates a very frightening cycle of mediocrity. The Victorian and Queensland elections are amazing not just for the first term results but because the two new premiers have CVs which would barely qualify them for shire councillor jobs.

I'm not sure there is a solution but the starting point has to be the media reflecting public sentiment and just flat out refusing to accept the kind of rubbish served up. I'm not talking about them changing political allegiances, but rather simple concrete things like

- subjecting politicians CVs and life experience to serious scrutiny and being absolutely merciless with career politicians and staffers off the union office/young libs conveyer belt.

- being much tougher with opposition leaders who fail to present a coherent plan of government, and more critical of people who scaremonger or oppose things which are obviously in the national interest without presenting a credible alternative approach. Place the onus of proof on oppositions to show they can be a credible government, and savage 'small target' campaigns as a passport to government.

- accept missteps and slips of tongue will happen, and are totally irrelevant to someone's competence. Conversely ream any politician who thinks it's acceptable to try and step up to a press conference with a page of key lines and nothing else.

It would be possible for a media outlet to take that approach without excluding their own particular viewpoint or bias. What is needed is a shared commitment to refuse to accept the shorthand tricks that cover for incompetence and underachievement in politics. That's not actually asking the media to do anything other than what the public wants.
 
Feb 6, 2013
12,443
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For me Shorten as opp leader is a clone of Abbott, just without the pre-existing a-hole / nut job reputation.

He's got nothing to say of worth, no policies to talk about, he just waits for the govt to **** up (it's never a long wait) then criticises them. Other than that it's all just contradictory bullshit "promises" which he'll have no choice but to break if (when) he gets in, where I'm positive he'll prove every bit as useless as Abbott.



Theres **** all talent, and it's getting worse. They're all just clueless machine products straight off the production line: either study law / join Young Libs / work in MPs office or straight out of a union. None of them have any vision for the country nor beliefs, except for the party they worship and getting and keeping power. They have no connection with their electorates, they're handpicked by HQ and parachuted into seats. It's not going to stop because these same people run the parties and just keep "regenerating" it with clones of themselves. Youre either a party parrot or you're out - nobody with any ideas or brains is going to succeed.
Yep. Politics might never have been that idealistic vision of a bunch of opinionated people coming together to build a better future, but now it's gotten to the point where the politicians exist to serve the parties ideology and interests regardless of the people's opinion.

Inspiring confidence in the electorate to get elected is seen as an inconvenience that is being treated with contempt.

When you look at the great politicians through history, politics was usually a necessary evil, a tool to be used. Nowadays too many politicians seem to value and thrive on politics itself instead of pragmatic goals.
 
Last edited:

CountryRace

Norm Smith Medallist
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Oct 25, 2014
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lysander-spooners-quotes-3.jpg
 
Need a name change. Basically a left/centre left perty even on many issues but can't afford to piss off that Christian Lobby too much. Seriously thou need a name change to be taken seriously.

If they want to change their image, they'd have to start by cutting their links with the sex industry. Given their newly elected MLC and leader Fiona Patten is the very closely tied to said industry, that's not going to happen.

Also, they recognise the value in having a name that disenfranchised and disinterested voters can giggle at and vote for as a joke.
 

screech

Club Legend
Jun 19, 2002
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I think this is very true. One of the most significant problems with the fairly mediocre calibre of leadership we've seen in recent times is the public is so furious with them that it removes the requirement for credible oppositions to have gotten themselves together before they get the keys to the lodge. This creates a very frightening cycle of mediocrity. The Victorian and Queensland elections are amazing not just for the first term results but because the two new premiers have CVs which would barely qualify them for shire councillor jobs.

I'm not sure there is a solution but the starting point has to be the media reflecting public sentiment and just flat out refusing to accept the kind of rubbish served up. I'm not talking about them changing political allegiances, but rather simple concrete things like

- subjecting politicians CVs and life experience to serious scrutiny and being absolutely merciless with career politicians and staffers off the union office/young libs conveyer belt.

- being much tougher with opposition leaders who fail to present a coherent plan of government, and more critical of people who scaremonger or oppose things which are obviously in the national interest without presenting a credible alternative approach. Place the onus of proof on oppositions to show they can be a credible government, and savage 'small target' campaigns as a passport to government.

- accept missteps and slips of tongue will happen, and are totally irrelevant to someone's competence. Conversely ream any politician who thinks it's acceptable to try and step up to a press conference with a page of key lines and nothing else.

It would be possible for a media outlet to take that approach without excluding their own particular viewpoint or bias. What is needed is a shared commitment to refuse to accept the shorthand tricks that cover for incompetence and underachievement in politics. That's not actually asking the media to do anything other than what the public wants.

Good post

Sadly, the closest the media comes to scrutinising candidates is pulling out an embarrassing comment made on Facebook back when they were a teenager or in their early 20s
 

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